Living out "Leviticus"

[nathan]

On my flight home from California this weekend, I read this article in Christianity Today (I get my dad's hand-me-downs), and couldn't help but think of all you here at BF that have participated (respectfully for the most part!) in the Law discussions. I haven't participated, not because I don't have any position, but because I respect many of the arguments made by those on most sides of this issue.

I think many of you will find this interesting - admittedly they lived it "symbolically", but still had some interesting results:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/august/13.30.html

(I'd copy the whole thing here, but I doubt that's copyright-friendly.)

 

[Anonymous]

Quote from the Christianity Today article:

Leviticus isn't in the Bible merely to show you your need for grace. It's in the Bible to show you what grace is for. The ancient Israelites were already chosen people before God gave them the Law. The Law's purpose was never to save anybody. Rather, its purpose was to show saved people how to live a saved life.

Wow. Just...wow.

 

[:-)]

Thanks for sharing the article, Nathan.

Some interesting observations and insights.

Djanakes posted one (for me) very important insight.

Here is another:

This post led me to attempt a congregational "Day of Atonement" (Lev. 16) during Lent (without the scapegoat of course). For Protestants unfamiliar with public confession, the practice proved to be a needed one. Many left with similar feelings of walking on air—as well as intentions to be more grounded in God—which is precisely what grace (and the Law) are supposed to do. I couldn't help but wonder why we tend to view obedience as so burdensome. Could it be that we've never really obeyed?

 

[Anonymous]

Quote from the Christianity Today article:

The Law's purpose was never to save anybody. Rather, its purpose was to show saved people how to live a saved life.

I couldn't help but wonder why we tend to view obedience as so burdensome. Could it be that we've never really obeyed?

The pharisee believers made the exact same "obedience" argument 2,000 years ago. It just sounds so good.

Acts 15:5: "And some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees, rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Torah of Mosheh."

Some have never obeyed, some have always obeyed, and some are still trying to obey to this day. The real question is what law are they in obedience to? Exactly which covenant (and they are different) do they think they are obeying?

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL that has been written in the book of the Torah, to do them.”

If they insist in trying to obey the Torah of the Old Covenant, they had better be very good at it.

We can hide behind lies but we can't hide fruit.

Love in Him,
David

 

[:-)]

Yep, can't be too careful!

Anyone who thinks he should not shave his beard because of the injunction in Leviticus better watch out! Or if someone should have the audacity to not eat unclean foods, well, that's really getting into dangerous territory there! And definitely, anybody who is so forsaken as to keep those holidays established by God Himself is definitely in trouble! Such people will without doubt be condemned at the Day of Judgement.

But those who have preferred the pagan holidays and rejected the guidelines given in the Torah - they will be exulted and praised!

Jesus most certainly did not say that he who teaches and does the least of the commandments shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. No, He couldn't have said that!

And Paul. the author of Galatians, he cannot have written 2 Tim. 3:16-17. No way!

These passages must have been slipped into the Scriptures by legalist moles! They can't be from the Spirit of God ...

... or can they?

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone who thinks he should not shave his beard because of the injunction in Leviticus better watch out! Or if someone should have the audacity to not eat unclean foods, well, that's really getting into dangerous territory there! And definitely, anybody who is so forsaken as to keep those holidays established by God Himself is definitely in trouble! Such people will without doubt be condemned at the Day of Judgement.

I think you're misunderstanding me here. I'm simply pointing out the fact that observing the Old Mosaic Covenant brings a curse, not that you aren't perfectly entitled to try to obey it if you choose. The problem I see is that some believers confuse the New Covenant with the Old Covenant, so in a misguided attempt to "obey" the wrong law, they actually end up disobeying the very law we were told to follow in the New Covenant. I believe that is the real danger with this kind of thinking.

Nehemiah 10:28-29: “And the rest of the people, the priests, the Lewites, the gatekeepers, the singers, the Nethinim, and all those who had separated themselves from the peoples of the lands unto the Torah of Elohim, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, all who had knowledge and understanding, were joining with their brothers, their nobles, and were entering into a curse and into an oath to walk in the Torah of Elohim, which was given by Mosheh the servant of Elohim, and to guard and do all the commands of Yahweh our Master, and His right-rulings and His laws, and that we would not give our daughters as wives to the peoples of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons, and that if the peoples of the land bring wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a set-apart day, and we would forego the seventh year and the interest of every hand.”

Nehemiah said they were entering into a CURSE by taking an oath to walk in the law of God, to obey and follow all the commands of Yahweh. The commands themselves were not the curse but they BRING the curse. There was nothing inherently wrong with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil either, but it still brings forth the curse of death regardless.

2 Corinthians 3:6: "who also made us compenent as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life."

Which category do you suppose the written Torah of the Old Covenant falls into, the letter or the spirit? We can see right here that they are NOT the same thing. The New Covenant is NOT of the letter but of the Spirit, so we can establish that much. What of the Old Covenant? If the New Covenant is NOT of the letter but IS of the Spirit, what does this tell us about the Old Covenant?

Once we admit that the Old Covenant with its written Torah is of the LETTER and not of the SPIRIT, we can immediately see which covenant brings death and which covenant brings life. Which tree in the garden produced death and which tree produced life? They each served their own purposes, but are we really going to say they are the same tree, since God created both?? The knowledge of sin produces fruit of death, the Spirit produces fruit of life. Trying to make black spiritually sound like white is inconsistent with what the Messianic Scriptures teach regarding the contrast between the Old and the New.

The Torah is not of faith, but the righteous shall live by faith. It's fairly simple. If the righteous shall live by faith, and the Torah is not of faith, what does that say regarding one who insists on observing Torah? Each of us must choose whether to live by faith or live by Torah. But NT Scripture is exceedingly clear that they are NOT one and the same. Once faith has come, you're either in one camp or you're in the other. They cannot be mixed.

Love in Him,
David

 

[Mark C]

I'm simply pointing out the fact that observing the Old Mosaic Covenant brings a curse...

Hardly, David - unless you ignore half of the lesson of Deuteronomy, as well as what our Savior taught!

Obedience brings a BLESSING, just as He promised! (Deut. 30, among many, MANY others. Deut. 28:1-14, obviously. And of course there's most of John chapters 14 and 15, and Yeshua's many comments and admonitions about obedience, teaching, or even just being 'least in the kingdom'.)

The whole point of a conditional, of course, is that we obey Him IF we love Him, by choice:

Blessings in obedience to Him,

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

I'm simply pointing out the fact that observing the Old Mosaic Covenant brings a curse...

Hardly, David - unless you ignore half of the lesson of Deuteronomy...Obedience brings a BLESSING, just as He promised! (Deut. 30, among many, MANY others. Deut. 28:1-14, obviously.

You believe the lesson of Deuteronomy was to simply be perfect at obeying the Mosaic Covenant, rather than demonstrating that they really have no hope of obeying it perfectly? Well, according to the passage you mentioned, only PERFECT obedience to that covenant brings a blessing. Any ATTEMPT at obeying the Old Covenant (ie. anything less than PERFECT obedience) brings a curse. The condition listed in Deuteronomy is the operative requirement for the blessing. So, let's take a close look at precisely what the stated condition was. Then we can decide whether one would bring a blessing or a curse on oneself for observing the Mosaic Covenant as written by the letter. The condition is broken down as two statements:

(1) Deut. 28:1: "And it shall be, if you DILIGENTLY obey the voice of Yahweh your Elohim, to guard to do ALL HIS COMMANDS which I command you today, that Yahweh your Elohim shall set you high above all nations of the earth."

(2) Deut. 28:15: "And it shall be, if you do not obey the voice of Yahweh your Elohim, to guard and do ALL HIS COMMANDS and His laws which I command you today, that all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you."

This is fairly straight forward. If you diligently obey ALL His commands, you get the blessing. If you do NOT diligently obey ALL His commands, you get the curse. I'm sure you're already familiar with all the NT passages that demonstrate how we are hopeless in obeying the Torah and that if we broke one, we broke them all, since there is no prize for second best. Either one is perfect in obeying ALL HIS COMMANDS or he fails. Torah allows for no middle ground on this. It's either perfect obedience or failure of perfect obedience.

Only one man ever managed to meet the blessing conditions required by Deut. 28. Everyone else that tried and failed got the promised curse. Therefore, only in Him do we gain the blessing. Look again at what Nehemiah said:

“...all who had knowledge and understanding, were joining with their brothers, their nobles, and were entering into a curse and into an oath to walk in the Torah of Elohim, which was given by Mosheh the servant of Elohim, and to guard and do all the commands of Yahweh our Master, and His right-rulings and His laws...”

There is no mention of any blessing here, in fact, no mention of a condition at all. Nehemiah understood all too well that the oath they took was an unavoidable trap. Anything but perfect obedience could only bring the curse, because even their best attempts would always result in failure. There was no possibility of anyone meeting the singular strict condition (obey ALL His commands) of the blessing and he knew it. The Torah results in a curse WITHOUT REMEDY!

Deut. 27:26: "Cursed is he who does not establish the Words of this Torah. And all the people shall say, Amen!"

The people agreed to this covenant which then stood against them for failing to "guard and do ALL HIS COMMANDS" as stated.

Gal. 3:10: "For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for it has been written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL that has been written in the book of the Torah, to do them."

Love in Him,
David

 

[Anonymous]

And of course there's most of John chapters 14 and 15, and Yeshua's many comments and admonitions about obedience, teaching, or even just being 'least in the kingdom'.)

Again, if you don't distinguish between the two laws being discussed in the New Covenant and can only see them as one and the same, you won't understand that we are freed from the written Torah. We ARE to be obedient, but NOT to Torah.

Romans 7:1-7: "Or do you not know, brothers – for I speak to those knowing the Torah – that the Torah rules over a man as long as he lives? For the married woman has been bound by Torah to the living husband, but if the husband dies, she is released from the Torah concerning her husband. So then, while her husband lives, she shall be called an adulteress if she becomes another man's. But if her husband dies, she is free from that part of the Torah, so that she is not an adulteress, having become another man's. So my brothers, you also were put to death to the Torah through the body of Messiah, for you to become another's, the One who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to Elohim. For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, through the Torah, were working in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been released from the Torah, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in newness of Spirit and not in oldness of letter. What, then, shall we say? Is the Torah sin? Let it not be! However, I did not know sin except through the Torah. For also the covetousness I knew not if the Torah had not said, "You shall not covet."

Is a widow still to follow the commands of her dead husband? When she remarries, is she obeying her new husband's commands by going back and trying to obey her old husband's commands? Or is Paul correct when he says that we, like the woman, are released from the Torah?

The word translated twice in this passage as released is "katargeo". It means abolished, destroyed, vanished away, canceled out, made non-existent. Paul was drawing a correlation between an adulteress following two husbands and a person following the "katargeo" Torah and Messiah. He even identifies the abolished Torah in verse 7: "You shall not covet" - clearly a Ten Commandment law, so there's no arguing that Paul was REALLY speaking of ceremonial or some other spoken man-made law.

There are two laws being discussed in the NT Scriptures, the Law of Moses and the Law of Messiah. They are not the same law. They are not the same covenant.

Gal. 6:2: "Bear one another's burdens, and so complete the Torah of Messiah."

Not the Torah of Moses, the Torah of Messiah. A different law. A better law. Not the same law.

1 Cor. 9:21: "to those without Torah, as without Torah - not being without Torah toward Elohim, but under Torah of Messiah - so as to win those who are without Torah."

Again, not the Torah of Moses but the Torah of Messiah.

Rom. 10:4: "For Messiah is the end of the Torah unto righteousness to everyone who believes."

Yet again, a contrast between Torah and faith.

Gal. 3:23-25: "But before belief came, we were being guarded under Torah, having been shut up for the belief being about to be revealed. Therefore the Torah became our trainer unto Messiah, in order to be declared right by belief. And after belief has come, we are no longer under a trainer."

And once again, the clear contrast between Torah and faith. They are not the same nor are they compatible. They cannot be mixed. Either faith has not yet come and we are still held prisoner by the Torah, or faith has come and we are no longer under a trainer.

Rom. 3:19: "And we know that whatever the Torah says, it says to those who are in the Torah, so that every mouth might be stopped, and all the world come under judgment before Elohim."

We need to look at ALL the relevant Scriptures to properly understand what it says. If we can only read the Messianic Scriptures through the eyes of Moses, we'll never allow Messiah to free us from the Mosaic law, along with its promised curse.

Love in Him,
David

 

[Mark C]

Second things first, David - just to get 'em out of the way. I note in your quote from the Greek letter to the Romans, you chose to translate the word used there repeatedly there as "Torah" - even capitalized it. Amazing. 'Been trying to get you to understand that distinction -- that the Hebrew word "torah" is MORE than law, that it really means God's "teaching and instruction" -- for quite a while now. At least you put the WORD Torah in a quote. But I think the attempt to misuse Romans 7 is a step in the opposite direction.

In other words, Hebrew "torah" ==> "teaching and instruction" ; NOT Greek "nomos" ==> "Torah".

Unfortunately, wrong language, and backwards besides.


But the heart of the error is here:

You believe the lesson of Deuteronomy was to simply be perfect at obeying the Mosaic Covenant, rather than demonstrating that they really have no hope of obeying it perfectly? Well, according to the passage you mentioned, only PERFECT obedience to that covenant brings a blessing. Any ATTEMPT at obeying the Old Covenant (ie. anything less than PERFECT obedience) brings a curse.

When I first read the above, David, I will admit that it tended to irritate me. You were putting words in my mouth - things I did NOT say!

I certainly NEVER said that I "believe" that the lesson was to "be perfect".

But then I realized that you were doing the SAME THING to what God had said. (Let's see - you like to call that "eisegesis", right? )

"Diligence" is not the same thing at ALL as "perfection" - unless perhaps one is looking in advance for a excuse for rebellion. You are still confusing a heart condition of obedience with a fallen attitude of justification by performance - which we BOTH agree is condemned (a reference to "menstrual rags" comes quickly to mind :shock: ).

Here's an example, right from Deuteronomy 30 (v 11-15) --my first reference, that makes the point undeniable:

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off.
It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

It almost sounds like there's a bit of sarcasm in there, doesn't it? Perhaps He knew it would be read by stiff-necked people.

No offense, my brother, but if David says it is too hard, and God says it is NOT, guess Who I believe?


Blessings in Him,

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

I note in your quote from the Greek letter to the Romans, you chose to translate the word used there repeatedly there as "Torah" - even capitalized it.

Yeah, the translation I read from prefers to translate "nomos" as "Torah" rather than simply "law". I don't mind if we say Torah, law, nomos...it all works for me. The true Greek word in that verse is "nomos". Whenever the Hebrew Old Testament word "Torah" was translated into Greek, it was always translated as "nomos" so I expect the translators were simply translating it back to try to keep the same intended meaning clear. But I think we both understand its referring to the Mosaic Covenant law, regardless which word they use in our English translation. In any event, let's just use "nomos" so there's less confusion. We certainly can both agree that is the actual Greek word in the text being quoted.

You believe the lesson of Deuteronomy was to simply be perfect at obeying the Mosaic Covenant, rather than demonstrating that they really have no hope of obeying it perfectly? Well, according to the passage you mentioned, only PERFECT obedience to that covenant brings a blessing. Any ATTEMPT at obeying the Old Covenant (ie. anything less than PERFECT obedience) brings a curse.

When I first read the above, David, I will admit that it tended to irritate me. You were putting words in my mouth - things I did NOT say!
I certainly NEVER said that I "believe" that the lesson was to "be perfect".

I wasn't trying to put any words in your mouth. I was ASKING whether this was what you believed. It was stated in the form of a question, to see if I understood you, and then I went on to demonstrate that the blessing was promised only for doing ALL HIS COMMANDS, and the curse was promised otherwise. This was why Nehemiah said the oath was a curse, not a blessing.

But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.[/i]

It almost sounds like there's a bit of sarcasm in there, doesn't it? Perhaps He knew it would be read by stiff-necked people.
No offense, my brother, but if David says it is too hard, and God says it is NOT, guess Who I believe?

No offense taken at all. We each have to follow our conscience at our current understanding of Scripture and the level of faith we have been given. If you believe I'm wrong, you should do what you believe is right. But you should also test everything against the whole of Scripture to discern which is which.

If you can name anyone who has managed to obey ALL HIS COMMANDS, I'd love to hear about Him. I can only think of one person who managed it, but perhaps you know of someone else? And if nobody else has actually managed it, what exactly are we debating here?

Please understand I'm NOT saying you can't obey Mosaic law if you choose to. That's your decision and your responsibility. Each of us are free to eat from whichever tree we will, and we will produce the corresponding sin or faith fruit accordingly. I'm just pointing out what NT Scriptures warn about remaining in bondage to the Mosaic Covenant. I've been released from that obsolete "nomos" by the blood of Messiah but that doesn't mean everyone has. You are entitled to live by the fruits of your choices. I just would have loved to be able to properly communicate to my brother the freedom of Messiah in a way that would make more sense. At this point, all I can recommend is reading, re-reading and again re-reading Galatians, over and over as needed, dozens of times if necessary, until this concept of TWO OPPOSING COVENANTS sticks, because this is the heart of the problem. Until we see that Moses is not Messiah, that the Old is not the New, we cannot grasp such a simple truth.

Gal. 4:9: "But not after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?"

Gal. 4:16: "So then, have I become your enemy, speaking truth to you?"

Gal. 4:21-22: "Say to me, you who wish to be under NOMOS, do you not hear the NOMOS? For it has been written that Abraham had two sons, one by a female servant, the other by a free woman."

Gal. 4:24-26: "This is allegorical, for these are the two covenants: one indeed from Mount Sinai which brings forth slavery, which is Hagar, for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Yerushalayim which is now, and is in slavery with her children. But the Yerushalayim above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Two different women: Hagar and Sarah. Not the same woman.
Two different covenants: Mosaic and Messianic. Not the same covenant.

Hagar/Mosaic brings forth slavery.
Sarah/Messianic brings forth freedom.

The contrast between the covenants is precise. These are opposites. There is no slavery in freedom and there is no freedom in slavery.

Gal. 4:30: "But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the female servant and her son, for the son of the female servant shall by no means be heir with the son of the free woman."

The Mosaic law is like the slave woman. Cast her out of your life! And her son (the fruit produced) is like the works done under the law. Cast him out too! I know that someone out there reading this discussion right now is getting this.

Love in Him,
David

 

[Mark C]

If we can only read the Messianic Scriptures through the eyes of Moses, we'll never allow Messiah to free us from the Mosaic law, along with its promised curse.

You're being far too legalistic, David. As I've tried to explain, and obviously failed, "torah" is not, NOT, NOT merely to be misinterpreted as "law". It is His teaching and instruction! And you're also missing the whole POINT of His sacrifice! He BECAME CURSED, FOR US. Not to "do away with" His own teaching, but to "fill it up", to complete the teaching, for us.

And Who "taught with Authority"? Who showed by Word and by example that we are not to rely on what we have "heard it said", but what "is Written"? That we are to rely on "EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God"?


I note that you seem to have ignored the central point of the article that spawned this thread:
a whole bunch of witnesses (more even than "two or three") confirm AGAIN that there IS a blessing for EVEN A SINCERE ATTEMPT to walk in obedience to Him!!!!!

I am but one witness. But my own personal testimony, in the strongest terms I can put it, is that His Word is TRUE. There IS a blessing for keeping His Teaching and Instruction, and walking in obedience to Him!

NOT because I'm trying to EARN salvation, or even a blessing! But because I love Him, and believe Him.

Therefore Choose Life,

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

You're being far too legalistic, David.

That's rich! :lol: I don't think I've ever been called "legalistic" before.

As I've tried to explain, and obviously failed, "torah" is not, NOT, NOT merely to be misinterpreted as "law". It is His teaching and instruction!

Okay, that's fine. I don't want to get sidetracked into semantics, because the proof speaks for itself. So which of these sentences do you dislike the least?

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of works of NOMOS are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL that has been written in the book of the NOMOS, to do them.”

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of works of LAW are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL that has been written in the book of the LAW, to do them.”

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of works of TORAH are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL that has been written in the book of the TORAH, to do them.”

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of works of TEACHING AND INSTRUCTION are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL that has been written in the book of the TEACHING AND INSTRUCTION, to do them.”

Take your pick, or give me another word, phrase or description that you prefer to substitute for nomos. Any way you slice it, it still says the same thing. It's not like the passage somehow allows for the possibility of a blessing. It's clear that Paul, as with Nehemiah, understood the only outcome of following "IT" was the curse.

I note that you seem to have ignored the central point of the article that spawned this thread:
a whole bunch of witnesses (more even than "two or three") confirm AGAIN that there IS a blessing for EVEN A SINCERE ATTEMPT to walk in obedience to Him!!!!!

I must have missed that part of the article. Which Scripture verses speak of blessing for a sincere attempt to obey Mosaic law/Torah/nomos/teaching-and-instruction/pick-a-word? I only see verses that speak to diligent obedience, not a fairly good try at obedience. A nice try only brings the curse.

Therefore Choose Life

PRECISELY! Choose life, not death! Choose tree of life, not tree of death. Choose Messiah, not Moses. Choose Sarah, not Hagar. Choose New Covenant obedience, not Old Covenant obedience.

Love in Him,
David

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Mark,

By the way, if I'm irritating you or causing you frustration, just tell me and I'll shut up. Sometimes I feel like we're in a ping-pong match. :lol: I'm only trying to debate the truth from Scripture and have no desire to argue just to argue. I truly value your opinion and your zeal for obedience (though as I see it, not casting her out of our lives is actually DISobedience, not merely an allegiance to the wrong law). But as you know, iron sharpens iron, and this discussion has served to give me additional insight into opposing views on Torah application today. I hope this discussion is benefiting you as well.

I do have another question though that may help me gain an even better understanding of how you interpret the New Covenant. The believing Pharisees in Acts 15 made this statement:

"It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the NOMOS of Mosheh."

Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Why or why not?

Love in Him,
David

 

[Mark C]

That's rich! :lol: I don't think I've ever been called "legalistic" before.

And I didn't really expect you to lapse into that one here, David, but (since most of us who ever use the word "torah" have) I just figured this was too good of an opportunity to pass up.

I'll let you know if I get frustrated (too much ping-pong tends to do it. ) By now we have at least some idea of areas where we simply aren't going to agree...

(And I just got a phone call; have to run an errand, so this will be abbreviated.)


Galatians: I contend that most folks read and teach it BACKWARDS, and "wrest" Paul, just as Peter warned. The rebuttal can't readily be delivered in a post, or even a dozen, but I recommend a number of Messianic works for full discussion of the errors. I think I've mentioned Avi Ben Mordechai's book and DVD series here before.


This one is easier:

The believing Pharisees in Acts 15 made this statement:

"It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the NOMOS of Mosheh."

Circumcision, like baptism, is a manifestation (post hoc, if you will) of a belief, and not a proof of it. Such acts do not "justify" anything, either -- nor do I think there should be any argument there, given what comes next.

[And we've had the discussion which could follow here before, given that Acts 15 also confirms that Moses is "taught every Sabbath day" -- so that those who MEET MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS are able to go, and CONTINUE LEARNING. I won't rehash that disagreement here, other than by noting what the gruff individual who gave me my first checkride told me after I passed my private pilot test:

"You NOW HAVE a LICENSE to LEARN."

Yeah, I was a "real pilot", having met the minimum standards to fly and carry passengers. Cocky pilots end up dead, but ones who aren't willing to stretch themselves never improve, either. Twenty-five hundred hours later, I'm still learning.]



Yeshua didn't "do away with" anything, David. He said so. He REDEEMED us FROM the curse that we carried. Our works don't EARN us anything, they are merely our "reasonable service" to Him. Because we love Him, we can CHOOSE to be obedient to Him. It is simply another measure of His love and grace that He blesses us abundantly for such obedience, as we "choose life" in Him.

Blessings,

Mark

 

[:-)]

Well said, Mark!