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Looking for advice from the ladies :)

D

DeathIsNotTheEnd

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Real Person
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Alright so, likely this has already been asked and talked about to death many, many times, but since I didn't want to be a thread necromancer and am not sure my exact question has been asked, I thought I'd start a new one.

Guys can give advice too but I'm specifically looking for the experience of the women in this situation :)

Intro:
So, as I stated briefly in my intro, my wife has done her own study of the Word and found that polygyny is indeed Biblical and not a sin/wrong. Nevertheless, she has a very strong emotional aversion to it. I get that this is normal...typical. In general, she responds with agreement and support when I discuss polygyny in other contexts (if a pastor says 'oh of course, adultery, polygyny, betrayal...these are all sins...', and I express to her my frustration that he included polygyny as usual, my wife will express sympathy and agreement that he was wrong to do so.)

The few (and I mean 2-3) times that we have seriously talked about it, she has expressed quite strongly that this is something she never wants, doesn't WANT to want, and doesn't want to seriously discuss or consider. She's pointed out that if I were to just ignore her feelings and do it anyway, she would live daily in constant hurt and heartbreak, and while that's my choice, she obviously doesn't want that lol. I get that. I get not wanting to live in hurt. And I don't want to hurt her. In an ideal world, she wouldn't feel these negative feelings at all. And I know it can be done. I have to believe the patriarchs weren't ALL heartless monsters who made their wives miserable 24/7. I recognize, though, that at this point those feelings are fairly deeply ingrained.

Situation:
At the moment I am not sitting around pining for a second wife, feeling like my life is purposeless or I am somehow disobeying God by being monogamous. However, I do have a longing in my heart for that, and beyond that, I realize the reality of who I am and was made to be. In short, I am trying to be patient, but I also want to lay a good foundation for if or when God does bring the blessing of a second wife into my life :)

Request for advice:

- I'm pretty certain that if I were to ask her to talk to the sisters here on the board she would reject it out of not wanting to discuss this possibility at all, not wanting to change her feelings, and not feeling like she has the neccesary time to devote to this (as I said, she's a doctor). Is this just a matter of waiting for her to ask? I read the First Wife Syndrome post and I feel like she would get a lot out of it (reassurance, comfort, etc...), but I don't want to be pushy...
- When this issue comes up, how can I both be honest about my own desires and beliefs without putting pressure on her? I know this in theory, as it applies to any issue, but I was hoping there might be some more specific advice regarding PM especially?

EDIT: Ninja'd for focus and wisdom :)
 
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Give her time. Lots and lots of time. Time with zero references. No mentions. Not one word's worth about the subject. No jokes. No asides. No needling little suggestions. Absolutely nothing. Don't offer to watch Big Love or Sister Wives with her. Don't breathe one breath on the topic.

If she's going to come around she will and you won't have to do anything but be still.
 
ZecAustin said:
Give her time. Lots and lots of time. Time with zero references. No mentions. Not one word's worth about the subject. No jokes. No asides. No needling little suggestions. Absolutely nothing. Don't offer to watch Big Love or Sister Wives with her. Don't breathe one breath on the topic.

If she's going to come around she will and you won't have to do anything but be still.
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Thanks man. I will try that :)

I will say...I'm not going to avoid talking about it at all...it's something I'm passionate about theologically, and we always talk about what we thought about the sermon or are learning in our Bible studies...but I will avoid bringing it up beyond simply commenting on that :)
 
Are you anywhere you could attend a BF retreat? Is your wife willing to talk to other women? I know you said she said she "doesn't want to want it", and there's not much you can do with someone who's dug their heels in at that level, but most of the progress for the women comes through contact with other women who can relate what they've been through to your wife on her level. So a BF retreat can produce a big breakthrough, not because anyone's going to twist her arm or try to talk her into anything, but just seeing families and hanging out and enjoying each other's company.
 
EternalDreamer said:
In general, she responds with agreement and support when I discuss polygyny in other contexts (if a pastor says 'oh of course, adultery, polygyny, betrayal...these are all sins...', and I express to her my frustration that he included polygyny as usual, my wife will express sympathy and agreement that he was wrong to do so.) However, needless to say...even my perhaps-50%-truth joking about "mm, those dishes sure would get done a lot faster if my other wife could do them" (PLEASE dont take that the wrong way lol, I say it only in jest), but it doesn't uh, doesn't get much more then a sardonic smirk and a "yup. Too bad for you that will never happen" kind of response.
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Those are two very different things. It's one thing to see it's biblical, and another for it to be personal. The more you 'bring it up in jest', the more she's going to dig her heals in, worry, and just get mad.

You've got to wait for the Holy Spirit to work on her.

I'll give you a personal example and tell you a bit about Samuel's and my journey to where we are now. When we had been married for about a year, I saw about Warren Jeffs being arrested. I told Samuel about it and said he was claiming to be a Christian, but he was a polygamist so obviously wasn't. And Samuel dropped a bombshell on me, which was that polygyny was actually biblically OK. He showed it to me in the bible, and he was right, I couldn't deny it. So I asked him if he'd ever get another wife, and at that point he said maybe if he was doing missionary work in another country, as it was basically their social welfare over there and made sense to him.
Fine. I just decided to make darn sure we were never ever missionaries over seas.
We discussed it a little over the years, in that it was biblical, but nothing too much. I remember talking to some JW's about it...they never returned, lol. Then Samuel was preaching at church and doing the first sermon of the year. He chose to do it on three things that he wanted people to look at themselves to find out what they thought, in order to get them digging deep into their bibles at the start of the year. He chose circumcision, marriage (do we need a marriage certificate etc), and polygyny. I had no problem with this and thought it was a great idea.
In doing research for this, Samuel found Biblical Families. We were both shocked that people actually did this, and in western countries no less! He did his sermon, but kept coming back to BF and thinking that it would be good to have another wife. He had such a desire for it. I was so upset. I didn't want him anywhere near BF. It was one thing to talk about it happening in Africa or something, and quite different to talk about it happening to people who lived like me, and made it far more real. In the end I asked him to stop going on here because it upset me so much. And he did.
A few weeks later I was struggling with having lots of small children and the fact that our family size would probably grow very quickly (it has, I was right about that lol), and I wanted to talk with mums that had large families and were leaving it up to God like we were. Samuel suggested BF as one site to look at as with men having multiple wives there were bound to be large families on here! I wasn't happy at first, but I came on here to see. I'd only been on here maybe an hour or so, just looking around, when I looked at Samuel and I just knew. It was truly the Holy Spirit. I absolutely knew that he was going to get another wife in the future and I needed to prepare myself for that. I spent 3 days solidly reading BF. Samuel brought home dinner with him after work, did dishes, helped with children, and I just read. By the end of those 3 days I was about as keen on the idea as he was.
Samuel's sermon was on the 2nd of January 2012. My first post on here was on February 11th.

Now, that is a story that shows a super fast change. That's not something that happens with everyone, but it shows just how the Holy Spirit needs to be a part of this. It's very individual. Change can happen fast and it can happen slow. Without God speaking to me like He did, I probably still would've been digging my heals in and freaking out thinking that I wasn't enough, thinking that he didn't love me enough. When you've grown up in a society that's told you what you're supposed to think for your whole life it takes quite a shake to get you out of that, and even then you keep reverting back to those thoughts that you were taught to think.

I know you're asking for a quick fix. I get that you're a loving person and PM would probably work great for you. But remember that if you gain a second wife and lose the first you are only practising monogamy.

EternalDreamer said:
I'm pretty certain that if I were to ask her to talk to the sisters here on the board she would reject it out of not wanting to discuss this possibility at all, not wanting to change her feelings, and not feeling like she has the neccesary time to devote to this (as I said, she's a doctor). So, I'm not sure if there's a way TO get her to discuss this with someone else...
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If she's wanting to talk with completely normal, lovely, Christian women, about anything to do with God or life then this is a good place to do that. On the ladies chat we sometimes talk about PM, and sometimes it never comes up. Sometimes we just discuss food the whole time, or marriage in general, or because I'm from NZ I spend half the time translating words that I've used that no body understands lol. We're not too scary, I promise, we're just normal people. I came on here looking for advice on kids, and I found an amazing community that I didn't expect.
 
Thank you, @FollowingHim2 . Im on my phone atm, but would love to talk more, if your husband doesnt mind me sending you a private message. I was going to edit my post as I realize I spoke a bit in hyperbole and some of what I said likely seems harsher or whinier than I meant it. Just been a rough day haha. But, thank you :)
 
I am a first wife, and currently an only wife. Every woman handles the concept of plural in different ways, some it's easy to comprehend and not a huge deal and others (myself included) it was EARTH SHAKING. It has been over two years now that I have ridden the roller coaster of emotions due to the idea of plural and learning that it is in fact biblical. The initial understanding of it isn't so much the issue until it becomes PERSONAL. Once a husband expresses his desire to love another woman, every thing within her being screams "I am not good enough for him", "There is no way he could love me" and every other insecurity imaginable. Even though that is not the truth, everything we have been taught about marriage, love, commitment, loyalty, trust, and companionship comes crumbling down (even to does God even love me). When she doesn't see the benefits or feels threatened that you are just going to pack up and find some new model, every joke, every reference is just confirmation in her heart that she has failed as a wife and a lover.

Men and women think very differently. I personally had to talk about everything.. over and over (thank goodness for my sweet husband) and cry BUCKETS over the losses I felt were happening in my life. I poured myself into every thread on the woman's only section and cried over their fears and sad stories and was in disbelief that there were any true stories of gals actually happy to be in plural. I realized that I was not alone. There were actually other women that were feeling the same things I was.

You know your wife the best. You know the areas she needs to grow in and how you can help her lovingly get there. I was against living this life and was fearful of it. I knew that my husband would do what he felt like God was guiding him to do, whether I was happy about it or not BUT he loved me through the darkest days and continued to SHOW me and prove to me that this desire isn't because I am not good enough, it is not because he wishes I was someone else, its not just so he has a excuse to chase after other gals, its not because he hates me. Its taken me this long to actually look forward to this life, but it wasn't without the pain and the gentle guiding of my husband.

Talking with other wives is crucial in this experience. It makes you realize you are not alone and you can get through the emotional days. I agree that you should encourage her to set up her own profile and at least read the posts on it- talk with some of us ladies and go to a retreat together (there is one somewhere on the West Coast next month).

Read these posts to help better understand what she is going through and be SO patient with her, love her for her, and remind her why you chose her and that you are continually doing so every day.

http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/first-wife-syndrome.9649/#post-104973

http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/for...-“first-wife-syndrome”-by-a-first-wife.12688/
 
I know you're really looking for input from the ladies, but here's one more thought (piggybacking on what WOHY said).

This is your opportunity (and challenge) to be a better husband. The uniform testimony of first wives of successful plural families is that they saw their husband become a qualitatively better husband, even if there was a loss of some quantity of his time. It's like it takes a certain amount of your energy to keep a 'normal' monogamous wife feeling loved, and it takes a lot more of your energy to keep her feeling loved (at least in the transition) in a plural family. Step up, man! Your first wife will be won over by that change, and both your first and any second or subsequent wife will reap the benefits.
 
EternalDreamer said:
How can I bring this up to my wife in a way that will get her to address it and soften her heart?
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Translation: I'm a man. I see a problem. I must fix it. What's the formula I should use to do that?
Answer: You can't fix it. And if you try you'll make it worse.

Just love her and be the best husband you can be. Eventually, if God intends to bring you another wife, He will work on her heart to bring her around to the idea in His timing. This may be many years away. And if He doesn't intend to bring you another, He doesn't need to change her heart at all, so He may choose not to (He may not be telling you about plural marriage because He intends you to get another wife yourself, He might actually be preparing you to support somebody else in that situation, maybe even one of your own children).

Also, if she does seem to be coming around to the idea, don't get too excited. She'll probably fluctuate between wanting and not wanting you to take a second wife for most of her life, largely as an emotional response to your treatment of her and other events in life. Don't get excited and push her when she seems positive, and don't get discouraged when she seems negative. Just love her and trust God. Whatever His plan is, He will make it all work out at the right time.
 
I focused past the process of her coming to a conclusion and just kept reassuring her in a confident and loving way that, in time, she would be there.
It was one of my more brilliant moves, not that there has been a lot of them. :rolleyes:
 
What he said. Just keep gently reassuring your wife everything you know about her heart for God, God's purposes for our lives (all things work for good, right?), etc. No argument, just positivity.
 
Something that has helped me - is my husband’s patience, graciousness and especially his shepherding of my heart. Knowing his banner over me is love, has helped so much.
He’s there when I have an issue to work through. That has been his love lived out.
Be a shepherd of her heart.
 
Thank you all.

My post was poorly worded in some areas but I can't edit it at the moment so, I hope you will all try and see my heart behind it.

Rather than replying to each person separately I will simply say: yes, that is my plan. As I said, I don't feel some huge pressing NEED to DO this right now. I'm content to wait. So I will continue to do so.

And if I did not make this clear before: I love my wife deeply. I seek every day to be a better husband and, more importantly, a better follower of Christ. I have no desire to hurt or grieve her. I want her to be happy, to fulfill the call God's placed on her life, and to help her follow Him as best I can. I will, as I have been, continue to pray patiently, and will take the advice of some here to not try and bring it up or mention it in passing. Please know that I never 'nag' her about it, my reference to a joke was really just that, and she knew it (and her response back was as well), I simply said it as a humorous example...please don't take it as an image of me getting 'barbs' in or her trying to control me, that is not at all the spirit it was meant in.

My wife and I are very very close emotionally and spiritually. We have very few secrets, and are each others' best friends. She is, 99% of the time, a wonderful Proverbs 31 woman, and I am incredibly blessed to have her. And if God never blesses me with another wife, I am perfectly content with just her, as I do not feel in any way deserving even of ONE wife. But the desire remains. So my prayers, while asking that if God wills this for us He would move in her heart, ALWAYS, always, involve asking Him to also give ME a soft heart towards her, a patient contentment, and that if He does NOT desire this change in her or another wife for me, that He will change MY heart and desires so that I don't mind, but in all things I seek to follow His calling (whether to polygyny or monogamy) regardless of my own hopes. So...yeah. Just wanted to make sure you guys understand where my heart is coming from.
 
No problem. Not criticising you either.

For instance, the fact you are comfortable joking together like that is also a good thing, and I know you meant it positively. We all do, but have found from experience that such jokes can be counterproductive as at a deeper level they can be taken as reminders of something painful by the female mind, and it can be more helpful to refrain from mentioning it at all rather than to mention it in jest. It's a suggestion from experience by men who are naturally just as jocular as yourself!
 
FollowingHim said:
No problem. Not criticising you either.

For instance, the fact you are comfortable joking together like that is also a good thing, and I know you meant it positively. We all do, but have found from experience that such jokes can be counterproductive as at a deeper level they can be taken as reminders of something painful by the female mind, and it can be more helpful to refrain from mentioning it at all rather than to mention it in jest. It's a suggestion from experience by men who are naturally just as jocular as yourself!
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Yeah, I read over the posts about First Wife Syndrome and found those immensely reassuring and helpful. So yeah...Imma avoid those jokes if I can :)
 
EternalDreamer said:
Yeah, I read over the posts about First Wife Syndrome and found those immensely reassuring and helpful. So yeah...Imma avoid those jokes if I can :)
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In your status right now, keep it safe and reassuring.

My wife and I have gotten to the point that it's just plain hilarious to joke about all types of poly scenarios (we aren't practicioners). She knows my heart. I'm sure you will get there soon too :)
 
FollowingHim2 said:
Those are two very different things. It's one thing to see it's biblical, and another for it to be personal. The more you 'bring it up in jest', the more she's going to dig her heals in, worry, and just get mad.

You've got to wait for the Holy Spirit to work on her.

I'll give you a personal example and tell you a bit about Samuel's and my journey to where we are now. When we had been married for about a year, I saw about Warren Jeffs being arrested. I told Samuel about it and said he was claiming to be a Christian, but he was a polygamist so obviously wasn't. And Samuel dropped a bombshell on me, which was that polygyny was actually biblically OK. He showed it to me in the bible, and he was right, I couldn't deny it. So I asked him if he'd ever get another wife, and at that point he said maybe if he was doing missionary work in another country, as it was basically their social welfare over there and made sense to him.
Fine. I just decided to make darn sure we were never ever missionaries over seas.
We discussed it a little over the years, in that it was biblical, but nothing too much. I remember talking to some JW's about it...they never returned, lol. Then Samuel was preaching at church and doing the first sermon of the year. He chose to do it on three things that he wanted people to look at themselves to find out what they thought, in order to get them digging deep into their bibles at the start of the year. He chose circumcision, marriage (do we need a marriage certificate etc), and polygyny. I had no problem with this and thought it was a great idea.
In doing research for this, Samuel found Biblical Families. We were both shocked that people actually did this, and in western countries no less! He did his sermon, but kept coming back to BF and thinking that it would be good to have another wife. He had such a desire for it. I was so upset. I didn't want him anywhere near BF. It was one thing to talk about it happening in Africa or something, and quite different to talk about it happening to people who lived like me, and made it far more real. In the end I asked him to stop going on here because it upset me so much. And he did.
A few weeks later I was struggling with having lots of small children and the fact that our family size would probably grow very quickly (it has, I was right about that lol), and I wanted to talk with mums that had large families and were leaving it up to God like we were. Samuel suggested BF as one site to look at as with men having multiple wives there were bound to be large families on here! I wasn't happy at first, but I came on here to see. I'd only been on here maybe an hour or so, just looking around, when I looked at Samuel and I just knew. It was truly the Holy Spirit. I absolutely knew that he was going to get another wife in the future and I needed to prepare myself for that. I spent 3 days solidly reading BF. Samuel brought home dinner with him after work, did dishes, helped with children, and I just read. By the end of those 3 days I was about as keen on the idea as he was.
Samuel's sermon was on the 2nd of January 2012. My first post on here was on February 11th.

Now, that is a story that shows a super fast change. That's not something that happens with everyone, but it shows just how the Holy Spirit needs to be a part of this. It's very individual. Change can happen fast and it can happen slow. Without God speaking to me like He did, I probably still would've been digging my heals in and freaking out thinking that I wasn't enough, thinking that he didn't love me enough. When you've grown up in a society that's told you what you're supposed to think for your whole life it takes quite a shake to get you out of that, and even then you keep reverting back to those thoughts that you were taught to think.

I know you're asking for a quick fix. I get that you're a loving person and PM would probably work great for you. But remember that if you gain a second wife and lose the first you are only practising monogamy.


If she's wanting to talk with completely normal, lovely, Christian women, about anything to do with God or life then this is a good place to do that. On the ladies chat we sometimes talk about PM, and sometimes it never comes up. Sometimes we just discuss food the whole time, or marriage in general, or because I'm from NZ I spend half the time translating words that I've used that no body understands lol. We're not too scary, I promise, we're just normal people. I came on here looking for advice on kids, and I found an amazing community that I didn't expect.
Click to expand...

I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to get my wife to come onto BF! Obviously, it would be even better if I could get her to come to the retreat that is coming up, but I think I am running out of runway on that one. She recently read a lot of my posts on YouTube. Usually though, I run into opposition on YouTube, with the occasional supporter backing my comments, but it is not the place where women who practice polygyny, gather and chat with one another.
 
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