Plain Curiosity

[courtney]

Hi everyone,
My name is Courtney I have been married to my husband for almost 4 years like sara i watch Big Love and it also made me curious about the life style of the modern day polygamist i understand that hollywood put its twist to the show so excuse me for using the show for an example as i dont know any polygamists personally, now let me tell you a little about myself first so no one thinks anything of what i say as anything but pure curiosity my mother is a Mormon, my father was a Jahovas Witness, myself and my sister are christians, good friends of ours are catholic, and a good friend of mine is a wiccan so like to think of myself as pretty open minded and i dont mean to offend anyone. i understand that in polygamy the man primarily has the say in things which i dont agree with i think that everyone in a relationship should have an opinion and that opinion should matter not just what the man says go's and also why is it all you ever hear about is a man with more than one woman why isnt there women with more than one husband i mean god bless her for wanting more than one man i know i wouldnt but it just seems to me that its like when a man gets tired of his wife or bored with her and wants something new or in some cases better he goes and finds someone else, to me if my husband came to me and said i think i want another wife that would be like him saying ok im bored with you your not good enough any more i want to find someone else but you can still stay around. now for an example, bill in big love has 3 wives and in a recent episode it came to light that he was taking viagra because his 2nd wife didnt turn him on any longer and his 3rd wife really really did he still loves his second wife but his love life isnt the same as it is with is newer younger wife. and as another example i watched a documentary on real polygamy familys and they did an interview with a wife and she said that the problem with the modern day society is a man is with one woman untill he sees someone else hes interested in, leaves the one hes with and goes for the new one and just keeps repeating the same thing over and over where as in polygamy if our husband finds someone else we get to stay and he still takes care of us. now coming out of her own mouth i dont see how she dosent have a problem with that, shes admitting that her husband will go out and find someone better but out of his good graces will let her stick around so its like to her its ok for him to do that as long as she can stay, personally i couldnt stay with someone knowing that im not good enough for him. Also in big love they practice polygamy to enter the celestial kingdom so i get their reasoning but why on earth would you want to go into a polygamist relationship having to deal with all the jealousey and problems for no reason but wanting to i understand it makes somethings easier especially when it comes to raising children and household chores but still. anyone out there wanting to chime in go right ahead please help me to understand. and if at all possible could i get a list of versus from the bible the talks about polygamy because my pastor is 100 percent against it but i also heard that god doesnt say in the bible that pural marriage is a sin but that he doesnt recommend it either. thanks to everyone.

 

[Mark C]

Sometimes a simple answer is best, Courtney - at least for a start.

There are a number of such answers to your question, and the best ones always start with the understanding that we are made by God, and that He has Written the rules for marriage. We will ALWAYS do better if we follow His plan and His ordinances for us.

But that 'simple' answer can be seen by looking around. We live in a culture of presumed 'monogamy'. Even the underlying theme of Big Love makes that same assumption - as you couldn't help but notice above. And it is not consistent with the way God made us, whether we like it or not, whether we even know it or not.

As a result, we see a world of "serial polygamy". Men and women who are TRAINED to believe the lie -- "there can be only one" -- repeatedly fail at marriage. Women leave, become hardened; men "put them away", looking for 'this year's new model'. They know there is something wrong, but are blind to why.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to see the "big picture" without accepting that our Designer actually knows what is best for us, and Wrote it out so we could learn from Him. Note that the Bible (Torah, in particular, but Hebrew in general) never distinguishes between "monogamy" and "polygyny" - no such distinction exists in the original language. Whether or not a man and his helpmeet practice the option of Exodus 21:10 (and so many others) is not nearly so important as that they understand how His design for marriage is to work.

Blessings,

Mark

 

[jay c]

Hi Courtney, and welcome! My apologies in advance if I misunderstood some of what you wrote. I had a hard time distinguishing where one sentence ended and the next began.

Hi everyone,
My name is Courtney I have been married to my husband for almost 4 years like sara i watch Big Love and it also made me curious about the life style of the modern day polygamist i understand that hollywood put its twist to the show so excuse me for using the show for an example as i dont know any polygamists personally, now let me tell you a little about myself first so no one thinks anything of what i say as anything but pure curiosity my mother is a Mormon, my father was a Jahovas Witness, myself and my sister are christians, good friends of ours are catholic, and a good friend of mine is a wiccan so like to think of myself as pretty open minded and i dont mean to offend anyone.

An open mind--to a certain extent--is a good thing. It is rare for people to be able to think objectively about other people's preferences, traditions, and beliefs.

i understand that in polygamy the man primarily has the say in things which i dont agree with i think that everyone in a relationship should have an opinion and that opinion should matter not just what the man says go's...

There are degrees of patriarchy. What you seem to be describing truly is an unfair arrangement. Most men cannot be complete without a woman (and vice versa). God made them to work together, and although the Biblical standard is that a husband has authority over his house, he should consult his wife on most important decisions. She has an opinion, and it will frequently be a very good one. A great patriarch isn't much different than the very best kings. He always seeks council before making decisions and makes his family's interests and desires a very high priority.

...and also why is it all you ever hear about is a man with more than one woman why isnt there women with more than one husband i mean god bless her for wanting more than one man i know i wouldnt...

One man with multiple wives is called "polygyny." One woman with multiple husbands is called "polyandry." Although polyandry has been practiced in a few times and places, polygyny has been the standard arrangement throughout human history. There are at least two reasons for that.

1. God made men and women to function in certain ways. Men are created to be better at some things and women at others. Every week it seems that we hear another story about how modern science is proving what the Bible teaches on that subject. One of those things at which men tend to be better than women is leadership. Certainly some women make excellent leaders, but on the whole, men tend to be better. In societies where one woman can have two or more husbands, the reality is actually two or more men sharing a wife and not one wife keeping two or more husbands. She winds up having all the same duties she would have with one man, but multiplied. She has two patriarchs instead of one. Yeshua said that no man can serve two masters, and this applies to marriage as well. Men inevitably tend to take charge in the house. If there are two husbands in a house, there will be conflict, and the woman will be stuck in the middle.
2. There are spiritual differences as well as physical and mental. Men and women were both created by God to fill certain roles. One of the roles he assigned to men was to be the leader of their houses. In order to help them with that, he gave them the natural authority to influence the spiritual dynamics within his family. He has the authority to nullify the vows of his wife and daughter, to intercede with God on their behalf, to allow or disallow spirits within his house. Those are inherent qualities that might not be apparent, but are talked about in the Bible, sometimes explicitly, sometimes not.

...but it just seems to me that its like when a man gets tired of his wife or bored with her and wants something new or in some cases better he goes and finds someone else, to me if my husband came to me and said i think i want another wife that would be like him saying ok im bored with you your not good enough any more i want to find someone else but you can still stay around. now for an example, bill in big love has 3 wives and in a recent episode it came to light that he was taking viagra because his 2nd wife didnt turn him on any longer and his 3rd wife really really did he still loves his second wife but his love life isnt the same as it is with is newer younger wife. and as another example i watched a documentary on real polygamy familys and they did an interview with a wife and she said that the problem with the modern day society is a man is with one woman untill he sees someone else hes interested in, leaves the one hes with and goes for the new one and just keeps repeating the same thing over and over where as in polygamy if our husband finds someone else we get to stay and he still takes care of us. now coming out of her own mouth i dont see how she dosent have a problem with that, shes admitting that her husband will go out and find someone better but out of his good graces will let her stick around so its like to her its ok for him to do that as long as she can stay, personally i couldnt stay with someone knowing that im not good enough for him.

I agree with you Courtney. That's a pretty sorry situation. Bringing a second woman into a dysfunctional house is asking for trouble. Fortunately, there are many other reasons for a man to want a second wife besides boredom with his first.

Also in big love they practice polygamy to enter the celestial kingdom so i get their reasoning but why on earth would you want to go into a polygamist relationship having to deal with all the jealousey and problems for no reason but wanting to i understand it makes somethings easier especially when it comes to raising children and household chores but still. anyone out there wanting to chime in go right ahead please help me to understand. and if at all possible could i get a list of versus from the bible the talks about polygamy because my pastor is 100 percent against it but i also heard that god doesnt say in the bible that pural marriage is a sin but that he doesnt recommend it either. thanks to everyone.

If I may toot my own horn... :-D I just finished writing a book that discusses almost every verse related to marriage in the first five books of the Bible. It should be in print in just a few weeks. You can read the introduction here: http://www.historycarper.com/wordpress/?page_id=608. The next couple of volumes will cover the rest of the Bible. Samuel Chapman has a good list that is specifically focused on polygamy at his web site: http://polygamypage.info.

 

[Doc]

Hello Courtney,

Welcome to the board, and feel free to look around, and ask a lot of questions. We have a section on the forums for Women Only, with several Christian women who are in plural families whom you can develop relationships with as well.

God bless you, and hope to hear more from your family!

Blesssings!

 

[Mark C]

[...list of Bible verses about polygamy] ...because my pastor is 100 percent against it but i also heard that god doesnt say in the bible that pural marriage is a sin but that he doesnt recommend it either.

Such a list is indeed long, Courtney. It is also frequently requested, and has resulted in a large number of very good articles, many of which are either here, or referenced, and several very good books as well. I'll try to post at list or a few additional specifics later.

Meanwhile, I would respectfully submit that no one who has actually ever read what God has to say on the subject could be "100% against" His specific Word. After all, God calls Himself a polygynist at least TWICE through His prophets (Jer. 3, Eze. 23 - both of which reference the idolatry/adultery of His wives against Him), and He also tells the "parable of the ten virgins" describing His return as a joyous multiple wedding. (This too, seems to be readily overlooked, mis-translated, or worse. )

God gave King David (a "man after God's own heart") multiple wives, and "would have given" him more. (II Sam. 12:8) The Savior Himself, and of course all twelve tribes of Israel, are descended through patriarchs who had more than one wife.

Early on in my studies, I found this argument compelling: You can't show me where a man having more than one wife is prohibited, but I can show you where it is required. (The "Law of the Levirate" in Deut. 25, is one; Paul's words in I Cor. 7 -- where a wife departs, but her wronged husband marries again, can be another -- when and if she repents and returns as commanded.)

God does not prohibit something (much less call it "abomination") and then give groundrules on its practice. (Ex. 21:10, Deu. 21:15, Deut. 17:17, and MANY more which can only be properly understood in light of His whole teaching!) Finally, look at all of the prohibited sexual unions in Lev. 18: many of them are redundant, and pointless, if one fails to understand the obvious -- a "father's wife" may not be the same thing as his son's only mother. Lev. 18:18 is equally clear. Even the oft-misunderstood prohibitions on elders or deacons ("husband of mia wife") is at WORST an acknowledgment that other believers may have more than one wife, even if they only have one FIRST wife!

Finally, if one wants to play the "condemnation" or "first mention" game, or try to show that polygyny is portrayed "negatively" in the Word - remember this:
The "man by whom SIN entered the world", Adam, is also proclaimed to be the First Monogamist! In other words, the model for the most famously failed marriage in all human history is monogamous. Some recommendation! But it does show the fallacy of such reasoning.

Get the electronic copy of Tom Shipley's book, Man and Woman in Biblical Law for an excellent, very scholarly, treatment, and a study of every such marriage in the Bible. Another contributor here, Jay Carper, has also just recently completed a fine work which analyzes every such verse in the Bible (Vol. 1 starts with the Torah, or first five Books.)

[Addendum: When I started this post, I hadn't seen Jay's entry, now above.
Here is the link to Tom Shipley's book:

http://www.newcovenantpatriarchy.com/im ... _Law_5.pdf ]

Well, hopefully that's a start...


Blessings,
Mark




Here are a few links to recent related threads or questions here:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=402#p3544
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=406#p3586
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=408#p3619

 

[Doc]

Very good Mark!