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Love Times Three

I'm all for reading things that are encouraging but I wish more could be written by & for Christian polygynists. Personally, I don't want to support the FLDS (independent families or otherwise) with my money. Just my opinion....
 
i was planning on ordering that book too, as apart from the FLDS thing they seemed 'normal'.

full book review pretty please when you are finished?

ylop
 
I am working on it! I have Love Times Three on my Nook, so I can read that anywhere since I keep my Nook in my purse. I am reading Defiant Birth at the same time, but I ordered that as a book, so it is here at home.

So far I really like Love Times Three. The four of them take turns sharing how they each handled various parts of the relationship. His first two wives he married at the same time and was involved in a dual courtship with them. Very interesting read. None of them really thought they would want to be in a PM, but when they all found they loved each other and neither girl wanted to give up pursuing Joe, they decided to pursue him together, with Joe's mother's counsel. And yep, they grew up very normal. Evidently the HBO show Big Love is based on their life.

As for supporting FLDS, I support all kinds of people all the time with the money I spend - especially at the grocery store and the gas station. So, I don't see a problem with buying a book written on a subject that I am interested in, especially where the writers took a big personal risk to do so. Not too many Christians that are poly have bothered to stick their neck out like that. I admire the Darger's, and for that matter, I find I admire the LDS, too. I don't believe what they believe, but all the encounters I have had with them (and they have been many) have been honorable, loving and tolerant. I wish Christian churches were a lot more like the LDS. I haven't know any IFLDS, but from the book, it seems they are very similar. Prejudices persist when we refuse to educate ourselves about other cultures.

I will let you know what I think when I am done!
 
Diener said:
Not too many Christians that are poly have bothered to stick their neck out like that.
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Absolutely agree!


Diener said:
I find I admire the LDS,
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Diener said:
I wish Christian churches were a lot more like the LDS.
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I'm sorry but I find these comments really sad.

Diener said:
Prejudices persist when we refuse to educate ourselves about other cultures.
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It's because I am educated in Mormonism (social world & academic world) that leads me to believe the way I do. I have found that Biblical Truth can be compromised when we allow false doctrine into the camp.
Once again...just my opinion & experience.
 
quote="Diener"] I find I admire the LDS,[/quote]
Diener said:
I wish Christian churches were a lot more like the LDS.
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Interesting. Obviously yoiu do NOT mean doctrinally, as you just said you don't agree with that. So ...

How so, Diener?
 
Of the LDS I have known, they are very loving people.

1.They make time for you, really get to know you. (Many Christians at church are happy with see you just when they are scheduled to see you, like at church or Bible study)
2.They are willing to listen and gently, kindly offer a different opinion or view. (Many Christians condescend and insult others that don't think the way they do)
3.Among themselves, they take care of their own. They will not only meet the needs of a family that is struggling (like money or food or clothes), but they will give of themselves personally to help. They get involved with people's lives, like Froggie has done with Ruth. (Many Christians just like to throw money in the offering plate to solve a problem)
4. Their children are passionate about their faith and eager to please God. I have been amazed at how zealous LDS young men and women can be about their faith and still be so very compassionate and humble in spirit. (Many Christian children are lukewarm about Jesus by the time they are in high school and by the time they are in college they have forgotten all about serving Him and have started serving themselves)
5. The LDS are willing to set aside time in there children's lives to serve as missionaries before they go to college, though that is voluntary on the part of the child. (Many Christian parents put their children's education as more important than sharing the gospel and most Christian children would see 2 years as a missionary as a waste of valuable time)
6. When there is a problem of sin in the life of an LDS member, the church rallies around the family and tries to help them overcome the sin. They don't rely on the outside world to "fix" their members, but instead they have other LDS get personally involved. (Many Christians stay away from such people in the church and if anything they just say, "go talk to pastor so-and-so" or "you need to get some counseling")

There is only ONE church I have ever been a member of that was loving like that and it was in Colorado. That congregation did all the things I mentioned above. That doesn't mean that there aren't other Christian churches out there like the one I was part of in Colorado, but they are very few. And I am sure not ALL LDS are of the character I noted above - they are human after all - but as a whole community they strive to be that to each other and to the outside world.

Again, I clearly don't believe that Jesus is a created being that became a god by obeying the Father. I am not saying that Christians should adopt Mormonism, but they could certainly learn from the LDS when it come to understanding what "but the greatest of these is love" means.

And there is plenty of false doctrine in Christian churches that are just as compromising to Biblical Truth as Mormonism. I would say that much of what is written in 2 Tim. 3: 1-5 would describe the people in the compromised church:
1You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. 2For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly.
 
Fairlight said:
It's because I am educated in Mormonism (social world & academic world) that leads me to believe the way I do. I have found that Biblical Truth can be compromised when we allow false doctrine into the camp.
Once again...just my opinion & experience.
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If false doctrine is the measure, then I'm completely confused how the Christian church differs from the Mormons. I've not yet found a Christian church that doesn't somewhere significantly adhere to false doctrine rather than the Word of our God. Indeed, Jesus' righteous anger toward the Pharisees is completely applicable to both the Mormon and Christian church as nearly as I can tell. I also find it completely ridiculous that within the church today we can somehow think that we're not just like the Pharisees when all the symptoms are evident to even the most casual of observers. Heck, even the non-believers get it! Self-righteousness indeed seems the enemy's greatest victory within the church.

In any case, I better quit before this becomes a rant...
 
Oreslag said:
If false doctrine is the measure, then I'm completely confused how the Christian church differs from the Mormons.
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I was referring to what many refer to as "the essential doctrines of Christianity". The virgin birth, Salvation by Grace, Christ crucified & resurrected, Christ being the only means for salvation, The deity of Christ. These would be the essential doctrines pertaining to salvation. Mormonism rejects much of these.

And you're right, many churches believe various things that aren't Biblical. My pastor doesn't accept polygyny is morally acceptable but other than that he is on target with the essentials.

As for Biblical Families position on Mormonism, here is the link viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1137#p11084
 
Having to agree with Fairlight, that the basic Mormon theology is so at odds with the Bible as to be incompatible.

However, I very much appreciate your 6 points, Diener. There is much good that the Mormons practice, or are taught to. I could add a few ...

7. Everybody (or at least a far higher percentage than evangelical Christians) tithes, and presumably lays claim to the promised blessing for doing so. (Among American Christians, many tithe only sporadically, and many more not at all.) Tithing predates the Law, and Jesus affirmed it. Should we do less?

8. Health ... they are taught to live healthfully, including the avoidance of alcohol, tobacco, and other stimulants such as caffeine through tea, coffee, etc. (Most Christians vehemently defend their right to use one or all of these, sometimes even going on to defend the use of marijuana, etc.) Not saying that morality hinges on these things, but medical science and even the world are, more and more, realizing that these are excellent ways of preserving health and quality of life for however long we have to run around on this earth.

9. Preparedness ... Used to be and still is, so far as i know, every Mormon household was taught to obtain and maintain supplies adequate for one to two years ahead. Enough food, fire wood, TP and detergent and soap, etc. Whatever one routinely consumed, but especially food and firewood. (How many of US live completely hand-to-mouth? Some of us having to implore God for money to buy our children dinner at times?) Proverbs has much to say about looking ahead and having provision stored for lean times. And God gave us other illustrations, such as Joseph.

10. Industry ... They have the reputation of really working, even in this age when so many Christians are getting onboard with an entitlement mentality.

Jesus is our only path to Salvation. I believe this with all my heart. But that doesn't mean that there isn't much worthwhile to be learnt from others.

My own walk with Christ has been greatly benefited over the years by Objectivism (Ayn Rand), Sufism, Taoism, and Dale Carnegie (How To Win Friends and Influence People), among others.

None of them has provided a viable alternate way of salvation.

Each has expanded my thinking outside the narrow box of what was actively taught in "my church", and in so doing has illuminated my understanding of, or brought my attention to truths that were right there in the Bible all along -- just ignored or misunderstood.

In that respect, and to that degree, Mormonism is also a blessing to me. However, for those Mormon members or lurkers on this site, let me re-emphasize that this is a sola scriptura Christian site, and not receptive to your religion's theology.
 
I liked the book and bought it. My interest isn't what their religion is just how the family functions in a plural setting.

In regards to the Mormon vs Christian debate this tread is taking a spin too, I've yet to find a Christian church that I'm 100% happy with. I'd like to take certain doctrinal views and blend them up and start over. Yet, if you are at a church that teaches salvation in Jesus Christ alone,are getting Spiritual feed and growing in the Lord, that's a good church.
 
I have a lot of respect for the Mormons I know personally, and have seen the same character traits that deiner spelled out so well.

While those good character traits will bear fruit in this life, they will not change the awful reality that if a sweet, gentle, thoughtful, industrious Mormon doesn't believe that Jesus is one with the Father and the only way to Heaven, then that sweet, gentle, thoughtful, industrious Mormon is sadly going to hell.

We Christians could learn a lot from the Mormons earthly actions, that's for sure. We could learn a lot from Shinto Japanese and Buddhist Tibetans, who also have many admirable character traits, but we have to keep in mind that their religions are false and they are worshiping false gods.

Katie
 
Oreslag said:
If false doctrine is the measure, then I'm completely confused how the Christian church differs from the Mormons. I've not yet found a Christian church that doesn't somewhere significantly adhere to false doctrine rather than the Word of our God. Indeed, Jesus' righteous anger toward the Pharisees is completely applicable to both the Mormon and Christian church as nearly as I can tell. I also find it completely ridiculous that within the church today we can somehow think that we're not just like the Pharisees when all the symptoms are evident to even the most casual of observers. Heck, even the non-believers get it! Self-righteousness indeed seems the enemy's greatest victory within the church.

In any case, I better quit before this becomes a rant...
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Oreslag, you're right that every church has some false doctrine in it, every one of us on this board has false doctrine, too, and it will be that way until Christ returns (or doesn't return, if you're a Preterist!), because we're all human and our sinful humanity affects everything we do, say and think.

It's so easy for each of us to think that because God mercifully chose to open our eyes to see the truth of polygyny, we are somehow theologically superior to the "rabble" who are still living in the dark ages of monogamy-only. I have to be careful to remember to "check my pride ate the door", so to speak, and realize that my doctrine is far from perfect. Every day I must keep my heart and mind open to God's Word and what He would have me to learn about him.

If a church is full of the Spirit of God, doing the work of God, and adhering to the basic tenets of the faith, then I'm willing to look past doctrinal differences for Christ's sake. Unfortunately, most churches aren't willing to look past the doctrinal difference of polygyny, but we're working on changing that!

Katie
 
Had an interesting thought. Jesus chose to teach his disciples using a "hero" of the wrong theological persuasion -- the good samaritan!

My wife told me this morning of a time when she and her very small children were in dire straights. Neither her family, nor the church she grew up in, nor the church she was attending at the time lifted a hand to help her. But some JWs who happened by and realized her situation came back week after week to check on her and help out, with no proselytizing.

There may well be a vast difference between accepting their views on religion, and understanding that folks may be responding to and reflecting God's heart of Love, whether they share our understanding of His nature or not.
 
sola scriptura said:
Oreslag said:
If false doctrine is the measure, then I'm completely confused how the Christian church differs from the Mormons. I've not yet found a Christian church that doesn't somewhere significantly adhere to false doctrine rather than the Word of our God. Indeed, Jesus' righteous anger toward the Pharisees is completely applicable to both the Mormon and Christian church as nearly as I can tell. I also find it completely ridiculous that within the church today we can somehow think that we're not just like the Pharisees when all the symptoms are evident to even the most casual of observers. Heck, even the non-believers get it! Self-righteousness indeed seems the enemy's greatest victory within the church.

In any case, I better quit before this becomes a rant...
Click to expand...

Oreslag, you're right that every church has some false doctrine in it, every one of us on this board has false doctrine, too, and it will be that way until Christ returns (or doesn't return, if you're a Preterist!), because we're all human and our sinful humanity affects everything we do, say and think.

It's so easy for each of us to think that because God mercifully chose to open our eyes to see the truth of polygyny, we are somehow theologically superior to the "rabble" who are still living in the dark ages of monogamy-only. I have to be careful to remember to "check my pride ate the door", so to speak, and realize that my doctrine is far from perfect. Every day I must keep my heart and mind open to God's Word and what He would have me to learn about him.

If a church is full of the Spirit of God, doing the work of God, and adhering to the basic tenets of the faith, then I'm willing to look past doctrinal differences for Christ's sake. Unfortunately, most churches aren't willing to look past the doctrinal difference of polygyny, but we're working on changing that!

Katie
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And I agree completely. However, whether we call it doctrine or not, I've (unfortunatley) been unable to find a church that subordinates itself to the Word of God. I'm not speaking of polygyny in particular (just to clarify), but rather to the very wordly way in which every church I can find operates.

As an example, I was ordained in the Presbyterian church (Deacon) and a youth leader for years. I loved those in my congregation; particularly my kids. We went on mission trips together and I was moved to continue the 'yearly' mission on a regular basis at home. Thus, I found an inner-city Christian mission in which we could participate every day. This mission grew tremendously and after two years, I routinely had a dozen kids on the weekends and a few here and there for tasks during the week. Our Lord arranged for us to connect the wealth of our community and its excesses to the poverty of a community in need, comprised largely of immigrants. Long story short, though my pastor had counseled me to vacate my former marriage, and though I took four times as long to do so as he recommended; when the Lord gave me a wife that was obviously one of His own (Diener), there suddenly came (two months after our marriage) an accusation for which I still have not been informed and which caused them to ask me to step down as a Deacon and youth leader. Such is not the way the bible says to administer discipline in the church. It was at this point that I came to suspect that their mortgage and how much the coffers would support it were more important than either me or my family.

This is one of *many* doctrinal issues I've run into. I don't mean to sound like a skeptic, but I've come to believe (as the Westminster Confession of Faith so eloquently suggests) that the invisible church to which we belong is but a small fraction of the visible church which belongs to the world. Considering http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt 7:13-14&version=ESV, I now feel somewhat foolish that this surprises me ;-)

In any case, we simply go to a variety of churches in our area and try to find the believers within that we might come to know better. Praise our Lord that He's given us a small group fellowship with four couples besides ourselves, and I have a workplace fellowship with approximately a dozen regular attendees. We tithe into a bank account that we save for good works that become obvious (e.g. Diener sent a gift card to a woman with three children, no husband, no job, and trying to finish school whom she met on the BabyZone forums last week). Otherwise, I don't give the money my Lord provides to build bigger parking lots, nor to ostracize those who *do* believe the Word our God has given.
 
CecilW said:
Had an interesting thought. Jesus chose to teach his disciples using a "hero" of the wrong theological persuasion -- the good samaritan!

My wife told me this morning of a time when she and her very small children were in dire straights. Neither her family, nor the church she grew up in, nor the church she was attending at the time lifted a hand to help her. But some JWs who happened by and realized her situation came back week after week to check on her and help out, with no proselytizing.

There may well be a vast difference between accepting their views on religion, and understanding that folks may be responding to and reflecting God's heart of Love, whether they share our understanding of His nature or not.
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Another case in point, consider Pharaoh and how he let God's people go. Granted, Pharaoh later came after them too, though in a futile attempt to defeat God's sovereignty. In Romans, Paul explains that God raised him up expressly for this purpose: to demonstrate His power and glory to the objects of His affection. We should never think that God does not use *everyone* He has formed (regardless of whether or not they are His called) to achieve His righteous purpose.
 
Oreslag, I wholeheartedly agree that the vast majority of today's churches are more interested in big buildings than true ministry.

However, there are good churches out there. The last church we attended was a Reformed church, met in a small storefront, had minimal overhead, and was highly motivated to reach the lost of the community through any and all means. It was a great example of what a church should be. Unfortunately, it didn't see the truth of polygyny.

I am aware of several more churches with the same vision, all within a 40 mile radius of each other. My point is, they really do exist, but they just may be hard to find.

I also agree with your comment about the visible and invisible church. Sad, but very, very true.

Katie
 
Diener said:
Just wanted to share with you guys that I am currently reading this book and it is very interesting. It is from an Independent FLDS view, but I am still finding it very helpful and encouraging!


Here is their website:
http://lovetimesthree.com/


Here is the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Love-Times-Three- ... 0062074040
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I love this family and I plan on getting the book in the near future. I know they are Mormons but there are aspects of their relationships that would apply to ALL (including Protestant Christians) polygamous marriages. Some of my favorite topics to read on about polygamous relationships tend to be the companionship between the wives, dealing with jealousy, and the experience of the children in the lifestyle. I look forward to getting any insights on these areas from their book.
 
I agree, we all have errors and good, what really matters is what is in the heart, God will deal with us individually, he can fix our doctrine. I won't go into any details about errors because it would take too long and I will miss many..
Those people that have experience with families like that can teach us some things, bolts and nuts can be helpful even if they come from china. lol I see alot of things the rest of us should do like them like preparedness, family time, work ethic, etc..
The God from Kolob thing is not scriptural but I respect them for all the good things they try to do and be, many have good hearts. When I first became a Christian I used to attack them but now I realized they have error just like most churches I have been to, yes doctrine is way off but many are good people and we can learn things from them too and try to show them better doctrine in the process. Why not?
 
I finished the book, "Love Times Three", a couple of weeks ago and am ready to write a critique! I decided it would be better to write on the member forums so I can say what I think without worry.

Here is a link to the critique:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3248&p=32882#p32882
 
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