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Nothing good ever came from polygamy... .

frederick

frederick

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
So this statement (or one similar) comes up in discussions about polygamy and I'm wondering what responses you have used? It gets thrown into the discussion and then followed with vague unsubstantiated references to Ishmael and his descendants being the source of all Israel's problems.

My current response is to ask who was born first Ishmael or Isaac, then to ask through whom did the Messiah come? And then to ask if Jacob was a polygamist and did the Messiah come through him? And then David.... ? The key figures in the genealogy of our Savior are polygamists!

Now I know it's going to be heart wrenchingly difficult for some but guys, try and stick to the topic. :eek: :)
 
Sometimes I just say “If it was easy, anybody could do it”. Implying that if all that they can see are the problems, it is probably not for them. Anyone approaching poly expecting that it will provide them an idyllic life is delusional.
 
I say, I will see your poly family issues and raise you one. If your hang up with polygyny is that some polygynists in the Bible had family issues, then you must also condemn monogamy. Right? Then I say we must start with the “rule of first mention” (kind of a, two birds one stone thing) and then just start listing monogamist’s family issues:

Adam and Eve (“the monogamy archetype”) The first fruit of the first monogamist union became the first murderer and killed the second fruit of that same monogamist union.

The first monogamist brought sin down upon the entire world. Every war ever fought, every baby who has ever been aborted, every person who has ever starved to death, every person who has ever been molested or raped, every horrific, horrible, vile, evil thing that has ever befallen mankind is the direct result of a monogamist relationship.... tell me again about ishmael?
 
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Asforme&myhouse said:
The first monogamist brought sin down upon the entire world. Every war ever fought, every baby who has ever been aborted, every person who has ever starved to death, every person who has ever been molested or raped, every horrific, horrible, vile, evil thing that has ever befallen mankind is the direct result of a monogamist relationship.... tell me again about ishmael?
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Monogamist-only people seem to be blind to this reality.
 
I suppose as a responce to the thread title, in light of Adam, one could say that nothing good has ever come from monogamy. Just force the other person to defend monogamy in the same way they try to force pro polygynists to defend the validity of polygyny.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
I suppose as a responce to the thread title, in light of Adam, one could say that nothing good has ever come from monogamy. Just force the other person to defend monogamy in the same way they try to force pro polygynists to defend the validity of polygyny.
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Extrapolating one step further, has anything good ever come from humans?
 
Great points, everyone, but I just yesterday finished watching the whole 25-episode series of videos by Brian Kelson that were recently gathered together in one place by @PeteR here on Biblical Families, and a couple of them fully explained what the actual issue was with Ishmael and Isaac: it wasn't jealousy; it wasn't family problems; it was plain and simple an issue about heredity, which had been established prior to the birth of either son. Abraham's covenant would be fulfilled through Sarah's son, and that had come into dispute.

Of course, heredity disputes never happen in monogamous families.
 
One of my church leaders once challenged me with a very similar question.

"Name one place in the bible where polygamy is spoken of in a positive manner"

One place I might point to is Ruth 4:11

Then all the people who were at the gate and the elders said, “We are witnesses. May the Lord make the woman, who is coming into your house, like Rachel and Leah, who together built up the house of Israel. May you act worthily in Ephrathah and be renowned in Bethlehem​

Here is why I like this particular verse. If I say the following:
The Messiah came from polygynists therefore it is good (or something similar)
​
Then the response I get is something like
Well, God sometimes works through sinful men or sinful acts.
​
Ruth 4:11 can quickly shut down this sort of response though, because its obvious that the people and the elders in this verse are attributing something good as a result of polygyny, the fact that the house of Israel was built up in this way.

So, the biblical answer is: The house of Israel is the good thing that came from polygyny per Ruth 4:11. (And of course, Messiah)
 
Sand Bee said:
One of my church leaders once challenged me with a very similar question.

"Name one place in the bible where polygamy is spoken of in a positive manner"

One place I might point to is Ruth 4:11

Then all the people who were at the gate and the elders said, “We are witnesses. May the Lord make the woman, who is coming into your house, like Rachel and Leah, who together built up the house of Israel. May you act worthily in Ephrathah and be renowned in Bethlehem​

Here is why I like this particular verse. If I say the following:
The Messiah came from polygynists therefore it is good (or something similar)
​
Then the response I get is something like
Well, God sometimes works through sinful men or sinful acts.
​
Ruth 4:11 can quickly shut down this sort of response though, because its obvious that the people and the elders in this verse are attributing something good as a result of polygyny, the fact that the house of Israel was built up in this way.

So, the biblical answer is: The house of Israel is the good thing that came from polygyny per Ruth 4:11. (And of course, Messiah)
Click to expand...
Triple Like
 
frederick said:
Have you ever used that/said that?
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No, because I'm not usually the one having the conversation with people, Samuel is. I stay out of it. I have no idea if he's said it though. Normally he turns around that statement to be about how monogamy is a mess too and takes it back to Adam and Eve.
 
Sand Bee said:
One of my church leaders once challenged me with a very similar question.

"Name one place in the bible where polygamy is spoken of in a positive manner"

One place I might point to is Ruth 4:11

Then all the people who were at the gate and the elders said, “We are witnesses. May the Lord make the woman, who is coming into your house, like Rachel and Leah, who together built up the house of Israel. May you act worthily in Ephrathah and be renowned in Bethlehem​

Here is why I like this particular verse. If I say the following:
The Messiah came from polygynists therefore it is good (or something similar)
​
Then the response I get is something like
Well, God sometimes works through sinful men or sinful acts.
​
Ruth 4:11 can quickly shut down this sort of response though, because its obvious that the people and the elders in this verse are attributing something good as a result of polygyny, the fact that the house of Israel was built up in this way.

So, the biblical answer is: The house of Israel is the good thing that came from polygyny per Ruth 4:11. (And of course, Messiah)
Click to expand...
That’s excellent... the elders certainly saw it as something blessed
 
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Sand Bee said:
One of my church leaders once challenged me with a very similar question.

"Name one place in the bible where polygamy is spoken of in a positive manner"

One place I might point to is Ruth 4:11

Then all the people who were at the gate and the elders said, “We are witnesses. May the Lord make the woman, who is coming into your house, like Rachel and Leah, who together built up the house of Israel. May you act worthily in Ephrathah and be renowned in Bethlehem​
Click to expand...
​

Excellent, @Sand Bee, but we also have to remember that we don't owe it to naysayers to prove that we're righteous. That is between us and Yah. Sometimes I engage with critics by answering their questions and parrying with their Pharisaic efforts to condemn through debate, but I'm also just as likely to immediately turn the whole conversation around to discussing the possibility that marriage itself should maybe be curtailed by Christianity, given the mountains of evidence of how much of a failure it can represent. The typical result is for them to so vehemently defend and promote marriage that I can't resist the urge to then ask them if marriage is something that only some women should have the opportunity to be part of.
 
Sand Bee said:
One of my church leaders once challenged me with a very similar question.

"Name one place in the bible where polygamy is spoken of in a positive manner"
Click to expand...
The more I think about that question, the more it troubles me. It's the wrong question because polygamy isn't differentiated from monogamy as though they were opposing standards for marital relationships. God doesn't speak any differently about the outcome from the union of a man with one wife over another of his wives. Multiple times throughout the Bible God identifies Himself as the "God of Israel" or the "Lord God of Israel" and Israel is the nation descended from Jacob and his four wives. Passages such as Psalm 72:18 make this distinction most specific: Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, Who only does wondrous things!

Because the world has been so thoroughly duped and blinded as to who God is, they miss the blessedness of God speaking of Himself as the God of a polygamous family.

So in answer to you church leader's challenge @Sand Bee, I'd say God speaks of Himself in a most positive manner when He refers to Himself as the God of Israel; a nation descended from Jacob's family. And woe to anyone who speaks against the God of Israel. Shalom
 
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