Movement in correct direction

[Jack P.]

I don't know where else to post this and I can't seem to get a thread started any where else. So my wife isn't on board with poly life style. Not because she doesn't believe but rather she is worried about her feelings and the reaction from the "friends" we have ( using quotes to suggest the looseness of which I use that word.) . We have talked about it a lot over the past three years. And slowly ever so slowly she as become a little more open minded about it. So much so she admitted this morning it is her perception, of what could happen more than he belief.
Anyway I digress last night we had friends over from our Sunday school class for burgers and dogs on the grill. After the couple left and the divorced female was in the kitchen. Chit chatting as she gathered her things. This turned into a hour and half conversation about her X , work and so on she opened up to us ( Jennifer and I) like Never before - (we have known. Her for about sixteen years ) just before leaving she was talking about how hard it was on her being a single parent and hard on her son (her X moved away and it has been hard on the child ) she made the statement out of the Clear blue sky that she needed a sister wife my wife snapped her head to look at me. Any way she and her child go on home.
My wife said to me " I was holding my breath worried about what was going to come out of your mouth next" ( I put on my most inoccent face ) "why?" Nothing else was said about it until morning and I ask her why she was worried about what I was going to say next? Which was nothing. (I was born on a day but not yesterday ) now all this may seem like a no event to most. But to me this is huge 1. My wife is engaging in a conversation about P.M. Without tears and ask some very poignant questions. 2. This gives me an opportunity to open the conversation up AGIAN when we are all together. In a manner like " so have you found you sister wife yet? " and see where it goes from there. But it is hinging on my wife being ok with the idea of an additional women in the house. But the talks are getting easier and the questions are more, "if we did how would this work ? How about if someone ask this what would we say? Her son is to young to keep quite about it how do you handle that? So pray for me to receive a blessing from our lord and savior.

Jack P.
In His name[/quote]

 

[FollowingHim]

Re: Movement in correct direction

One of my wife and my very early conversations on this was something like:
Sarah: "I would just be really uncomfortable about sharing you with some other woman"
Me: "What if that other woman was <old friend>?"
Sarah: "Oh, that would be different, I think I could get used to her, it would be difficult but I can see how it could work"

Note that the old friend in that conversation was someone we did not pursue, they were purely illustrative.

My point is that sharing with "some woman" is a lot more scary than sharing with "old friend whom I love". It may be that putting a friendly face on the sister-wife in her mind makes the concept of a sister-wife a lot less intimidating, and more realistic.

 

[UntoldGlory]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Good advice as usual from Samuel. I would say don't rush anything of course, but that's a good conversation to have with the wife I think. Personally I'd be less inclined to drop the SW question to the friend, as that might not be well received by the wife, but I would be inclined to talk to your wife about maybe trying to find ways for the two of you to help her out. Notice I did say the two of you, I wouldn't be like "Ima go fix her sink, kk?" , but the two of you forming a more symbiotic relationship might help your wife to know if this is something she could do, and you'd be helping out a woman in need. So kind of a win win there.

Very encouraging I would say though.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Let's take this back to the basics.

Whenever there is a problem in marriage, including the introduction of polygamy, you have two options.

• You can:
  1. Fix it
  2. Leave

God strongly disapproves of option number two in most cases. So the only option I generally consider is option number one. The woman in question still has option number two available to her of course since we don't stone adulteresses in the New Testament era. (John 8:7) The only option that I consider is fixing it however. God's a big God and faith can move mountains so I'm sure that with mutual listening, caring and understanding we can reach an amicable solution.

The key point to accomplishing option number one is listening, caring and responding to your wife's feelings. That much is true regardless of what the problem is and regardless of whether you have one wife or your name is King David. I can tell you from personal experience that this does count on both of you listening, caring and responding to the other one's feelings. It didn't end well when I tried being the only one who did. Very few marriages will end well in such circumstances.

 

[FollowingHim]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Wesley, could you please clarify what you mean with your "adulteresses" reference, because I am rather unclear about what you are getting at. Which "woman in question" are you talking about, the prospect or his wife?
- Do you mean the first option is to help the prospect to heal her first marriage, if possible, and not immediately jump to the conclusion that you should try to take her yourself? I'd agree with this.
- Are you suggesting that Jack should pursue this regardless and his wife has the option of leaving, but he should work to try and make her stay? That sounds like a backwards attitude to me, playing with fire, someone's likely to get burnt. We've discussed that strategy in depth on another thread with most of us having major problems with this suggestion.

If you mean something else please speak more plainly because if I'm confused I expect other readers will be also. If your point is the same as has been made in a previous thread please just cite that tread and leave it at that.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Wesley, could you please clarify what you mean with your "adulteresses" reference, because I am rather unclear about what you are getting at. Which "woman in question" are you talking about, the prospect or his wife?

I will let Christ and Paul answer that question...

Mark 10:12 NIV
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

1 Corinthians 7:10-11 NIV
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband...

Romans 7:2-3 NIV
2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

- Are you suggesting that Jack should pursue this regardless and his wife has the option of leaving, but he should work to try and make her stay? That sounds like a backwards attitude to me, playing with fire, someone's likely to get burnt. We've discussed that strategy in depth on another thread with most of us having major problems with this suggestion.

If you mean something else please speak more plainly because if I'm confused I expect other readers will be also. If your point is the same as has been made in a previous thread please just cite that tread and leave it at that.

No, that is NOT what I said.

I'm sick of trying to clarify because no matter how clear and blunt I try to be everyone always jumps back to that conclusion. So the answer is no, I'm not going to waste my breath trying to clarify to people that aren't listening anyway.

 

[Jack P.]

Movement in correct direction

Ok guys thanks, for all your input. I think that there are a few things I should have been more clear about. So here goes and I am sure I will still leave something out.

We will say wife is "J" and friend is "D" for the rest of this thread, K? K!

D got divorced two and a half to three years ago because her then husband found " new " love at the work place. About six months ago he and his new wife moved out of state. Taking their new born, his daughter from his first marriage ( D was his second) and get this her X and their two children all in tow D and her male child (2nd grader) were left here.

D is in our Sunday school class so when she ask for prayers about the divorce J and I offered any help she needed ( some but not all include, helping her move in with her mother, having our older boys hang with D's son, looking over a used car she was purchasing, making a pinewood car with the boy for cub scouts)

So we have been trying to help her that is one of the reasons she was at our house that night , fellowship with us and other members of the Sunday school class.

It just happened by chance or by D's design that she was the last one here that night. ( by design because she need to share or she shared because we three were there alone. IDK)

The subject of poly life has been an on going conversation with my wife and I for some years now at least three and a half by the time the retreat gets here. At first J was opposed. Then she got to where her and I could discuss it without her being in tears ( disclaimer--- I have always been considerate and gentle during these talks I have posted in another thread about not using the Bible as a weapon) then yesterday morning we talked and she admitted that her biggest fear is the public knowing and her self esteem level.

I hope that clears the water a little more. I thank everyone for your comments and advice I read and digest it all some is very helpful, and I give thanks to the Lord for all of it.


Please keep commenting discussing and praying

Jack P.
In His Name

 

[UntoldGlory]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Sounds like things are on a good track and that you're handling them well, especially with the clarifications. It does look like some great developments are in the works, but again, I caution you to move ahead prayerfully and not to get so excited you push anyone to fast or too far. You know your situation better than us obviously, so if you think that conversational nudge is called for at this juncture, then more power to you and Godspeed. I'd definitely up the words of encouragement with the missus too. Not saying you don't already, and not telling you to be insincere, just make it a point to vocalize the things you probably think in passing on a regular basis. That's something I'm still working on doing to, but when I do I believe it means a lot to my wife..

Either way, keep us posted!

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

If your wife is willing to talk with you about it, as opposed to talking at you, without tears, histrionics, death threats or flying appliances then you're at least one or two steps ahead of a lot of men.

I have to agree with UG. Support, encouragement and patience are the order of the day. When a woman is willing to talk with you rather than talking at you then patience and prayer can literally work miracles.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

- Are you suggesting that Jack should pursue this regardless and his wife has the option of leaving, but he should work to try and make her stay? That sounds like a backwards attitude to me, playing with fire, someone's likely to get burnt. We've discussed that strategy in depth on another thread with most of us having major problems with this suggestion.

If you mean something else please speak more plainly because if I'm confused I expect other readers will be also. If your point is the same as has been made in a previous thread please just cite that tread and leave it at that.

No, that is NOT what I said.

I'm sick of trying to clarify because no matter how clear and blunt I try to be everyone always jumps back to that conclusion. So the answer is no, I'm not going to waste my breath trying to clarify to people that aren't listening anyway.

It took me a while to figure out why my response to this question bugged me.

My statement is true. I really am sick of trying to explain to people who aren't listening anyway. Why did telling the truth bother me?

Then it hit me. This is Jack P.'s thread not Samuel's. I don't recall Jack P. having been involved in the prior discussions where I tried to explain and no one listened. So the response isn't really appropriate in his thread even though I wasn't responding directly to him.
---------------------------

@ Jack P.,
I apologize for responding so harshly to one of the other commenters on your thread.

The civilized answer to the question is that I refuse to accept that women are more innocent than men are. I believe that there are just as many abusive jerks among women as there are among men. From past experience I know of a fact that abusive women do exist regardless of what the relative statistics are.

I can't see God condemning a person for leaving an abusive jerk regardless of whether the abuser happens to be either male or female.

Thus my statement was intended for the situation where the woman in question actually is an abusive jerk and chooses the polygamy vs. monogamy issue as one of the focal points of abusive behavior.

My understanding of the applicable scripture that pertains to that situation is that the man is not to stop the woman from leaving but it is adultery for her to do so. The sin is hers not his.

That's obviously not your situation but I've been through enough crap from people who have tried to tell me that my exes weren't actually abusive, tried to tell me that I was never hit or that they never threw things, or belittled the concept by making statements such as "I doubt that was the case because that's rare" to know what that pain feels like.

For that reason I did not want another male spouse abuse victim reading my comments and thinking that I was just another insensitive jerk belittling his situation. Thus I included the comment.

My apologies to you for my part of the ensuing argument.

 

[Jack P.]

Movement in correct direction

Wesley no worries brother I understand and can empathize. My first wife sewed the top and bottom bed sheets together around my body and awoke me by hitting me with a broom handle. Did or had I behaved poorly by staying out all night and consuming things that made me less then sober, Yes, was it right for her to take out her anger in that way? No more so than if man had done the same to a female.
I have heard the comments that I deserved it, but feel if it was reversed I would have been ostracized.
Is it rare that it happens? Yes, but it does happen and is usually humiliating to the man when it does.

But and no doubt it is a big BUT that was in my past, I lived it, I learned from it, and I left it there (in my past) although it shapes who I am I don't let it define me. Cause if I did I wouldn't be a very nice person to be around. And I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and children because she would have seen the sourness in my heart.

So I understand, been there , done that, have the t-shirt to prove it lol. Don't worry about offending me with something you write here. I am the type of person that IF offended the offender will be the second one to know. ( just the way I am ---- not sure it is a good thing or not ) I always try to show and give love to everyone. I even have a soft places in my heart for my first wife ( because I was a very hurtful person back then and she put up with a lot)
Christian Brotherly love to you Wesley and everyone else on this site

Jack P.
In His Name
Coram Deo

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

But and no doubt it is a big BUT that was in my past, I lived it, I learned from it, and I left it there (in my past) although it shapes who I am I don't let it define me. Cause if I did I wouldn't be a very nice person to be around. And I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and children because she would have seen the sourness in my heart.

That's where I'm still struggling and always will be. PTSD does not go away. Ever. It is not curable by currently available methods in most cases. Some cases can be "cured" depending on how we define the word and people who don't want to know much about it (emphasis on "don't want to know") take those as evidence that all cases can be cured but nothing could be further from the truth. Most cases of PTSD can be coped with but never cured.

My situation is different from yours in another way too. As one of my therapists put it, if we measure obnoxious on a scale of one to ten where a one would be a cross between John the Apostle and Sean Connery and a ten would be Ted Bundy most men average about a three and I'm running about a 2.9.

Like I said, I've tried giving details in this forum nothing good came of it. So I'll make a long story short...

Whenever I tried to discuss who was at mostly at fault in my past relationships with my therapists (plural) the discussion always came back to a few primary points that the therapists refused to budge from.

1. The fact that I was walking into therapists offices asking what I was doing wrong and how I could learn to do better said something very significant.
2. The fact that my wife (regardless of which one I was with at the time) was sitting at home refusing to go to therapy, claiming to be perfect and refusing to admit she needed to do anything differently ALSO said something very significant
3. Apparently abusive men don't make a habit of going into therapists' offices asking what they're doing wrong and how to change it
4. I was the one trying to communicate
5. My (now ex) wives were the ones shutting down communications

For these reasons they were adamant that I wasn't the one who was primarily at fault for the problems in the relationships.

The problem that I run into now is that because I was told that everything was all my fault for so long, and believed it, and had to work so hard to realize that it wasn't when people start saying that it was my fault again they get a fear reaction, 'fight/flight', and it's usually the 'fight' side of that reaction.

 

[Jack P.]

Re: Movement in correct direction

If I may ask Wesley where do you have PSTD from ? I think I have read you were in the Navy ( by the way I am an a Army veteran) where were you stationed

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Per the official diagnosis documentation my PTSD stems from three sources, child abuse by my mother, my Navy service and spouse abuse trauma. The child abuse is considered to be what they call the "index trauma", which means that it is the first and worst of the three.

Yes, I served in the US Navy. I was stationed on the USS America CV-66 based out of Norfolk, VA. What my first ex did to me is considered by the VA to be military sexual trauma (MST) because I was in the Navy at the time that it happened.

Thank you for your service from one veteran to another.

 

[Jack P.]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Thank you and all the other veterans on this site

 

[Wesley]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Thank you and all the other veterans on this site

Agreed!

 

[PolyPride]

Re: Movement in correct direction

It took me a while to figure out why my response to this question bugged me.

My statement is true. I really am sick of trying to explain to people who aren't listening anyway. Why did telling the truth bother me?

Then it hit me. This is Jack P.'s thread not Samuel's. I don't recall Jack P. having been involved in the prior discussions where I tried to explain and no one listened. So the response isn't really appropriate in his thread even though I wasn't responding directly to him.
---------------------------

Hmmm... Not the first time i read this complaint. Try explaining in love or just let the Holy Spirit be the guide to truth.

No, that is NOT what I said.

I'm sick of trying to clarify because no matter how clear and blunt I try to be everyone always jumps back to that conclusion. So the answer is no, I'm not going to waste my breath trying to clarify to people that aren't listening anyway.

Another one of these? Be still and Try explaining in love.

But the talks are getting easier and the questions are more, "if we did how would this work ? How about if someone ask this what would we say? Her son is to young to keep quite about it how do you handle that? So pray for me to receive a blessing from our lord and savior.

Jack P.
In His name

I wouldnt make any move until your wife is okay with the idea. Accept the second woman gradually, and start with dating, and even bring your wife along for some of the dates. Its really just same way all relationships start. After there's potential, then you can tackle some of the other issues.

 

[Jack P.]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Thanks poly pride I don't plan on making any moves until I am sure she is ok and actually says "I think you should see if you can come to love this woman" the comment about the young child was from my wife it was one of her objections

Jack P.
In His Name

 

[Jack P.]

Re: Movement in correct direction

Update. My wife Jennifer has made huge steps. In her faith walk. We are currently taking baby steps toward opening our hearts and home to another woman. The wife and I have had many long talks about this. And by the way have learned what time of day to have said talks.

Jennifer has become active on the BF site taptalk and women's chat night. She also has started to look for chances to make new friends. ( the reasoning that the lord may use one of the friends to introduce the woman that will become best friends with Jennifer and that might grow to love between all three of us)

Now before some of you go jumping on your band wagon about I am suppose to be in control of all this. I am in prefect control of it. If I would met someone I would introduce her to Jennifer, if they can develop a friendship and through that process I find she is someone I could love then we move forward. If Jennifer is the one who mets someone that she thinks is a good fit then she can introduce her to me.

In all of the discussions we have had the ,decision was made that we would pattern the whole second wife courtship after the way our marriage started. We were friends first before the first date. And that removed all the mask of "I want him / her to like me so I had better act in a manner that will only show my best side"
We were who we were warts and all we weren't looking for love we weren't even looking for a new best friend, the lord worked all that out. We just liked being around one a another.
So we think that is one of the reasons that we have stayed together so long. With a very small amount of disagreement between us of the years.

So we think that if we put our selves in places that we are likely to met new people , then the lord will put who ever there also.

We also know that just because I like ("her") or Jennifer likes ("her") doesn't mean that the other will and to continue to have a peaceful house that strives to show love as Jesus did everyone in the home has to like and love each other.

So at the risk of not being long winded enough I will end here with the update for now.

Corey Deo
Jack P.