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Polygamy for Procreation??

Annella

Annella

New Member
Female
Hello
I come to Christian polygamy by way of secular polyamory. I spent years looking for a couple to be a second wife to. I had some wonderful experiences but nothing was permanent. One of my motivations for seeking a polyamorous arrangement was my own infertility. I didn't (and still don't) want to end a man's chance of being a father. I had never heard of modern day Christian polygamy in a first world country (except for Fundamentalist Mormon sects) until I discovered this forum a couple of days ago.

Despite my desire and attempts to be a second wife, I am surprised that I now find myself in a one man-one woman marriage! And my husband is absolutely confident that my infertility issues can be overcome with proper medical attention. My mind is blown away by the reports from doctors that seem to indicate that with appropriate intervention and help I might be able to have a child maybe.

And yet, I still feel strongly that I want a fertile sister wife in the family! I just have no confidence in my own ability to have a child. I have been remembering childhood Sunday school stories about barren women going to great lengths to help their husbands have a child. I understand those stories better now.

My questions are:
1) Am I wrong (according to the Bible) to be talking to my husband about a second wife?
2) Are there women - not just Fundamentalist Mormons - who believe Procreation really is the purpose of marriage? And would therefore be happy in a polygamous relationship where they know they were sought out specifically for Procreation not for some fantasy kinkyness or even for grand romantic ideas?
3) Do any of you have any experience with this? Will you please advise me?
4) Have any of you experience with both religious based poly relationships and secular polyamory? If so, how have you found them to be similar or different??
Thank you!
 
'ello

1) Nah. My belief is that women should be able to talk to their husbands about anything that's on their heart. The bible doesn't forbid any topic, and it is widely held here that polygamy is a 'good' thing that there'd be no reason to forbid it in any case. Unless your hubby has ended the conversation and forbidden any further talk of the matter, then submission is what submission is.

2-4) I have no relevant experience here, only opinions, so I'll leave these questions to those who have already paid the price.
 
I wish I had something to say, just responding so you see some activity. My opinion, and that's all this is, would be that it sounds like surrogacy might be a viable option.
 
Hi Annella. In answer your questions: @Slumberfreeze is quite right; there is nothing which God says in His word you can't talk with your husband about, and that certainly includes your husband taking another wife/wives. There are many biblical principals to keep in mind as you talk with your husband but "speaking the truth in love" would sum them up.
What various women believe, I don't personally know but there are lots of different beliefs and ideas held so I'm fairly sure there will be women who hold the beliefs you ask about. However, finding them might be the challenge.
Regarding your other questions; I have no experience specifically however both of my wives cannot have children; one because she is past the age (although we have children), but the other because of medical reasons - she had to have one ovary and her womb removed and she has no children. We have had a lot of discussion about various options for her to have a child but that is all.
From a biblical perspective, polygynous marriage is as right and proper as a monogamous marriage because each involves a life-long covenant between the husband and the wife. From all I have read and understand about polyarmory, it does not, and it can also involve the woman being sexually involved with more than one man. So in that regard, polygyny is quite different from secular polyarmory.
Blessings and thanks for the questions. :)
 
2b) In my observations of sane women, they tend to strongly desire to bear children, and perhaps as a [very] close second, have various romantic ideas for finding a man and being married to him. She might have talked about and pondered her wedding since she understood the concept at age six or seven or so.

Whatever her husband+sw-to-be's primary purpose is for adding her to the family, be it children, romance, extra hands around the house, or poly-fun; does not negate any secondary purposes. A proper marriage is a combination of many things that cannot be separated. Whatever righteous thing one categorizes as their primary purpose might only be a compatibility issue with the others if one of the others is not having a certain physical/emotional need/desire met; regardless of who categorizes what as their primary purpose.

So, for myself, I doubt that any potential sw will be unhappy about being brought on board with the idea of having children, so long as whatever other physical/emotional needs/desires she has are being sufficiently met.

3) Not with fertility specifically, but I have read about, seen first hand in others, and been given to accomplish it in myself; miraculous reversals in health, some even from the brink of death.... the apparent factor being changing the diet from eating things that are only called food, to eating things that are food. I met a woman one time who had previously been infertile and was taking beta-blockers. In the intervening time, she saw an herbalist, and greatly improved her health through various natural means. Eventually, she was able to stop taking the beta-blockers, and when I saw her, she was carrying her young son around on her back. I expect that whatever was causing her to "need" the beta-blockers was related to her infertility and fixing the cause of one fixed both.

As for diet modification, I posted a short write-up about things to eliminate from the diet, and what foods might be particularly helpful to add to the diet. Something I didn't mention there is to eliminate gluten from the diet (wheat, and many processed "foods".). Avoid drinking tap water (see below); instead, get spring water by the gallon in recycle #2. Don't saute or otherwise burn or brown your food at all. Doing so breaks down and damages the various compounds in the food, and this includes oils. Stay clear of canola oil.

Touching on fertility specifically, if you have been diagnosed with some certain condition, such as PCOS, then I suggest going to Google and YouTube and searching for "{condition} cure naturally" or "healed my {condition}". There may be specific nutritional therapies that are applicable, but just fixing the diet is the second most important step to curing an enormous swath of diseases (after turning to God (for those who haven't)). Vita is successfully recovering from Hashimoto's disease using diet and supplements. Here is a fun post at FoodBabe She Gave Up Processed Food, And WHOA! Look At Her Results! Looking at the paleo before and after pictures in Google Images is very interesting. (Warning; link contains many pictures of women in bikini levels of dress)

Whatever is causing your infertility; of a certainty we know that it is not a dietary deficiency of whatever drug the doctors might propose to treat it with. The damage caused by Thalidomide maybe ought not to be forgotten, and who can say which drug is next?

Dr. Mercola has many articles relating to female fertility challenges (diet modification is a common theme)
female fertility - Search Results
The user comments at the bottom of each article tend to be very helpful also.

If you decide to pursue a diet based approach to fertility healing, I would suggest taking righteous steps to be sure not to get pregnant until two or thee years after such a time as you see significant improvement in your health. Your health may improve to the point where you can get pregnant, but are not ready to deliver as healthy of a child as you could with additional years of improving your health. I would recommend reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration By Dr. Weston A. Price. Dr. Price was a dentist who looked a primitive cultures and their diet and teeth and physical health, and in 1939 published his findings. Poor maternal health/diet leads to crooked teeth in the child, whereas better maternal health/diet leads to straight teeth. Postnatal diet is critical also, including being breastfed as long as is feasible, but three+ years seems beneficial. I have personally seen the difference that maternal heath/diet produces. First born; crooked teeth. Second and third; straight teeth. The father learned a lot between #'s 1 and 2, and he improved his wife's diet after #1. I am not speaking about myself here.

Here are some links about birth-control chemicals in the water supply. There are still the usual questions of cause-vs-effect, but it's sure that drinking and showering in contraceptive residue (some hormone disrupting) isn't doing you any good (except Rom 8:28)
Report: Contraceptive Pill Chemicals Are Turning Fish Transgender - Breitbart
Blog: Low sperm counts? Report fails to mention birth control in water supplies
You Drank Contraceptives Today and Didn't Even Know It - Breitbart
birth control water supply sperm - Google Search
Does it matter that hormonal contraceptives are endocrine disrupting chemicals? - Society for Menstrual Cycle Research
 
frederick said:
From a biblical perspective, polygynous marriage is as right and proper as a monogamous marriage because each involves a life-long covenant between the husband and the wife. From all I have read and understand about polyarmory, it does not, and it can also involve the woman being sexually involved with more than one man. So in that regard, polygyny is quite different from secular polyarmory.
Blessings and thanks for the questions. :)
Click to expand...
#4) I am not, nor have I ever been a practitioner of either form. My understanding, however, is that the practitioners of polyamory essentially set their own guidelines and rules of engagement. A biblical marriage is not conventional from a societal standpoint, but it would follow all the same rules and guidelines given in scripture (which apply to monogamous or polygynous marriages).

Polygynous Biblical marriages are polyamorous.
Not all polyamorous groupings are true Biblical marriages.
 
A few of us posted thoughts on polyamory when a question about it arose in another thread here a few months ago.

Elsewhere I've put it this way: "The urge for biblical polygyny is patriarchal, hierarchical, and tribal, while the urge toward gay marriage (marriage equality, etc.) is feminist, egalitarian, and anti-tribal." Polyamorists seem to align with the latter set — though I suppose there's nothing to stop a polyamorous man and his women in a closed group from choosing to seek the former.
 
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mystic said:
A few of us posted thoughts on polyamory when a question about it arose in another thread here a few months ago.

Elsewhere I've put it this way: "The urge for biblical polygyny is patriarchal, hierarchical, and tribal, while the urge toward gay marriage (marriage equality, etc.) is feminist, egalitarian, and anti-tribal." Polyamorists seem to align with the latter set — though I suppose there's nothing to stop a polyamorous man and his women in a closed group from choosing to seek the former.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I think in your answer on that thread you left out people like me. Polyamory is what some women are (mis-) lead into when we see and acknowledge the benefits of having a sister-wife but spend years unable to find anyone but swingers who might see beyond monogamy. It is a HORRIBLE failing by non-monogamous communities that promote committed family arrangements to not be as visible to women as swinger and polyamory groups are. It leaves women believing they have no means of entering non-monogamous COMMITTED relationships. This is why I joined this forum. Is the first one I've seen that isn't just for sleazy hookups.
 
Annella said:
It is a HORRIBLE failing by non-monogamous communities that promote committed family arrangements to not be as visible to women as swinger and polyamory groups are.
Click to expand...

The problem with being more visible within the cultural settings most of us live is that it can be/become quite problematic. It seems that since polygyny is biblical it is far more actively opposed from all sides. So most of us fly under the radar to avoid attracting anti-polygyny fire! :eek: ;)
 
frederick said:
The problem with being more visible within the cultural settings most of us live is that it can be/become quite problematic. It seems that since polygyny is biblical it is far more actively opposed from all sides. So most of us fly under the radar to avoid attracting anti-polygyny fire! :eek: ;)
Click to expand...
It's why most on here don't normally use our real names or use our self portrait as an avatar.
 
Annella said:
I think in your answer on that thread you left out people like me. [... We] see and acknowledge the benefits of having a sister-wife but spend years unable to find anyone but swingers who might see beyond monogamy.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Annella, you're right. Leadership in this requires patience and compassion. In my cantankerousness I often forget that.
 
Annella said:
4) Have any of you experience with both religious based poly relationships and secular polyamory? If so, how have you found them to be similar or different??
Click to expand...

Early in my understanding of polygamy, I joined the local polyamory e-mail list, thinking they might be allies. There were some interesting conversations and I think I opened some of their eyes by discussion of polygamy and the Bible with them. Some were interested, but overall there was a hostile vibe. I would think that even polyamorists would think that living married happily forever (polygamy) would be the ultimate expression of polyamory, but that was not the case. They seemed hostile to the idea and preferred their primaries and secondaries. Perhaps too many of them viewed polygamy with the illegal stereotypes? Or it could be that they sensed the patriarchy and they hated that.

There was some overlap in say learning how to live in complex family situations, and how to live as an outcast in mainstream society, but for the most part it was more different than alike because of the different values and motivations and I saw no value in staying subscribed.
 
Annella said:
Thank you! I think in your answer on that thread you left out people like me. Polyamory is what some women are (mis-) lead into when we see and acknowledge the benefits of having a sister-wife but spend years unable to find anyone but swingers who might see beyond monogamy. It is a HORRIBLE failing by non-monogamous communities that promote committed family arrangements to not be as visible to women as swinger and polyamory groups are. It leaves women believing they have no means of entering non-monogamous COMMITTED relationships. This is why I joined this forum. Is the first one I've seen that isn't just for sleazy hookups.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct! This is where a lot of us monogamists need to step up and be vocal. It's a little harder for practicing families with children in the home. We who don't risk anything except derision need to speak up.

This is what makes Andrew and Nathan so special. They still have children in the home and yet they put themselves front and center, and in Andrews case even plaster their family picture on the homepage ! I get chills running up my leg just thinking about it.
 
cnystrom said:
Early in my understanding of polygamy, I joined the local polyamory e-mail list, thinking they might be allies. There were some interesting conversations and I think I opened some of their eyes by discussion of polygamy and the Bible with them. Some were interested, but overall there was a hostile vibe. I would think that even polyamorists would think that living married happily forever (polygamy) would be the ultimate expression of polyamory, but that was not the case. They seemed hostile to the idea and preferred their primaries and secondaries. Perhaps too many of them viewed polygamy with the illegal stereotypes? Or it could be that they sensed the patriarchy and they hated that.

There was some overlap in say learning how to live in complex family situations, and how to live as an outcast in mainstream society, but for the most part it was more different than alike because of the different values and motivations and I saw no value in staying subscribed.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking it's mostly attributable to a commitment phobic society first, then patriarchal/male headship second. Maybe reversed, but does it matter? Those are the two big ones.
 
Mojo said:
I'm thinking it's mostly attributable to a commitment phobic society first, then patriarchal/male headship second. Maybe reversed, but does it matter? Those are the two big ones.
Click to expand...

Polyamory is very much based on the free love spirit of the hippie movement. So they are inherently uncomfortable with traditional marriage and hierarchy. From the outside a lot of it looks to me like framework for convincing men its ok to be cucks; which is quite opposite to polygyny.
 
cnystrom said:
Early in my understanding of polygamy, I joined the local polyamory e-mail list, thinking they might be allies. There were some interesting conversations and I think I opened some of their eyes by discussion of polygamy and the Bible with them. Some were interested, but overall there was a hostile vibe. I would think that even polyamorists would think that living married happily forever (polygamy) would be the ultimate expression of polyamory, but that was not the case. They seemed hostile to the idea and preferred their primaries and secondaries. Perhaps too many of them viewed polygamy with the illegal stereotypes? Or it could be that they sensed the patriarchy and they hated that.

There was some overlap in say learning how to live in complex family situations, and how to live as an outcast in mainstream society, but for the most part it was more different than alike because of the different values and motivations and I saw no value in staying subscribed.
Click to expand...
Very similar experiences. Thought there would be some overlap and opportunities for witness, got used to describing our family as a closed MFFF quad, but couldn't find much real interest in a permanent polygynous framework, and I eventually lost interest in the scene.

I think one driving issue is that the idea that you should be able to love whomever you want is closely tied to the idea that you love whenever you want. I don't have any hard stats, but my overall impression was that quantity was inversely correlated with duration....
 
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