Should we desire cities?

[BiblicalLiteralist]

Referencing the parables of the Talents (Matthew 25:14–30) and Minas (Luke 19-11:27). What is the correlation of authority over cities as a reward for doing much with little. Specifically the parable of the Minas, what was desireable about authority over cities?

 

[MeganC]

Just my two cents here is when you're rural you have a lot more freedom but also a lot less convenience.

I've also noticed that city dwellers have fewer effective rights than do rural folks. Like even if it's legal for you to do something in a city you shouldn't be surprised when someone official gives you crap for it or even arrests you for it.

And that goes double for apartment dwellers.

Cops who would NEVER just kick in the door of a house for whatever reason seemingly have no problem at all kicking in an apartment door when it suits them.

In short, people who live in cities trade freedom for convenience.

 

[paterfamilias]

I will take rural given my druthers

 

[MemeFan]

Referencing the parables of the Talents (Matthew 25:14–30) and Minas (Luke 19-11:27). What is the correlation of authority over cities as a reward for doing much with little. Specifically the parable of the Minas, what was desireable about authority over cities?

Well, where do you want to start?

1. Better defense, starting with walls. Can get elaborate. Multiple layers of fortresses guarding paths.




2. Cultural center. All arts presents.

3. More wives: Village chieftain can choose only 2/3 girls from maybe 10. With big enough metropolis you would need serapate building just for your ladies.

4. Finance. As center of trade there will be many economic activites present. So mucho different jobs, investment opportunities. Riches, riches.

5. Location, location, location. Cities usually live on trade route on defensive position. Which enable projection of military and economic might all around.

Worse case is control over only direct coutryside. Best case is Constantinopole in Byzantine Empire. Even if Empire is dying, retreat behing unbreakable walls to recover and start counter offensive.

Don't disregard this. Economic influence of New York is felt over thousand kilometers. Even in ancient time, Rome, Athens, Alexandria were extremely influencial cities shaping economies over thousand kilometers.

6. Trade routes. Usual location is on some river which lovers transportation costs providing communications all over world.

Have fun in your mountain village where going to next village is just over mountain and it takes one day.

7. Organisation center. All key figures with political influence will find themselves in city. So any form of widespread colllaboration will originate in city just because need to be together to organizirate themselves.

Covers anything from military campaign organisation to cathedral building.

No joke, pay cathedral and for next centuries people can visit what wonderful building did you build for Lord.

8. Lawmaking. Since politicians are in city, new laws will come from there. It sucks if you are in village 10km away, while your political enemy lives next door from key lawmaker.

9. Fun activites. From cinemas, theather, there will be many things to do to have fun.

10. More people. Opportunities to meet more interesting people and more different people.

11. Economic development. Presence of people with many different skills enable creation of new industries. In village if tractors suck you can't never start new tractor factory because there aren't enough right skilled people.

12. Division of labor. You can choose to specialize in many different skill and be city famous as best of any human activity. In village you get best know as best grower of ... choose plant humans use for food.

13. Advice. Many people do have more varied experiences. With effort possible to find people who already similar problem.

14. Adventure. Become best city for exploring polar regions, space, deep oceans etc... Or find adventurous people and go for adventure.

I can't anymore. Brain is fried.

 

[FollowingHim]

Civilisation always revolves around cities. And the ruler of a city is also the ruler of the countryside around it. Being the ruler of a city means being the ruler of a region.

@MeganC and @paterfamilias, your comments are irrelevant, it's not talking about being forced to live in a city. And @MemeFan, it's not about why cities are good either.

It's about being made a king.

 

[MemeFan]

Civilisation always revolves around cities. And the ruler of a city is also the ruler of the countryside around it. Being the ruler of a city means being the ruler of a region.

@MeganC and @paterfamilias, your comments are irrelevant, it's not talking about being forced to live in a city. And @MemeFan, it's not about why cities are good either.

It's about being made a king.

Answer is correct.

Do you want to be king of garbage keepers in garbage dump?

Start with every advantage city provides and as king you can enjoy them most.

 

[steve]

I will carry out whatever assignment that I am given.
Being given a rulership is not necessarily considered a gift, I think that David might have an informed opinion on the subject.

 

[FollowingHim]

Yes, it's not so much that the person is being rewarded with a city, but rather that they are being entrusted with a city as they have proven their managerial ability.

 

[steve]

Yes, it's not so much that the person is being rewarded with a city, but rather that they are being entrusted with a city as they have proven their managerial ability.

A guy that used to be on this site once told me that he felt that he qualified to head a small country.
My thought was that his opinion was probably proof that he wasn’t.

 

[FollowingHim]

“Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'

'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'

'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.”
― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian

 

[steve]

“Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'

'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'

'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.”
― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian

*Gulp*

 

[paterfamilias]

Civilisation always revolves around cities. And the ruler of a city is also the ruler of the countryside around it. Being the ruler of a city means being the ruler of a region.

@MeganC and @paterfamilias, your comments are irrelevant, it's not talking about being forced to live in a city. And @MemeFan, it's not about why cities are good either.

It's about being made a king.

Seems pretty relevant to me. And my reading comprehension is just grand but thanks for the concern.
Inherent in my preference for rural is the lack of grandiose narcissism which is needed for the desire for power over strangers.

 

[MemeFan]

“Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'

'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'

'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.”
― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian

This is not correct.

It's just usually true. Problem is person looking for this role as dictators who think their infinitve wisdom is enough to fix all problem.

And even if they aren't looking, they still believe in their heart in wisdom of such dictatorship.

Only ones capable of fixing societal issues are ones able to convince all sides to ccoperate as method to fulfill their interests.

Btw, just one slave rebellion in history was succesfull. Lead by man able to create cooperation of people, by people.

 

[FollowingHim]

@BiblicalLiteralist, this discussion has gone down a track that I suspect is largely not answering your question. Please confirm whether this has been helpful and give us a followup query if you're still wondering about something.

 

[MeganC]

@MeganC and @paterfamilias, your comments are irrelevant,

The title of the topic is

Should we desire cities?​

Our comments are then absolutely relevant to the discussion.

I do not desire a city nor do I desire a king to rule over me. Unlike most sheep people I am content to make my own decisions and I am also content to accept the consequences of those decisions. To wit, I am someone who has made decisions whose ramifications I have had to accept.

Other people are afraid of accepting responsibility for their decisions and they prefer to be ruled over in order to avoid such worrisome things such as liberty.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

― Samuel Adams

 

[MeganC]

@BiblicalLiteralist, this discussion has gone down a track that I suspect is largely not answering your question. Please confirm whether this has been helpful and give us a followup query if you're still wondering about something.

In general isn't it bad form to ask someone if they want moderation instead of waiting for them to request it?

In law enforcement this would be called soliciting a complaint and it would be grounds for dismissing the complaint as unlawful.

 

[BiblicalLiteralist]

@BiblicalLiteralist, this discussion has gone down a track that I suspect is largely not answering your question. Please confirm whether this has been helpful and give us a followup query if you're still wondering about something.

So far I think your response was the only one within the given context, but I don't think any moderation is necessary. The question still stands, to go a little deeper though. When I think of the parable, it makes me think of gideon and his 77 sons. In biblical times I wonder what the minimum population was needed to differentiate between a town and a city.

 

[FollowingHim]

@MeganC, I never asked if he wanted moderation, never even thought it, that's your own imagination. I'm not going to debate that further either, it too would be yet another distraction from his question. Let's just have the conversation @BiblicalLiteralist is trying to have.

 

[FollowingHim]

In biblical times I wonder what the minimum population was needed to differentiate between a town and a city.

Good question. Checking a lexicon, I think the answer is that there is no difference. It's all the same word in Hebrew (ʿîr, H5892)- it's almost always translated "city", and sometimes translated "town".

H5892 - ʿîr - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H5892 - עִיר ʻîyr, eer; or (in the plural) עָר ʻâr; or עָיַר ʻâyar; (Judges 10:4), from a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch) in the widest sense (even of a mere encampment or post):—Ai (from margin), city, court (from margin), town.

www.blueletterbible.org

Strong's definition is "a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch) in the widest sense (even of a mere encampment or post):". And the word is derived from H5782, which means basically "to be awake". So fundamentally it just means any sort of guarded settlement.

So there is no minimum population.

This has really interesting implications for many verses. For instance, when we are told that Cain "built a city", people often assume that means there were lots of people to fill it, and use that as a reason to think that there may have been people in the world other than Adam and Eve's descendants. But all it really means is that he started a settlement, and even when it was only himself, his wife and a couple of kids, that's enough for it to be a "city".

 

[FollowingHim]

Now this is interesting, think of how that word is pronounced. It immediately reminded me of Ur, the city Abraham came from. Turns out it's almost the same word.

City (H5892) is עִיר, pronounced "eer"
Awake (H5782) is עוּר, pronounced "oor"
Ur (H218) is אוּר, also pronounced "oor", and said to mean "flame".

The only difference between "Awake" and "Ur" is that the ע becomes א - and both of those are silent characters that are not pronounced. So technically it is a different word to city, but it's so close it's almost like Abraham came from a city called "City".

Which means the name of Ur might have been a pun all along, and the founder of the city may have thought it quite hilarious. Might even be the earliest recorded joke. A bad dad joke by the founding dad when he first named his family's campsite.