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Seeking and reasoning with my bride.

captainjonathan

captainjonathan

Member
Real Person
Had a wonderful discussion with my lovely bride last night. We have talked off and on throughout our marriage about a PM life. She used to think her husband was just a hornball (her words) Then she realized that is not the case. We got down to some of the nitty grittys last night. My bride is unable to have children. I dont think I would want to force (medically) the issue for her, as it is not her skill set. Laura is a wonderful teammate. She succeeds at everything she tries, sometimes to my embarrassment as I dont always succeed. She loves working. She has never wanted to be a stay at home mom or taken joy in projects at home. I get immense amounts of joy from building the castle and estate if you will.

Now to the point. I was reading some of Froggie's story (all of it actually) and then another post this morning about not looking for housekeeper and all. I chuckled because to some extent that is who we want. Not a slave or maid, but someone who loves being a domestic engineer. I married a woman who doesn't enjoy these things, some of them I enjoy. We divide chores on this basis as it makes no sense to torture ourselves when we can just do the chores we find rewarding and called to do. With that in mind, Laura and I want a woman who is a Christian first, and whose strengths are made perfect in our weakness. Is there anything wrong/ ungodly about that?
 
Hello CaptainJonathan,

I am not the best person to comment on what is or isn't considered 'Godly' by Christian standards but as to whether it is wrong all I can think (IMHO) is, possibly. On one hand there are quite a few single mothers who may prefer to be a STHM given the opportunity, but as with anything in life, people change, their focus changes and it is unloving to force someone to stay at home when they no longer feel happy and fulfilled doing so. Besides which, she may decide if she doesn't have equality with your wife who does have the right to work, than she isn't a 'proper' wife after all?

Think about what you are offering in general real terms, we call it polygamy but there is not legal polygamy so in effect, in the eyes of the law she is a single woman cohabiting with her married lover and his wife. She will have no legal rights and not even any money of her own. Your legal wife has her own money, the status of wife also and she will not have any children to support if it all goes belly-up. For young women with children, even the desire to stay at home will not erase the huge risk she may be taking with not only her life but the lives of her children if it does not work out.

Far too often people consider the benefit a wife will bring to them rather than what they have to offer a wife and indeed, whether that offer is worth it compared to conventional monogamy.

Bels
 
I agree that forcing anybody to do anything is not good. What we are looking for is someone who WANTS to be at home. Who gets great joy from building the home. If in the future Laura wants to stay at home, I believe providing for the family is my responsibility (the buck stops with me) There are ways to establish living trusts to take care of those who would be left behind by my death. Also by the same reasoning that Laura could stay home if she wants so a bride in the future could go to work if that is truly where her heart is at though we as a family need to keep our responsibilities to children and home by rearranging household jobs to keep them up.
 
I wasn't really talking about your death as I am assuming that all Poly families arrange protection in the case of death or some other crisis through legal means, but I am referring to separation, sometimes Poly families do not work.

B
 
Laura and I have an agreement. We took vows that said till death do we part. We said that to each other while inviting God to be the biggest part of the triple braided rope of marriage. We have jokes about who is gonna kill who and which one will spend life in jail. :D That being said, I did not prepare a prenup with my bride and I do not plan for what I believe to be an impossibility. On several fronts divorce is sin/ result of sin, and so is breaking my vow with God, so I should not. I think the better idea is how to prepare to stay with each other through thick and thin, leaning on God for the strength we need when our sinful nature falls short. To me preparing for the possibility of divorce is akin to carrying a pornographic magazine in case I want to em.. It is sin.
 
Good Luck.
 
Interesting exchange. :)

Seems like you have it pretty well thought out. And it sounds reasonable. May I make a suggestion?

One question would be how to improve the "her own money" situation for the Stay-at-home-mom wife, a way to give her money that she felt WAS her own?

I assume that you and your existing wife could figure out a way to "share the wealth" in a loving and equitable fashion so that she could feel as though the chores she did were in fact her job, for which she was equitably paid, and would not resent it.
 
I don't see anything wrong with this. My husband always wanted a woman who would be a stay at home wife and mother and that's what God gave him. I love being a stay at home mum. It's what I always wanted to be. I don't earn money as such but I work rather hard :D . My husband earns the money and it's ours. We share and use it together. I don't feel the need to have my 'own' money. I'm sure there are other women out there like me :lol: .

Pray that IF God chooses to give you another wife that she will fulfill the needs in your household and fit in perfectly.
 
Isabella said:
On one hand there are quite a few single mothers who may prefer to be a STHM given the opportunity, but as with anything in life, people change, their focus changes and it is unloving to force someone to stay at home when they no longer feel happy and fulfilled doing so. Besides which, she may decide if she doesn't have equality with your wife who does have the right to work, than she isn't a 'proper' wife after all?
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I don't think this is about having the "right" to work or not. A wife has the "right" (if we are to use that term) to do whatever her husband allows her to do - and a loving husband will allow her to do whatever is the right thing for her to do, be that staying at home or working or whatever.

Most women in my experience (at least those of childbearing age) actually want to be able to stay at home, but find themselves forced to work for financial reasons. But they are taught right through school that they are supposed to want to work outside the home, that's just our modern feminist philosophy.
Think about what you are offering in general real terms, we call it polygamy but there is not legal polygamy so in effect, in the eyes of the law she is a single woman cohabiting with her married lover and his wife. She will have no legal rights and not even any money of her own. Your legal wife has her own money, the status of wife also and she will not have any children to support if it all goes belly-up. For young women with children, even the desire to stay at home will not erase the huge risk she may be taking with not only her life but the lives of her children if it does not work out.
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That on the other hand is a very important point to bear in mind. She does have no legal protection. We must therefore ensure that our vows are robust, that both husband and wife are in complete agreement about the finality of them, and the obligations that they place on each other.

We also need Christian churches who will accept polygyny, and hold husbands and wives to account. Everyone needs a boot up the backside occasionally, and if we are no longer accountable to the state (as monogamous marriages are) we need to get our act together and make sure we're accountable to each other.
 
FollowingHim said:
I don't think this is about having the "right" to work or not. A wife has the "right" (if we are to use that term) to do whatever her husband allows her to do - and a loving husband will allow her to do whatever is the right thing for her to do, be that staying at home or working or whatever.
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I think that is just pointless semantics which does not really have anything to do with the point I was making. Which is, if a second wife sees the fact that the first wife has a 'choice' that is not treating each wife equally and this may cause tension.

Most women in my experience (at least those of childbearing age) actually want to be able to stay at home
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Childbearing age and being mothers is not the same thing, I do not know any childless woman who wants to stay at home and plenty of mothers who want to, I even know a mothers who can but don't. I don't think it makes sense to generalise.

that's just our modern feminist philosophy.
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I think you will find it is the modern economic reality actually.

Most families cannot survive now with just one salary.

B
 
I do love the talk. Here is the rub. Does anyone question whether it is fair for the guy to stay at home? No we are called (to some extent by God I believe) to go earn, defend and to PROVIDE. This is one of the areas where God to us is like Man to wife. At the risk of offending and provoking anger....
In modern society women have a choice to marry or not, to have children or not, to work in the home or not. While I do not believe this is contrary to God's law, it is not the Biblical example we have. I find it ironic that even within the church people are seeking to have "worldly" freedom. The history of the "Jezebel" spirit in men and women of the church never ceases to amaze me. We have sold ourselves to God and we got the better deal.

Okay that said.

Men and women are both God's children. This establishes some equality. However God calls women the weaker gender (I debate Him on this sometimes as my mother is the strongest person I know) He says that men are the head of the house as He is the head of the church. That is a tough one. It means my head is on the chopping block. The old testament examples of women not even being able to be held to their word unless approved by the male head of household is pretty clear. I understand that not all women want to stay home. That is the type of person I am looking for. I would never want to force a person to do something that they hated.
 
Actually... Stay at Home Dads are becoming more common these days, especially with 1) career mothers who actually earn more than the husband, and 2) men with physical illnesses/disabilities that require the wife to go into the workforce, leaving Dad at home to tend to the little ones. This actually happened to me and Mr. Froggie for a time, when he was suffering horribly from fibromyalgia, and our sons were just four and six years old.

Then there are the "older" dads who are actually able to retire and take care of the "late in life" baby while mom works...

To be honest, as long as someone is able to be home much of the time and tend to the children, without putting them into daycare full time, it doesn't really matter which parent takes on the bulk of the homemaking. That may not be the way God originally intended it in the Bible, but I think God also has an open mind when it comes to our human circumstances. 8-)
 
Intriguing discussion, thought I would throw in a few Biblical instances of women working, providing for their family and others.
Proverbs 31 : This woman was something else. Buying land, running a business.
Judges 4 : Deborah, a judge in Israel... Supreme Court? :)
Acts 16 : Lydia in the NT, granted not raised in the Jewish faith but a convert to Christianity

Generic thoughts, don't have the references handy:
Women worked in the fields
Women worked to support Jesus and the disciples

We are blessed in that my wife was able to decide whether or not to stay home with the birth of our first child (and successive children). I recognize that not every family is in such a position. We have had to manage the budget closely at times but doing so has caused me to work harder which has helped advance my career... We have looked at home based part time opportunities such as an Amazon / Ebay store and will be doing more research on that in the future.
 
Also even if the DH can take care of all the expenses of the household it is nice to have money of your own and some extra floating around for other things you might wish to purchase or to contribute to a larger purchase you need to save up for. Both Beth and I work although I work only 3 nights a week but I do almost all the household chores and look after the children during the day, and Beth works part time 5 days a week so she is home by the time the children are home. That way we each can and do contribute to the household and feel like we are useful while having a little money to do with what we want without having to ask for it.
 
For a time, while I was homeshcooling my young boys, I "picked" my husband's pockets, and saved the change in a jar especially for purchasing educational supplies.

Yes indeed, Lydia was a "seller of purple." She used her trade to not only support herself, but to further the mission efforts of the church after she accepted Christ.
 
captainjonathan said:
I understand that not all women want to stay home. That is the type of person I am looking for. I would never want to force a person to do something that they hated.
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That's exactly how I see it too. There are millions of women in the world. Some are hard-line feminist career women who hate the idea of being "caged up" in a home, or obeying a husband. Some are natural-born mothers and homemakers who are not interested in working outside the home but only in serving their husband and raising children. And there are many women in between. I'm not interested in the feminists, I am interested in the homemakers. What's wrong with that?

I spent many years at university but didn't find a wife there, as university women are career focussed, and I was not interested in a career woman. Instead God gave me a wonderful wife who I met through a church youth group, and whose sole ambition in life is to be a mother and housewife.

God knew she was best for me, and I was best for her, so he put us together.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being interested in some women and not others. I'm interested in Christian women, but not atheists. I'm interested in submissive women, not rebellious ones. There are other men who are attracted to rebellious atheists, so I don't need to be! :D

Bels, although it may be more difficult these days to maintain a sole-income household, it is by no means impossible (although everyone's situation is obviously different). Often once you add the cost of childcare, transport, work clothing etc you find there is less net gain from the second income than you thought, and you can get as much or more benefit from having the wife doing home cooking, gardening etc and saving money for the household than you would get from her earning money. It all depends what you want to do, and how creative you are willing to get to achieve it.
 
FollowingHim said:
Bels, although it may be more difficult these days to maintain a sole-income household, it is by no means impossible (although everyone's situation is obviously different). Often once you add the cost of childcare, transport, work clothing etc you find there is less net gain from the second income than you thought, and you can get as much or more benefit from having the wife doing home cooking, gardening etc and saving money for the household than you would get from her earning money. It all depends what you want to do, and how creative you are willing to get to achieve it.
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I will accept that is the fact for many families who are hopeless consumers, it is true that a lot of what is considered a life essential is actually....not. However, whether a second (or 3rd etc) is needed depends entirely on your family, if you have three young children you will need less income coming in than if you have five teenagers. It depends entirely on your circumstances.

B
 
I was once told a parable:

Two buck privates are ordered by a 5 star general to go and build a bridge. As they salute and turn, the General looks at Private Alpha and says, "when you are done, you report back to me." Well they get to the ravine and start building. At one point Private Alpha tells Private Bravo how and what he should do. You can imagine the fight. Private Alpha, said hey man it is my head on the block, I have to report back to the General about our progress.

This was taught as an earthly representation of how we are viewed in God's eyes. Not that we are less or more, just as God is an orderly God, He set rules here on earth. In addition, the Bible states clearly that the comparison is Christ to Church as Man to wife.

At the risk again of ruffling feathers. When my wife signs on the line, it is my job to pay the debt, I dont care if that is financial or if she got mouthy with the biggest guy at a biker bar. That is what Christ did for us. I am called to lay down my life for her. (I hear cheers from the womens section???) :D This is a tough act for a man to follow. I dont like laying down my life. Who questions if there is a rapist in the street, oh no wife you can go kick his butt, i am gonna go hide and retreat with the kids. It is amazing once push comes to shove how easily roles become like nature. It may not happen all the time, but it does happen and it is what man is called to be.

Now we get to the other side of the coin. See the issue here is not what a wife can do. It is the fact that a Jezebel type spirit (big bonfire of it or little flicker in the corner) HATES to submit to someone else being in charge. My wife is the most capable person I know. There are some things she is better at than others. However, if we had a child, I would ask her to stay home. If she didnt want to, I would ask her to pray for God to change her heart and to make her content in her JOB at home. Now she can refuse, it is her choice. At that point though does she lose protection? Look at the analogy folks. OVER and OVER in the Bible the Jews would break the covenant by breaking God's requests. What happened? And now we are Christ's bride, the word He used is segu'lah or my most treasured possession. The word for wife? segu'lah. Any questions?

If I truly want to be happy I let my Lord have His most treasured possession and I dont fight it. The earthly example(, more understandable today perhaps?) Is a classic car. Christ bought me from the junk yard as a running heap. I need work. First I get disassemble, freaking a that hurts, I was running, I dont wanna get dissassembled. Then I get sand blasted, rust cut off, my very heart (engine) ripped out to have it rebuilt. As He starts to put me back together, Darn I look good. Now I am running, need new tires, but He takes me out and shows me off. Now I have tires, now I get little extras now and then. He takes me everywhere! He is PROUD OF ME! But it required complete submission and acceptance that I was bought with a price.

This is part that stinks about marriage today. Maybe if we still had to "pay" for our wives, we would treat them better. It seems that we have more love for our purchased treasured possessions than for our segu'lah.

And maybe if our wives were treated like our favorite possession they would have lass of a problem with firing up when we put our keys in the ignition and step on the gas, because they would be in mint condition. They would get the best of everything we can give them, we would show them off on cruise nights and let everyone know what we have in the garage.

Just some thoughts.
 
captainjonathan said:
When my wife signs on the line, it is my job to pay the debt
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Brother,

Welcome to the family.

Please allow me to respectfully remind you of the Numbers 30 passages regarding the husbands role in validating or annulling a wife's commitments. Peace be to you, especially if you live in Nevada in the summer. ;)

Num 30:12 But if her husband hath utterly made them void on the day he heard them; then whatsoever proceeded out of her lips concerning her vows, or concerning the bond of her soul, shall not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the LORD shall forgive her.
Num 30:13 Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void.
 
Paul,

I referenced the verses from Numbers earlier. I find those amazing. I have studied that a bit. Christ's example was to stand in for our debt unto death. I have yet to hear Christ say it was okay for us to have choice against His. He pays for it, but does not condone it.

Thanks, I appreciated your reference.

Jonathan
 
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