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One flesh

Mojo

Mojo

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27 Come and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites, and let not our hand be upon him, for he is our brother and our flesh.” And his brothers listened. 28 Then Midianite traders passed by......

I think I will start using this verse more from Genesis when people argue that "one flesh" means that only two can be united in one, or that "one flesh" is some mystical union through sex that the pagans promoted.

This verse uses the same Hebrew word, and clearly indicates "family".

Another rendering of "one flesh" from the REVISED STANDARD MOJO VERSION would be: "They shall leave their previous family (father and mother) and be united into one new family (flesh)."
 
interesting comparison. i never even considered looking for other uses of the word flesh and its usage. that does further support the de-mystification of the one-flesh ideology.
 
I've always held to this belief, but only cemented it and systemized it after listening to Dr. Luck. It goes something like this."..if we believe the Bible to be true and inspired, and we believe God to be truthful, and not deceptive, then our scriptures cannot contradict each other...ever! The OT and NT are harmonious and tell the same story."

The Hebrew of the OT is usually translated as "they shall become one flesh". The Septuagint translated it as "two shall become one flesh"

There seems to be a conflict, and the immediate conclusion is to consult the NT as truer because it's from Jesus, our savior. If Jesus says he didn't come to destroy the Law (Torah included ALL the Pentateuch) then that Genesis verse about one flesh needs to be clarified against the NT.

Using scripture to comment on scripture, I think the story of the twelve tribes fits perfectly. There were 12 brothers, but they were "ONE" flesh.

We trinitarians ( I presume most of us on here are) clearly understand that three can be one. The "shall be one" in Genesis 2 Hebrew implies "unity", but not exclusivity in my mind. The Father, and Son are united in Godhood, but aren't exclusive. The Spirit is equally united. So, a man and woman can be one (united) flesh (family) but not necessarily exclusive in that family relationship.

Hope I made sense. I think the story of Joseph proves this point.
 
@Mojo, I think this is an interesting thread, and I think you are onto something that "one flesh" likely meant something like "one family", but I think those who would debate this with you might say that there is a difference in the verse you quoted from Genesis 37 and Genesis 2:24 because Genesis 37:27 doesn't say "one flesh", it only says "flesh". I think those who would debate would say that Joseph and his brothers did share flesh, but "one flesh" implies something more.

I do need some help though - as I read your most recent thread, I am not connecting the dots well. Is the conflict you are referring to the OT "they" vs. the NT "two"? If so, I am not particularly bothered by this. The Hebrew doesn't say, "they", it more literally says, "This reason man leave father mother cleave wife/woman become one flesh." I don't think either translation changes much with they vs. two. If I'm missing something, let me know.
 
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aineo said:
@Mojo, I think this is an interesting thread, and I think you are onto something that "one flesh" likely meant something like "one family", but I think those who would debate this with you might say that there is a difference in the verse you quoted from Genesis 37 and Genesis 2:24 because Genesis 37:27 doesn't say "one flesh", it only says "flesh". I think those who would debate would say that Joseph and his brothers did share flesh, but "one flesh" implies something more.

I do need some help though - as I read your most recent thread, I am not connecting the dots well. Is the conflict you are referring to the OT "they" vs. the NT "two"? If so, I am not particularly bothered by this. The Hebrew doesn't say, "they", it more literally says, "This reason man leave father mother cleave wife/woman become one flesh." I don't think either translation changes much with they vs. two. If I'm missing something, let me know.
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It was quite late, so maybe my wires were crossing. Thanks for helping me to "flesh" this out...pun intended!

Genesis 2:24 only implies more if you have a preconceived reason to make it imply more. If you've been indoctrinated to see the marriage union as mystical, it might not suffice to be simply flesh=family. You would want something deeper and more significant. I do view marriage not simply as a carnal relationship, but also as allegorical to the relationship of God to man/Israel and Christ to Church. But, even here, the family concept would fit. The NT references adoption along with conversion...family anyone???

I only brought up the discrepancy in OT and NT because most who disagree with polygyny say that the "two" qualifier from the NT shows exclusivity in a marriage to ONLY two and that one flesh can only happen with two exclusively, not concurrently with as many "one flesh" relationships a man wants to enter into.

Please open up more holes in this for me. It's a new argument for me (maybe not for others) so I want to be sure I am on a logical, biblical path.
 
Sonny Chancelor said:
Where can you "listen" to Dr. Luck"? Please indicate what media or resource you are using to listen to him?
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YouTube
He conducted several sessions for Biblical Families retreats and has a series of videos where he lays out the OT justification for polygyny.

They are great.
 
1 Cor. 12:12. For as the body is one and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Vrs. 20. But now are they many members, yet but one body.

Was visiting in a church last Wednesday as I'm working out of town and just happened to read this passage dealing with the church or the body of Christ.
If you know anything about Jewish wedding or betrothal ceremonies , that's what this passage is all about.
Baptism is a public profession that you have accepted the private offer of marriage and have drunk from the cup. You have been empowered as family by the Spirit ( the friend of the groom) and kiddushin (wedding gifts) and are counted as one 'body' or flesh with your spouse to be along with any others that he has entered into covenant with whether they are a handmaiden that he bound to himself or a free woman with a ketubah. All are one in Him.
 
Seems kind of silly for the different churches to argue over which one is really His bride, as if He's gonna pick and choose just one out of all of them who have entered covenant. Hmmm.
 
I suppose you could ask the pastor if he believes in the local church as an individual body of believers versus the catholic/universal body idea.
I can see the convo going something like this, I'm so glad you believe that. I've been studying poly for a while now and I knew there had to be a connection with Christ and His Church.
 
@Verifyveritas76 If you have additional points to make on a post, try clicking the "edit" button below it and just writing more, it's more compact and readable.

Good point, I hadn't looked at that passage that way before. This is one of those places where understanding polygyny helps us to better understand salvation.
 
Not only that, but ecclesia is plural, not singular.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Brethren is plural, Ye is plural, we is plural.

Each person, singularly, is married no longer to the Law, but now to Christ...forming a PLURAL marriage of each individual believer to one Bridegroom...Yeshua Hamashiach!!!

Forming....one body...one flesh!!!
 
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