Lust

[sadanyagci]

Back when I was researching marriage, polygamy, etc... I also went into the topic of lust. So now I shall post my findings.

Anyone ever wonder about this lust topic? I mean, what is this lust and why is it adultery? When is it adultery? It's interpreted in so many ways these days, and in the past. So what did Jesus mean when He spoke of it directly, which is the only place where such is worded that way as to mean what so many say it means. The Bible gives the same message though out. This is an odd statement just sitting there... manipulating doctrine and getting interpreted in hundreds of ways all by itself. Well here's the scripture for ya. The source of the issue.

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28

Now, take it at face value. ANYONE who looks at ANY female with this "lust" has automatically committed adultery. Compound this with the equal gender ideas of the western world and NO ONE can look at ANYONE in this "lust" manner... EVER!

I've seen that dual application gender thing applied all kinds of places. My ex-fiancee had a severe problem with the above scripture. She "lusted" after me at times. As such, she always made sure to stop our kissing at the wrong times. Great job, Bible translators!

So what is this lust manner of looking at a girl? Well, the Greek word that is translated lust is interpreted through Greek understanding. Problem: Jesus was not speaking Greek. He spoke Aramaic. His people spoke Aramaic. You wouldn't preach to simple Jewish fishermen in Greek anymore than you would preach to a Turkish guy in English. It just don't work!

So... a Semitic language translated to Biblical Greek. Are there any examples of that kind of translation, to compare so that we may translate it back the way it came? The language of the New Testament is pretty rare. It has mostly only been found in there and the Septuagint. They were translated into the Greek of the people, rather than the prideful eloquent Greek way of writing. But the language of the Old and New Testaments in Greek are the same. So... I took this word for lust... and I found a way to search the Septuagint. I searched for all derivatives of the word... all similar words. It didn't come up too often. But each time it was the same Hebrew word that translated into it. That word... was Covet.

As in... thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's... what?

Yes, that word. Covet. It's not about sex. Who are these people that make everything sexual?

SO... covet... to want to have something that belongs to another person. That changes the verse considerably.

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman, with the desire to have her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28

Ok. This makes much more sense in light of other things said in the Bible. But there is still one more problem. It doesn't fit right. What if you need a girl? Are you not to desire to have any girl? That's not right.

Second fact. Hebrew/Aramaic... and Greek... were very different... but had something in common. They had no general word for a female. They had a word for unmarried females... and a word for married females. With groups they could pick and choose accordingly, I suppose. However, this word for female in Greek... guess what it just happens to be... yep, you're right... the married version!

So then here is the scripture, as it should be.

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman who belongs to another man, with the desire to have her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28

All Jesus was doing was explaining that they didn't have to take the girl to be in adultery with her. Simply wanting to take her was enough. He lifted coveting from a secondary sin position to a primary sin position. He combined 2 commandments, and simply repeated what was said all though out the Bible. That girl is some other guy's. Do not even want her.

This can also be stretched to say that a man who wants to take someone else's car, is already a thief in his heart... and the heart is where God looks... and what God will judge.

 

[Paul not the apostle]

I have read a similar commentary on this verse and I do believe it to be a true explanation. It also is supported by everything in the law and can only be understood correctly after having an understanding of the "old testament". Unfortunately, as Rabbi showed us at the retreat, the church is not going to understand this because they don't understand the Law of Moses.

 

[Mark C]

Very good, Sadan, and I agree as well.

(There is also a more traditional midrash, or orthodox Jewish teaching, on the 'ten sayings' that differs a bit from the usual 'Christian' counting, which says that "thou shalt not steal" actually refers to KIDNAPPING and that it is the "shall not COVET" anything of thy neighbor's is the prohibition against theft; thought precedes action.)

The more I have studied, the more I conclude that the word rendered in English is a bit stronger than most people think; "lust to have" really does convey the meaning better.

Without putting too fine a point on it in a general (i.e., not 'men only') forum, when it comes to women, perhaps most men past the age of puberty understand what I think Yeshua was referring to. Visualize/fantasize with desire to posses in lustful sense comes close enough. Certainly then it becomes obvious why to do that about another man's wife is forbidden.

Blessings,
Mark

 

[CecilW]

Well done, Sadan.

I believe that there is another word in Greek in reference to women that means "no longer married, whether due to divorce or death". So that in Greek we have three, transalted into English as follows:

Virgin = Never yet married
Woman = Married, i.e. belonging to another
Widow = No longer married whether through death or divorce.

The Hebrew, so I understand, has a fourth, so that a distinction is made between a divorcee and a widow.

Which makes it all more interesting. Jesus is simply saying, "Dude! There are lot's of women out there. Don't feel guilty about wanting one. Just don't point your, um, "desire" at THOSE ones. They, specifically, are off limits. The rest -- aren't!"

Have you ever considered that this understanding reveals a tacit support for Plural Marriage existing WITHIN the 10th commandment?

"Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" is terribly specific and revealing in what it does NOT say.

It does NOT say, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's daughter."
It does NOT say, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ex-wife."
It does NOT say, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's widow." And most significantly ...
It does not say the more general and logical, if that were God's intent, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's spouse."

Why not? Well, a married woman coveting her neighbor's spouse is already covered under the adultery clause. But an UNmarried female (whether because of "virginity", divorce, or widowhood) coveting her neighboring female friend's spouse as a husband for herself as well, is perfectly valid.

There you got it! Right inside the 10 commandments themselves!

 

[Tlaloc]

Excellent writeup. I narrowly missed the part about it not necessarily being about sex at all, but then I never looked into the Aramaic, the Greek alone is more than enough to show that the normal interpretation is insane.

That is a strong testimonial you gave, tough breaks man. Studying scripture is really liberating eh?

 

[sadanyagci]

I was actually fine with the restrictions as they were (though she took them too far), but once I learned the truth I was set free of them and realized how much more "human" one becomes when burdens that are not meant to be carried are taken off. We are free in Christ, indeed. We are not free to do evil... but free to be what God made us: men and women.

There are so many things Christians say are evil and back up with this one mistranslated scripture. Talk about heaping heavy burdens and not lifting one finger to help them. Many men and women could be helped immensely just with this one scripture translated properly for once. Then maybe they wouldn't backslide or leave the truth simply because it's too hard to exist!

 

[Paul not the apostle]

There are so many things Christians say are evil and back up with this one mistranslated scripture. Talk about heaping heavy burdens and not lifting one finger to help them. Many men and women could be helped immensely just with this one scripture translated properly for once. Then maybe they wouldn't backslide or leave the truth simply because it's too hard to exist!

Applause

 

[Tlaloc]

I know what you mean about being fine with it as it was. Its a good thing and a good spirit to be willing to follow the best you know, but to know and be free is better. I'm certainly glad not to have to impose such rules on anyone else ever again.