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Meat Scriptural Advice for the wedding night

Mark C

Mark C

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
No, this isn't about sex per se. Nor is about what constitutes "divorce," (as opposed to mere "putting away") nor about what the Almighty State ordains as "marriage licenses."

It is about Authority, and "past sins," and vows.

And, yes, it's been done before. But I see current evidence that some prefer not to "connect the dots," even if we might think, "they should know better by now."

In the thread that prompted this new one, I suggested that men who choose to take a wife, whether it's the first, or the nth, should 'choose wisely.' Surely that's no surprise to any here: Rebecca or Jezebel? Even Bathsheba or Delilah?

But, perhaps because I refused to go beyond what Scripture says, and tell ANY man that he can, or can NOT, take a woman who is "not a virgin," it appeared to me that someone claimed:
your response is that scripture does not give us any guidance on it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, admittedly, it's not like that didn't strike me as flatulent. Can anybody here honestly claim that a couple thousand posts here don't refute that? But that's not why I started a new thread. This isn't about old arguments, it's about:

Advice for the wedding night (whenever you think that is, rightly or wrongly.)

And I have emphasized the VITAL importance of Numbers chapter 30 here, and anywhere else I teach, more times than I can count. But the recent context was for potential wives with "burdens," baggage, even scars. Non-virgins included, perhaps even especially.

I emphasize, again and AGAIN, that the husband is, and MUST be, the authority in the house. And that starts before..."consummation."

Read that chapter and understand it.

Did she make "vows" (or just, well, maybe 'you know...') with other men? One, ten, hundreds? Are any "still in effect?"

Yes, people lie, People can forge 'paperwork.' But Scripture talks about "two or more witnesses." She must be one of them. Is there a Second Witness? What form does that take?

Scripture gives us PLENTY of guidance, but guess who must decide? And who is ultimately responsible for that choice?

So here goes:

BEFORE the 'marriage' - pray together about it. Make sure she knows what happens AFTER any consummation, and concedes that authority. Otherwise, keep your pants on.

AFTER the consummation: (And, yes, I'd suggest right there in the afterglow, while you rest in each others' arms)

The Now-Husband takes the Authority, right from Scripture, just conferred to him by that covenant, and before YHVH, to exercise exactly what Numbers 30:12-13 says he may do:
make any and every PREVIOUS 'vows' or 'oaths' or burdens, or promises - whether she remembers them or not! - 'void'. "And YHVH will release her."

Don't wait, don't take even that chance you might forget, and let them stand.

And don't forget: "He shall bear her guilt." Wow. How's THAT for responsibility, guys? Thankfully, we too, have promises from the exact same word that He can and will bear ours. IF we 'know Him,' and hopefully He knows us.

Finally, keep doing it. Numbers 30 says that he can cast down any such vow "on the DAY that he hears it." For those of you who did NOT do such before, now is that time.



PS> And, yes, this opens an whole 'nuther can 'o worms: That includes 'demonic influences,' too.

Whether you believe in them or not, I can personally testify that they are real, and evil, and 'come but to steal, kill, and destroy.' And husbands have authority over them, can and should, with understanding, cast them out, and 'clean the house' so they don't return.
 
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The thing about renouncing every previous vow is so huge, I am ashamed to say that I was today years old before I saw that.
It clearly says that on the day that you hear of it, which surely includes before you even hear of it. If it exists, you don’t need her to even remember it.
 
Hi @Mark C and forgive me. I have been struggling reading this today and I am unable to grasp what you're getting at here. This is probably more of a me thing than a you thing so if I can ask for a summary then I can go back and read this again.

Thank you!
 
YVW, Megan.

A husband can - on the DAY that he hears it - cast down a wife's vow, and she will be released from it by Yah.

I contend that means any vow, that he understands she should not have made.

The implications are vast, and important. But they are not something most are taught to even consider, much less think about and apply.

This topic, IMHO, is so important that I emphasize it every year during the teaching that includes Numbers chapter 30, "Matot": (They can all be found via a search for "Numbers 30".)

 
steve said:
It clearly says that on the day that you hear of it, which surely includes before you even hear of it. If it exists, you don’t need her to even remember it.
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I am not quite as sure that it does.

I have no problem praying about that (and have.) But I have also prayed with my wives about vows, or oaths, or burdens that they may have, and not even be aware of, or have forgotten.* (Separate story: There are MANY things that a woman may have said, carelessly, in her youth, etc, that seemed 'trivial' and have been overlooked, but can bear wicked fruit YEARS down the line. Above teachings I am sure outline some. When they show up, THEN cast 'em down.)

If anything, I think the implication that the day we hear about them is the day we LEARN about them, or have them revealed to us. Then, cast 'em down, with authority, and knowledge.



-------------------------
* I have found that this is particularly true when it comes to issues that give a demonic attack an "entry point."
 
I am in agreement with you.
My focus was on the point that the husband has to negate the vows promptly, the day that he hears of it, and making a blanket disavowing of all previous vows when she has fully come under his authority would be the safest and cleanest way to accomplish this.

If I could paraphrase the principle;
Don’t let the sun go down on a mistaken vow that she has made.
 
Mark C said:
No, this isn't about sex per se. Nor is about what constitutes "divorce," (as opposed to mere "putting away") nor about what the Almighty State ordains as "marriage licenses."

It is about Authority, and "past sins," and vows.

And, yes, it's been done before. But I see current evidence that some prefer not to "connect the dots," even if we might think, "they should know better by now."

In the thread that prompted this new one, I suggested that men who choose to take a wife, whether it's the first, or the nth, should 'choose wisely.' Surely that's no surprise to any here: Rebecca or Jezebel? Even Bathsheba or Delilah?

But, perhaps because I refused to go beyond what Scripture says, and tell ANY man that he can, or can NOT, take a woman who is "not a virgin," it appeared to me that someone claimed:


Yeah, admittedly, it's not like that didn't strike me as flatulent. Can anybody here honestly claim that a couple thousand posts here don't refute that? But that's not why I started a new thread. This isn't about old arguments, it's about:

Advice for the wedding night (whenever you think that is, rightly or wrongly.)

And I have emphasized the VITAL importance of Numbers chapter 30 here, and anywhere else I teach, more times than I can count. But the recent context was for potential wives with "burdens," baggage, even scars. Non-virgins included, perhaps even especially.

I emphasize, again and AGAIN, that the husband is, and MUST be, the authority in the house. And that starts before..."consummation."

Read that chapter and understand it.

Did she make "vows" (or just, well, maybe 'you know...') with other men? One, ten, hundreds? Are any "still in effect?"

Yes, people lie, People can forge 'paperwork.' But Scripture talks about "two or more witnesses." She must be one of them. Is there a Second Witness? What form does that take?

Scripture gives us PLENTY of guidance, but guess who must decide? And who is ultimately responsible for that choice?

So here goes:

BEFORE the 'marriage' - pray together about it. Make sure she knows what happens AFTER any consummation, and concedes that authority.
Click to expand...
Yep

Mark C said:
Otherwise, keep your pants on.
Click to expand...
100%


Mark C said:
AFTER the consummation: (And, yes, I'd suggest right there in the afterglow, while you rest in each others' arms)

The Now-Husband takes the Authority, right from Scripture, just conferred to him by that covenant, and before YHVH, to exercise exactly what Numbers 30:12-13 says he may do:
make any and every PREVIOUS 'vows' or 'oaths' or burdens, or promises - whether she remembers them or not! - 'void'. "And YHVH will release her."

Don't wait, don't take even that chance you might forget, and let them stand.

And don't forget: "He shall bear her guilt." Wow. How's THAT for responsibility, guys? Thankfully, we too, have promises from the exact same word that He can and will bear ours. IF we 'know Him,' and hopefully He knows us.

Finally, keep doing it. Numbers 30 says that he can cast down any such vow "on the DAY that he hears it." For those of you who did NOT do such before, now is that time.



PS> And, yes, this opens an whole 'nuther can 'o worms: That includes 'demonic influences,' too.

Whether you believe in them or not, I can personally testify that they are real, and evil, and 'come but to steal, kill, and destroy.' And husbands have authority over them, can and should, with understanding, cast them out, and 'clean the house' so they don't return.
Click to expand...
Very real...

Spot on Good counsel...
 
MeganC said:
Hi @Mark C and forgive me. I have been struggling reading this today and I am unable to grasp what you're getting at here. This is probably more of a me thing than a you thing so if I can ask for a summary then I can go back and read this again.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I am not sure either but gotta say I am disappointed to see no reference to champagne, trapeze, breakaway yoga pants or a Benny Hill inspired chase scene complete with a theme song.
I mean...there was reference to consummation afterall
 
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How does a husband declare previous promises and contracts null and void? Is that verbally out loud and loud enough for wifey in my arms can hear it? In other words, what are the mechanics of doing such a thing? Is that MY authority as a husband as I have heard her confession of past activity? Could that be a part of the elusive "covenant" that TRM has tried to define? (mind blown in new paradigm shift)
 
Maddog said:
How does a husband declare previous promises and contracts null and void? Is that verbally out loud and loud enough for wifey in my arms can hear it? In other words, what are the mechanics of doing such a thing? Is that MY authority as a husband as I have heard her confession of past activity? Could that be a part of the elusive "covenant" that TRM has tried to define? (mind blown in new paradigm shift)
Click to expand...
It is authority granted you by His Word, so I see it as a simple matter of asserting it to your woman. She is a human being with some significant degree of YHWH-endowed free agency, however, so she has the power to rebel against you or YHWH's Will, but, unless she exits TTWCM with your blessing, any rebellion on her part amounts to wishful thinking on her part. Your declaration of the cessation of her previous vows qualifies as such a situation, which means that she would shift from informally acting out of delusion to formally acting out of delusion should she continue to assert that she is bound by those now-revoked vows.

The only way to negate this would have been to fail to submit to your headship.
 
Maddog said:
How does a husband declare previous promises and contracts null and void? Is that verbally out loud and loud enough for wifey in my arms can hear it? In other words, what are the mechanics of doing such a thing?
Click to expand...
I agree with Keith, in that it is a verbal declaration that the husband makes over his wife's vows, to specifically and explicitly cast them down.

I like to do it immediately, for the reason I explained initially (among others) and to make sure she hears it and knows it. *

And because there are OTHER important promises in Scripture, I ask for not only her consent, but agreement as well. ("When two or more agree..." or "are gathered together," and etc.)

-----------------------------------------

* There came a time where the pattern was set, and I'd expect to hear, "OK, I shouldn't have said that, you can cast it down..." It also has to do with "pattern recognition," and learning to recognize potential problems. For example, if a sentence begins, "I will NEVER..." - pay close attention.

And, PS - this week's torah parsha contains the story of a vow that Yakov made, that evidently cost his beloved Rachel her life.
 
There are two parties to every vow, the one that makes it and the recipient of it. Or recipients.
When we declare a vow to be null and void, we are cutting off whatever another party would use that vow for. We actually speak forth into the spirit world. We are taking back whatever advantage the vow may have given our adversary.
 
Mark C said:
It also has to do with "pattern recognition," and learning to recognize potential problems. For example, if a sentence begins, "I will NEVER..." - pay close attention.
Click to expand...
Oh, my brother, you have hit the NAIL on the head with that one. For me, that started being a no-exception show-stopper as of a couple years ago. Time stands still for our relationship as far as I'm concerned until such a statement is acknowledged, apologized for and renounced.
 
This week's regular Torah parsha reading introduces Yakov/Jacob's four wives, and what will ultimately be twelve sons. But it also contains a reference to what I contend is a VERY tragic vow that he makes concerning Raquel/Rachel that costs him dearly.

I'll link it here, from the thread that contains the audio files:

Meat - Yakov's Four Wives are only PART of the bigger story

The regular Scripture reading for this week includes what I call the "Beginning of Yakov's [Jacob's] journey," where he ultimately acquires his four wives, and then twelve sons who beget the twelve tribes of Israel. Most here will be familiar with the basics. But there is far more to the story...
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