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Question about my Daughter

ADHERE

ADHERE

Member
Many of you all at BF know that I am new to polygyny. I believe wholeheartedly that polygyny is acceptable biblically. My wife had a conversation with our youngest daughter who will be 23yrs old in about a week. Our daughter is in college out of State and wants to come back home and finish up college here. It is because of her living arrangement, (which is a long story) in any case, she wants to come home and move in with her boyfriend that she have been dating for about two years. She has expressed to us that after she graduates from college that they were planning on getting married. Because I am still renewing my mind and uprooting all of the old traditional thinking, how do I deal with this situation. I know my daughter is grown and can make her own decisions. But how do I as a father deal with this.

According to what I read about biblical marriage, when two individuals make a commitment to love each other and live with each other technically they are married. (Am I correct in this?) if so, then should I as a father feel more at ease with this decision that she is making.

The other comment my daughter made to her mom was, that they want to live together to see if they will be able to handle it when they get married.


I must confess that I have not taught my children about biblical marriage and not being concerned about a marriage license. I just learned these things myself.

Can all those in this forum please help me so that I may have clarity in this matter.


Thank you all very much.
 
What the Scroptures says about Your Daughter's situation is pretty straight forward. If Her and this boyfriend have had what We call sex, then They're married. The license is man's crap, that, in My opinion should be avoided.
If She's only had sex with this fellow, the marriage should be OK, but if She had sex with someone before Him, She needs to have a bill of divircement from the first Dude, or now there's adultry, on all Their parts. A man can have as many wives as He can properly care for, but not another man's wife, therefore, the purpose for the bill of divorcement, the first man has to give up his claim to the property. Similar to a Quit Claim deed.

Me,
 
Sir,

I have a 13 year old daughter. After I knew the truth about biblical marriage and adultery, I was concerned for her, especially since she was aware of the turbulent period in our home the past few months (although, through the mercy and grace of God, things are much better now).

God gave me the opportunity to talk to her a bit about polygyny (so she could understand why I am still the father she knew and loved), biblical marriage, and adultery. Honestly, I'm not really good with this talking-with-your-daughter thing. Lots of awkward moments.

But the thing is, I want her to be aware of the sex-is-the-covenant principle in the bible, that marriage as defined in the bible is a very holy covenant to God, that a "married" woman (even when considered single by cultural and government standards) having sex with another man is committing adultery, and that, basically, Jesus allowed only adultery or sexual impropriety on the part of the woman as a ground for divorce.

It is my humble opinion that as parents, it is our obligation to inform and show our kids God's truth. As to how they will react to it, it is already in the hands of God. We can only pray and have faith.

I am just thankful that an opportunity was given to me.
 
Sounds like it's certainly high time to discuss Biblical marriage with your daughter! And yes, your understanding of this sounds correct.

In addition to the other suggestions, rather than lecturing her, why not ask her what SHE believes marriage is? Why she thinks it is different from living together? And most critically, what she believes the difference is between breaking up while living together unmarried, and divorcing when married?

The whole theory of "try before you buy" is to try to avoid divorce - don't marry them if you find it won't work, so you don't end up divorcing them. But you're actually planning to break up if you think it won't work. So to avoid breaking up (labelled "divorce") you plan to break up (just not labelled "divorce"). Huh? How is that any better?

What difference does a piece of paper make to how stressful and heartbreaking a breakup would be? If they end up with children by then (even if they don't intend to they have a habit of turning up...), how would not having a bit of paper make the breakup any easier on them than a divorce would be?

If breaking up while living together but before "marriage" is in every practical sense identical to divorcing, what do they hope to gain by living together but calling themselves "unmarried" until such time as they think it will be a long-term arrangement? Aren't they just fiddling with words and labels?

Get her to see that the semantics are pointless - ideally get her to come to the conclusion herself that state "marriage" is meaningless and makes no change in the reality of a relationship. Plenty of secular people are happy to think that already, she just probably doesn't expect her Christian father to agree. Surprise her! Bring her back to thinking about the practical reality - does she want to live with this man, sleep with him, possibly start a family with him, or not? That's the real question.

Then tell her you don't give two hoots whether she gets a marriage licence or not, she's welcome to move in with him (unless you think he's a right bastard in which case you might say the opposite!) - and you'll be considering it marriage and supporting her to stick it out for the rest of her life. Because that is marriage according to God, doesn't make any difference what she calls it.

The other point to raise is the fact that plenty of men promise to marry a woman, even get "engaged" - and then string her along for years and years without ever actually doing it because there's always a reason not to (weddings are expensive etc). So a woman who expected to end up married after a year or two of living together can find herself a decade later still unsure whether her man is really committed to stick with her for the rest of her life. She's given him everything without him paying for it by giving her security. This can be an underlying stress that then makes a breakup more likely, as given the relationship is more tentative anyway any big fight could tip it over the edge. She needs security and she's got a vagina to buy it with, but shouldn't pay until after receiving the goods. :shock:

Addional point - if your daughter can see that living together is marriage, she may be able to see that her boyfriend should really be asking your permission first, even if just for traditions sake. If he's serious, he can do that. If he doesn't have the guts to do that, he's not serious.
 
Good topic. I have to say I see it differently. I believe the vow is what is important and the breaking of the vow is what is wrong.

Exo 22:16 And if a man lures a virgin who is not promised, and lies with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
Exo 22:17 If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

also read Deu. 22:20's

Sex does go along with that vow of marriage, but it is not inclusive. What about concubines? They are basically female slave with sexual rights and you had even rights to their children and who they could sleep with and marry (sorry, not my teaching). God's answer was to betroth the daughters early in their years to keep them pure. To vow, but not yet live in marriage and the groom's father said when this taking of the wife was to happened! Anything short of this was adultery - the breaking of the vow or going to another.

PS. Guys there is huge symbolism here about us committing adultery to our groom and head - Jesus The Christ
The first commandment - Exo 20:3 You shall have no other gods before Me.
 
I second the need for the young man to approach you for your blessing. As for having them live with you, I could not say. What dynamic would be developed? As the head and priest of your home, how will you handle him being the head and priest of your daughter under the same roof? Does the layout of your estate or home allow for autonomy? Is he becoming your son-in-love or living off your generosity? Were he to move in, he would be putting his hands to work for the provision of himself and your daughter... right?
 
I won't repeat the whole sex-is-the-covenant part here, which I basically agree with, but I want to bring up a view I have held for a few years now that marriage licenses are an unChristian thing to do.

When you take a license to marry, you are creating a contractual obligation between you, your spouse, and the State. The State is the superior party and they determine what constitutes marriage and what constitutes legitimate grounds for a divorce (or if that's even needed). This is not how God has spoken on the matter.

Jesus said to render to Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's. If marriage comes to us from the Garden of Eden, then I must say it is God's and not Caesar's. Thereby, if we render to Caesar (via a State marriage license) that which is God's, then we have violated this command of the Lord. Marriage is not Caesar's. It is God's and He alone can define what it is (or is not) and He alone can define if, when, or under what circumstances it may be dissolved.

I would suggest discussing this idea with your daughter. Then, were it me, I would do all in my power to say don't even try it if she and he are not mutually committed to making it work at all possible costs. To do the "trial marriage" thing is really just to set it up for ultimate failure as soon as they have their first major argument. This commitment at all possible costs is a huge part of why my wife and I are together and stronger than ever after 17 years. Those first three or four were pretty bumpy, but we were committed to making it work and work right. It's not flawless, but it is aging like fine wine now.
 
Southlander, what is your opinion of Birth Certificates, Social Security Numbers, Population Census, Military Draft and the like?
 
Courting4Life said:
Southlander, what is your opinion of Birth Certificates, Social Security Numbers, Population Census, Military Draft and the like?
Click to expand...

I have no real issue with any of those. The birth certificate is prima facie evidence that you are who you say you are unless contradictory evidence can be brought to bear. The SSN is getting used too invasively and often in direct violation of Federal law which limits how it can be used, but I have no issue with it, per se. Population census is a constitutional requirement. I have no problem with it. America was not commanded not to engage in it like ancient Israel was. Military draft -- I am not against it in a time of declared war, but otherwise I think we should keep it voluntary professional which has worked well for us in peace time. Another possibility that would work well is to have all non-consciencious objector men between certain ages be part of a national militia system. Switzerland shows how well that not only works, but reduces crime rather significantly, but I digress. As far as I am concerned, these are all Caesar's to command legitimately.

I am not closed minded on the topic, however.
 
"The birth certificate is prima facie evidence that you are who you say you are unless contradictory evidence can be brought to bear"

Without footprints and the like, it's just another piece of record keeping. Carry a birth certificate for Hanz and a driver's license for Rick displaying your photo, and you're Rick. I don't think that the government needs to have SSN's for anything other than tax purposes. Nor do they need the census and birth certificates for anything but taxes and drafts. As for the marriage license, I think it's just another tax. We can't clearly compare legal vs Biblical marriage, the language and definitions are too far off. As far as I'm concerned, if Caesar wants to tax my first marriage, fine. If Caesar doesn't recognize my additional marriages, fine. As a nation born into debt, as a citizen born willing to pay with my life and a substantial portion of my gross income, a few dollars tax for marriage is fine by me. I don't think it unChristian. Were the government to attempt to take my wife for a % of the year, or a politician to attempt to claim first rights in my marriage bed (or anytime thereafter for that matter), acceptance of that would be unChristian.
 
The census is for apportionment of the representatives in Congress. They use it for other things, too, but only on a voluntary basis. The only compulsory information the census can take is the number, gender, and age of the occupants of a particular location. Those numbers are compared with registered voter rolls. Those numbers not registered to vote are counted as 3/5 of a person each for apportionment purposes. The census data cannot be used for taxation because head taxes are unconstitutional, IIRC.
 
Numbers generated from the census directly corresponded to the number of seats each state is afforded in the House of Representatives, and therefore establishes our representation. Through that representation, the taxes are implemented, modified, or withdrawn, thus the basis of "No taxation without representation".

Speaking of which, do you have any further particulars we may offer opinion on ADHERE? How has the past week played out? Seems to be a lot of this sort of situation (though not exact) occurring. I'm to meet with a friends daughter and boyfriend this Sunday regarding the boyfriends thinking that he should stay home with the kids (8 months old and another a couple months in the oven) while his girlfriend works. Neither of them are presently employed, he claims to not be able to get work due to serving hard time, both are living with her parents, and "grandma" works as a restaurant manager while supporting her disabled husband in his fight against cancer. Thing is, the boyfriend hasn't put in applications and is "content" to give up and be a full time mom. My discussion will revolve largely around his ability to breastfeed without assistance and Proverbs 6:1-19.
 
Self employment is option. Most customers never check your resume. If he lives near a city, I might be able to offer some ideas of a business.
 
Thank you all for your thought provoking responses. It has given me much to pray about. My daughter and her boyfriend wants to move in together in their own apartment. I won't be supporting them financially, he is holding down two jobs, saving money to purchase a home, and he seems to be very responsible. All my wife and I can do now is just pray as we have been, and believe God that they will make a God inspired decision.


Again, thank you all!
 
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