• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

No outrage about yet another Texas church raid

Mark C

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
I just sent the following letter to the local newspaper editor. Don't know if they'll print it yet, but I figured that I'd post it here for comments in any event.

=============================================================================================




Editor –



The latest Texas church raid, and the lack of outrage, is disturbing.

Data shows that the teen pregnancy rate for the girls now in custody is slightly better than the majority of Texas counties, at 45 per 1,000, and MUCH better than the average for other ethnic and religious minorities there.

If this public silence reflected disdain for teenage pregnancy, most of Texas should be in CPS custody by now.



We have long been informed that “oral” no longer applies to “sex”, especially if high-ranking politicians are involved. Age difference didn’t seem to matter in the obvious example, either, so those excuses don't sell.



Today's Publik Skools not only teach youngsters that sex is fine, but how to do it. This is obviously being accomplished, according to polls and studies, not only sequentially, but even in groups. So the problem cannot be the polygamy issue, at least so far as mere multiple ‘partners’ are concerned. And anything so carefully State-Sanctioned cannot, by definition, be child abuse.



Finally, if popular public policy simply had to do with harassing minority religions that fail to teach kids proper TV-approved, politically-correct behavior, why is it that mosques which indoctrinate juvenile jidahis according to the plain text of the Koran have so far remain unscathed?



We are left with this:

The Almighty State now evidently defines “marriage”, and approves churches, rather than God.

So if a church rejects this substitute God, and lets children “marry” - why, the Hounds of Hell may invade, kidnap ALL the children, search everyone’s property, and “eat out their substance” - based on mere hearsay.

The fact that the Generally Dumb Public is ignorant of both Biblical and Constitutional law, and apathetic as well, says everything we need to know about what has happened to this former Republic.
 
I agree with the FLDS on very little, and I know a bit about them, having had direct contact in the past. And make no mistake, they went "around the bend" in 2002, with their new leader. Warren Jeffs went asking for trouble, and got it - with his own charges. (Talk about "absolute power" corrupting...) My biggest issue is not with debating marriage at a particular age, or arranged marriage in general - it's with the lack of freedom to say "no" to a particular marriage, without being told you are going to Hell if you do say "no". We can talk about "freedom of religion", but when there's no "freedom IN your religion", no right to "critically examine everything, hold on to the good" - that screams "oppressive cult" to me. Which is exactly what I'm willing to label the FLDS. Coerced marriages (of young girls) have been happening in recent years - the only debate is how many and at what ages. And "critical thinking", that we take for granted, is squashed right out of most men and women - by fear of excommunication, Hellfire, and spouse reassignment. I don't believe that constitutes a return to Biblical patriarchal family life that would please the Lord - setting aside other religious nonsense they believe, for now.

That said, on the mass child roundup matter at hand, you don't have to agree with them at all to realize this: if it happens to a group that people "really don't like" today, it can happen to anybody tomorrow.

Jay from Germany sent this thoughtful blog on this issue:
http://messengerandadvocate.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/the-lies-of-texas-are-upon-us/

Surely there would have a common-sense approach to go after specific problems/abusers, and work to get some reforms and a return to earlier behavior, in the current "power vacuum". But we don't have much common-sense left in our governments it seems. It's all or nothing. Let's even take the boys, who nobody's accused of being abused at any age. This absolutely seems like the poster child for outrageous Child Protective Services actions, and whittling away of individual and parental rights, that has concerned many of us for years now.

So I'm in fundamental agreement about over-reaching government action - and I'm more upset about it as the days go by. Power corrupts at every level, apparently.

But I don't see the FLDS as anything to hold up as admirable - forced adherence to some moral code (of their own making) does not bring the heart change that God desires. They don't teach their girls much of ANYTHING after a certain age, except fear,and to "keep sweet". If we want to shout "freedom" to our governments, and try to restore it for our children's benefit - then we should also shout it to the FLDS, and try to restore some freedom for THEIR children's benefit, after they are brought home. Unfortunately it appears their children may just be bouncing between their leader's tyranny and Texas tyranny. I'm reminded of the execution scene in BraveHeart, where he yells "freedom"... he was just as opposed to oppression from Scottish lords as from English Kings.

Ripping all the kids from their parents, and exposing them to who-knows-what in foster care, for how ever many weeks this goes on (I'm fairly certain most will be returned at some point) is not the answer to providing real freedom of choice and religion for these poor children.
 
Agreed, marriage should be consensual. That said, I know there were arranged marriages in the bible, but it does look like the potential mates were given a choice. Case in point, Isaac and Rebecca. She was given choice, and she chose to go, she didn't have to, but I think she was a woman of faith. Same with Isaac, I think he trusted his father, and might well have known of the vow of his servant, but nowhere do I see anyone coerced.
Even in the raising up seed for your fallen brother, there was an out option. Yes, it shamed you, but it was an out....

It seems to me any quality young lady IF she went in sincerety to her father, all but the Nabal's would listen. Guess that's what some (I dare say not all FLDS) might be, Nabals....
 
Sadly, it's not the Nabal's in Texas, and Washington, which are the real problem, it's the Sauls, and the Ahabs.

The servants of the 'prince of this world' have now, once again, not only demonstrated contempt for the Law, but established another precedent for his coming 'Mark', by kidnapping and numbering over four hundred people without lawful warrant, trial, or even "two witnesses".

(The irony of what those who hate God's Word have accomplished with respect to marriage here should not be overlooked, but it is not the central issue - only a propaganda sideshow. Notice how multiple wives are to be associated with "Mormon Fundamentalism", rather than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and David, in spite of the obvious Biblical issues and differences. It will take a while for the demonization to be extended to "Homeschooling Fundamentalists", but the path is now clear, and any opposition is ignorantly silent. What Hosea 4:6 warned of is still very true.)
 
Outrage?

Most of it in media has come from Michael Savage but he tends to sell outrage more than specifics. If you check my blog, which is my home page there are some links to outrage, legal, libertarian and religious.

Hugh
 
from that site you posted
"Maybe, rather than focusing on the family arrangements of an isolated Texas religious sect, we should be asking ourselves what was wrong with this picture: Even as CPS was herding the last of the FLDS girls off to distant foster care facilities late last month, American Internet users were so eager to see Annie Liebovitz's revealing Vanity Fair photos of 15-year-old Miley Cyrus that the magazine's website crashed."
Now, I'm sure there were a few young fans wanting to see that, but I really doubt it was the bulk of the fan audience going to that site, so why is it society condemns what the FLDS did in such strong terms, but it's obvious that there are many in society that would do the same thing if they thought they could get away with it.

meh... I'm so sick of society...
 
Hi:
I'm ted a new member, and Polygamist to be.

I'm aware of BOTH church raids. However, the record needs to be set straight on a few things. first, Daid Koresh, made it appear as though it were an approval of God, that h sleep with other mens wives, and the men were not, cause it was considered adultery. Little did David know, he preached falesly, and if anything, he was guilty f the adultery he stated that the husbnds would be guilty of.

In the BIBLE, it sates clearly, "Beware of false profits, for they bare false witness and preach doctrine of men." What that means is, if it isn't in the Bible, then it isn't so. that also goes wih the other Biblepassage then, "anyone wo addith or taketh away from the bible, all the curses ofthe bible shall be added unto them."

Such was the circumsances thatled to Davids own undoing. furthermore, he was haveing sex with minors as young as 10 and 11 years of age. I am against child molestors, pedifiles, etc. David became that, when he messed with the children. The God i love would never condone such an abomination.

HOWEVER, it is only fair to see things from the other side of Davids issue. the way the ATF handled the situation was ALSO wrong. As of TODAY, youwill NEVER see the video of the Flame throwing tank, burning David, the sisters-wives, and the husbands; because of the great government conspiracy to cover that up. Yet, it made an airing for which i saw once. then, it was mysteriously removed from that part of the video. why? Cause the government would have been seen as murderers, and thus would be no better than Hitler and the consentration camp, where the jewish men, women, and children were burned alive.

It was MASS MURDER, for which the officials guilty of such acts, should be found guilty and put to death. But, as we know our government, that will NEVER happen...

As to the recent Church raid, I agree on this part, for te following reasons:
* There was NO substantial evidence to prove the children were being impregnated, like that of David Koresh.
* There was NO evidence of Military weapons on the compund, like David Koresh.
* They enacted based on someones hear-say. Thus, it is SLANDER!
Without proof, there isNO reason to raid, or otherwise, KIDNAP the children. And that is what it was. Kidnapping. BUT, again, te government seems to be able to get away with it, as they don't feel they should be held accountable.
Could this be the reason, why alot of Polygamists have fears? That the government can get away with kidnappin, murder, and raiding christian homes and organizaions all because of hearsay? It makes yu think. obviousl, Kidnapping has happened 2x in Texas. Murder 1x, and raiding twice. In the Bible, it states that there will be atime, where such acts are the signs of his return. WE need to be ready for that time, because there is yet to be the worst. ?Will we be redy in time, when the government enacts future misery for all :? of us?
 
I know this may sound like it's barbaric to many, but you can't have it both ways. You can't say the government can police families to insure freedoms that it decides are mandatory... without giving them the right to police all your family does. You can't say they can make you not pressure your children with words of "you're going to hell if you don't marry him", without giving them the right to make you not pressure your children with words of "you're going to hell if you don't repent and stop your harlotry".

Notice the laws God gave the Israelites. Notice what He polices and what He told them to make sure of. Yes, there is pressure in such. It's a family matter. If you want to rule the household yourself, go and do so. If not, let them live. Their marriages may have more force involved than you find right... but check your judgments at the door against this scripture.
James 4:11 said:
...Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
This principal does not simply apply to brothers. We are told elsewhere to judge our brothers. The difference is that we are not to go beyond what is written. We are not to judge beyond the law God judges with. If we do we are not judging man, but the laws of God and God Himself.

We need to realize that a man's household is his household. If He is foolish His household will fall. If He is wise, it will stand. A foolish king will oppress his people, and lose them all by himself. He doesn't need a government to do it for him.

We cannot stradle the fence. Either the government and popular opinion... popular psychobable theology... can judge a family or it can't. Ether it can police a marriage and a household... or it can't. Either it can act as father and mother, and choose who can have children and what they can do with them, or it can't. You can't have it both ways. You can't put the government as the head of the household, and refuse him as head at the same time. Either government is husband and father, or you are. It can't be both ways.
 
sadanyagci said:
We cannot stradle the fence. Either the government and popular opinion... popular psychobable theology... can judge a family or it can't. Ether it can police a marriage and a household... or it can't. Either it can act as father and mother, and choose who can have children and what they can do with them, or it can't. You can't have it both ways. You can't put the government as the head of the household, and refuse him as head at the same time. Either government is husband and father, or you are. It can't be both ways.
dadgumit, son:
yer hittin on all eight cylinders here.
and truthfully, it is awfully scarey to embrace the idea that we cannot use the government to force others to do what we consider is the correct thing to do. we want laws to keep everyone "safe" and assume that others will not use laws to cause us to live the way that seemeth right unto them.
 
yes, well said sadan,

the trouble with slippery slopes is they are so danged slippery! once you tell a government that is has the right to infringe on anyone's rights, it knows it now has the right to infringe on ANYONE'S rights! and anyone includes you.
 
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. -- James Madison

No one even had to tell government to infringe, unfortunately. All that was necessary was for "good men to do nothing" when God Himself was rejected. Once the source of all Law was ignored, it is no surprise that "God-given Rights" were then denied.
 
Sadanyagci,

We need to realize that a man's household is his household. If He is foolish His household will fall. If He is wise, it will stand. A foolish king will oppress his people, and lose them all by himself. He doesn't need a government to do it for him.

We cannot stradle the fence. Either the government and popular opinion... popular psychobable theology... can judge a family or it can't. Ether it can police a marriage and a household... or it can't. Either it can act as father and mother, and choose who can have children and what they can do with them, or it can't. You can't have it both ways. You can't put the government as the head of the household, and refuse him as head at the same time. Either government is husband and father, or you are. It can't be both ways.

With all sincerity I say to you all, this is one wise man.
 
Back
Top