Israel

[Andria]

I'm not sure how to word this to make sense..

I have been led to believe through a Bible lesson that we, Christians, are Israel. And I was told that it's not really a popular belief...that it gets people all up in arms...

I tried searching the forums but couldn't get anywhere very quickly.

Is the "popular belief" that the actual nation of Israel is "Israel"?

Oh boy, I hope this makes sense lol. Thanks for any input.

 

[Tlaloc]

So far as I've talked to people here I would say the popular view is that Christians are 'Grafted in'. Exactly what each person thinks that means varies greatly and I suspect some would come close to what you mean while some would be very far from it. As far as I've seen there is no one that takes the extreme of rejecting the idea of being grafted in , and I don' t know of anyone who has taken the other extreme of saying we replace Israel.

As to weather Israel is Israel, I don't think that has ever been discussed here before, and you're lack of search results seems to re-enforce that view. Perhaps this thread can be the first time.

 

[Lionking]

There is spiritual Israel, and there is natural Israel. Natural Israel are all those who are descendants of Abraham by the flesh. Spiritual Israel are all those who have the faith of Abraham who look forward to the day of Christ. Because of the faith of Abraham, GOD counted it to him for righteousness, Genesis 15:6 & Romans 4:3. Spiritual Israel are those who believe in the atoning sacrifice of Christ at the cross of Calvary.

Just as Abraham believed that GOD would have resurrected Isaac from the dead when GOD told him to sacrifice him, this was symbolic of Christ's own sacrifice. Isaac was the son of promise to Abraham, not Ishmael. Isaac's son was Jacob who the Lord changed his name to Israel who is the father of the twelve patriarchs, who were the fathers of the nation of Israel. Their descendants are the Israelites now called in present day, Israeli's. Romans 4:13 says of the gentiles, " For the promise that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or his seed (natural descendants), through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

Hebrews 11:17-19 says, (17) By faith, Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (18) Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: (19) Accounting that GOD was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

This is further confirmed in Paul's letter to the Galatians. In chapter 3 he says, " O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?"
Verses 6 & 7 says, (6)"Even as Abraham believed GOD, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (7) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."

Thus, we who believe that Christ died to redeem us from the degradation of sin are Israel.

 

[Lionking]

There is a thread that explains this in detail and i like how it was done. It's under the topic "Let's be clear" on the third page.

 

[ke4ke]

Basically the belief is that the Anglo-Saxon (Isaac's sons) and related peoples are the descendants of Jacob Israel. There is enough information on the subject to fill it's own museum. Then add the physical evidence spread all over the world. Plan on doing a lot of study and running into a lot of strange ideas on the way, but yes it is true. Amazing how the scripture starts making sense with the promises and the true grafting back in, the Prodigal son (house of Israel) and the placement of sons (not adoption -poor translation) of the two houses of Israel who come up out of the land (to new lands as promised by Nathan) under one head (Christ) and are called the sons of the living God (Christians) (Hosea 1)

For just the simplest of basics http://www.christianisrael.org/

"...wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the Ten Tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers." Flavius Josephus, historian and contemporary of the Apostle Peter.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

There are two types of Israelites or Jews in scripture

1. Physical Descendants of Abraham

2. Those who believe in the same God as Abraham and may or may not be his physical descendants

3. Fake Jews who reject the God of Abraham, and yet pretend to be religiously Jewish and may or may not be physical descendants of the God of Abraham.

You must be in category 2 to receive good eternal life. You do not need to be in category 1 to have good eternal life. Being in category 1 does not exclude you from good eternal life.

When reading the Bible you must figure out which type of Israelite it refers to individually on a verse by verse and passage by passage basis.

Some passages refer to type3 some to type 2 and others to type 1, and yet others to a combination.

It is very important to figure out which type or types it means, otherwise by substituting types it can create false doctrine that can lead to immense immorality.

A good example is for tithing the money must go to type 1 Levites (who hopefully are also type 2). That is why gentile pastor's (who are not type 1 but proclaim to be type 2) do not get a Biblical right to demand a 10% tithe for the congregation not to be cursed.

Another false doctrine is assuming someone will go to a good eternal life when they are a type 1 Jew, when actually they will end up in a lake of fire (if they do not change) because they are a type 1 and type 3 Jew instead of a type 1 and type 2 Jew.

the numbering is arbitrary, I just did it to save space.

This does not directly answer your question about Israel but will go a long way to helping you find the answer. This is because some people get the wrong answer because they only plug in one of the three types and ignore the other two. Or they plug in all three when it is only supposed to be one, etc.