Some messianic prophecies.

[David777]

In the Tanakh, GOD promised King David that the Son of David would reign FOREVER:

"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be His Father, and He shall be My Son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established FOR EVER before thee: thy throne shall be established FOR EVER" (2 Samuel 12:16)

So David's throne was going to be established FOREVER over God's chosen people. But we know that after Jesus came, in 70 A.D. The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and we know that for 2000 years (Since Jesus), there has been no king in the political territory of Israel.

So, was the promise false?

If JESUS is The Son of God ("I will be His Father, and He shall be My Son"), and he resurrected, and is the King of Israel, then God's promise was true. Jesus was descendant of David, and He reigns from Heaven over his chosen people. If Jesus is the King of Kings, then God's promise to David is true, because there has been a KING over the throne of David all these 2000 years. But if Jesus is a fake, then God's promise was not true, because we know that for 2000 years the throne of David has been empty.

In Genesis 49:10, (Torah) ISRAEL made a promise to JUDAH:"The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from his descendants, until SHILOH comes, the one whom all nations will honor."

So we know that Judah's descendants had the power over Israel. The kingdom belonged to Judah's descendats. (David and Solomon were from Judah, and JESUS was from Judah). When JESUS came, the SCEPTER DEPARTED from Judah, because JESUS IS SHILOH. So when the Judah rulers wanted to kill Jesus, they COULDN'T, because THE SCEPTER HAD DEPARTED. So they had to use the ROMANS (Pontius Pilate) to kill Jesus. If the scepter had not departed, the Jews could have just killed Jesus without having to ask permission from the Romans. But BECAUSE the scepter was departed, (For the King had come), they didn't have the authority. Now, we know that since Jesus, Judah has been for 2000 years WITHOUT the sceptre, because JESUS HAS THE SCEPTRE. (Of course, this also agrees with 2 Samuel 12:16). Now, Shiloh, according to Genesis 49:10 will be honored by the nations. JESUS is the one whom the nations honor, evidently. We are in the year 2011 Anno Domini. (Year of The Lord 2011).

In Deuteronomy 28 (TORAH), God promises blessings and curses to his Chosen People. Blessings "IF you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands..."(Deuteronomy 28:1), but CURSES, "IF you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees..."(Deuteronomy 28:15)

One of the curses, IF ISRAEL DIDN'T OBEY THE LORD your God was: "Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. " (Deuteronomy 28:64). As you know, when Jesus came (The Lord, God of Israel), the Israelites did not obey him (They didn't obey The Lord their God), and as you know, After Jesus, Israel was scattered "among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other".

For 2000 years (Since Jesus), Israel has been scattered from the Land that God gave them, because they didn't obey The Lord their God. (Jesus).

In Daniel 9:24-26 (Tanakh), The Babylonians had destroyed the Jewish temple. But Daniel prophesied that it would be rebuilt, then "69 sevens" (483 years)(7x7+62x7=483) would pass since the rebuilding, and MESSIAH would come. Then, Messiah would be CUT OFF, and then, Foreigners would come and would destroy the Temple AGAIN.

“Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah, The King, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.h The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (Daniel 9:25-26)

We know Artaxerxes gave the command to restore the jewish temple, and Jerusalem. (Ezra 7:12-26, Tanakh). 483 years later, JESUS came, and he was CUT OFF. After Jesus, The ROMANS came(foreigners) and destroyed the temple and the city (AGAIN). And the Temple is still destroyed. JESUS fits PERFECTLY this prophecy in the tanakh. And if you put all the prophecies together, none other, but Jesus, is the Messiah, The King of Israel, The Lord our God.

In Tanakh (Isaiah 9:6), it says:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

This, of course, agrees with 2 Samuel 12:16, and with Genesis 49:10. David's throne and kingdom would be established FOREVER. We know, the only one who can rule FOREVER is GOD. (Not a man). So if JESUS is GOD, then, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, STILL GOD REIGNS over Israel (Jesus reigns). What other Jewish "CHILD" do you know whom people call "God"? "Everlasting Father"?
Only JESUS, in all of history, could fulfil this prophecy. Otherwise, the throne of David has been empty for 2000 years. (And is still empty, because today's political entity called Israel does not have a descendant of David as king), and Tanakh is false. The only way to make sense of Tanakh is if JESUS is The Messiah, and GOD.

Tanakh: Micah 5:2 says: "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet OUT OF THEE shall he come forth unto me that is to be RULER IN ISRAEL; whose goings forth have been from of old, FROM EVERLASTING."

So, the Ruler in Israel is FROM EVERLASTING? We know that Israel only has ONE Ruler, that is, GOD. And only GOD is "From everlasting". But, He's going to come out of BETHLEHEM Ephrata?. Who came out of Bethlehem Ephrata, who is the King of The Jews? JESUS. Jesus was born in Bethlehem Ephrata. Only Jesus fulfils ALL these prophecies, put together.

Tanakh (Malachi 3:1): Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and THE LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to HIS TEMPLE, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Well, The Temple is destroyed and has been destroyed for 2000 years. So, THE LORD must have come, before the Temple was destroyed. We know that JESUS came to HIS TEMPLE. (And then, it was destroyed not much later). So JESUS, again, must be THE LORD whom we seek.

TANAKH saysLeviticus 17:11)"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul".

So God commanded in Torah, to make atonement for sins WITH BLOOD, but ONLY in the Jewish Temple. (Deuteronomy 12:14-6, Deuteronomy 12:8-11, Deuteronomy 12:13-14). Not Anywhere else.

Now, we know that for 2000 years (since Jesus, pretty much), there has been no temple, and no more blood has been shed, for the remission of Sins. So, for 2000 years, it is impossible to practise Torah, which demands blood for the remission of sins. Unless JESUS is the FINAL sacrifice, and his blood atones for our sins. So, the only way to practice TORAH today (The temple is still destroyed) is to be a Christian.

Hosea 13 (Tanakh) GOD says:

"Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but IN ME is thine help.
I WILL BE THY KING: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath."

So we see here God rebuking Israel, for having a HUMAN king. GOD wants to be the King of Israel, FOREVER, and God doesn't want human kings to reign over HIS CHOSEN people. So, if JESUS is GOD, then there is a KING over Israel TODAY, and He reigns forever. But if you are waiting for a human, to save you, then it's like you don't want GOD to be your king. Israel needs no human king, besides God. And Jesus is God.

Also, the prophecies about the Messiah indicate that HE WILL REIGN FOREVER. We know no human can reign forever. So, the Messiah HAS TO BE GOD.

Also, about the MESSIAH having to Suffer, the ARM OF GOD having to suffer, Read Isaiah 52 and 23. Read Psalms 22, which is a picture of the crucifixion. Sounds like Jesus is the Messiah.

Shalom.

 

[Taller on my knees]

Great post David!

 

[David777]

I believe the promised land is heaven, not on this earth. Canaan was but a figure of heaven. Joshua from the Old Testament was a figure of Jesus (Although Joshua did exist, his life was prophetic of Jeshua).

 

[Doc]

So, David, based upon that Isaiah prophecy, I assume that you mean that Jesus is both fully God and fully man?

 

[lights12]

So, David, based upon that Isaiah prophecy, I assume that you mean that Jesus is both fully God and fully man?

I am so confused over this, seeming, argument. because to me Christ was both, as said above. I was taught this, literally, since birth. Other religions and historians acknowledge that Jesus was on the earth and recognize him as a prophet, so historically speaking there is no question of his existence on earth as a man, but under the tenets of Christianity, I thought and everyone I know was brought up to believe he was both. I know I am not a scholar at all, but my mother was very well read Biblically speaking, and came from a family of Pastors. She used to use the following quotes regarding this matter often.

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.(In other words, this was Christ's own words on the topic and God's word)

Rev 1:3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.
This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.(OK apart from him, the redeemer, there is no God)

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.(The Alpha and the Omega is forever, infinity if you will, and he,the Lord who is all three is, the Almighty or God)

This matches what is said in the prophecy statement Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

So to me, Jesus is God!!! Again I know I am no scholar, but I thought that was a given in Christianity, am I wrong???

Jen M

 

[Anonymous]

So to me, Jesus is God!!! Again I know I am no scholar, but I thought that was a given in Christianity, am I wrong???

Jen M

No, Jen, you are not wrong. There are multitudes of Scriptural references through out the Bible that support those you already mentioned. One of my favorites, is a simple one.

John 1:1-14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

One other simple one.

Matthew 1:22-23
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel", which being interpreted is, God with us.

These verses clearly tell us, without the use of Greek or Hebrew lexicons, or without turning to masses of scholars or theologians or church histories, that Jesus Christ is God. He is uniquely of all characters that ever trod Earthly soil, both God and man, wholly each, impossible for our finite minds to fully comprehend and appreciate. It is ours to stand in awe and then to fall at His feet in subjection, humility and praise and adoration. We may struggle to develop a theology that dissects His nature and character, reducing the Almighty to comprehensive pieces, easily cataloged and labeled. Unfortunately, when such procedures are implemented we find the sum of the pieces do not contain the life and all we are left with is a dead, lifeless corpse lying in pieces on our surgical table. When we, the created, attempt to define the Creator by our standards of understanding, we exhibit arrogance of the most awful, obnoxious kind. How dare we!!!

In a forum of this nature, we attract men and women who are already, by virtue of interest in Biblical and plural marriage, thinking out side the box. Some of us have already discovered the foundational truths of God's Word, others have only a rudimentary awareness of scripture and others have no knowledge of or interest in anything God decrees and declares. As a result, we have all manner of statements and questions about God and His plan. Consensus, however, does not determine right. God determines what we are to believe, to be in right fellowship with Him.

Actually, some very basic doctrines (teachings) are necessary for salvation. This is one of them. Jesus, the Christ is God in the flesh, remember Emmanuel? There are some that want to teach that He is a particle from God, that He had God in Him, some even want to teach that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same entity, just wearing different masks for events. However, none of these are true. He is fully God in a non-sinning human body, like ours. He was born, lived and died to be the perfect sacrifice for sin and the perfect high priest to bring us to the Father. Within reason, it doesn't matter what sounds we articulate, calling on Him (Hebrew, Greek, Spanish, English, Turkish or whatever), as long as we are calling upon Him who is God in the flesh. If we are calling on any other Jesus, the Catholic Jesus or the Mormon Jesus for example, we have missed the mark.

I am a staff member here at BF, the title that was given me is Staff Shepherd. I have been a pastor, preacher of the Word of God since 1968, a Christian since 1964. I have been married to the same woman since 1967. I am not a product of my college experience. The best one can learn in school is to know how to learn. I have been a student of the Word all these years. I know whereof I speak on so many of the things that are broached on this board and I do not like to operate from a position of authority, I want the power of the Word and it's message carry the day. It will do that for those that are sincere for Christ, but there are often among us, those that do not know the Lord. We mostly talk about plural marriage and it's issues here and that's OK, but we are BIBLICAL FAMILIES. We must have priorities to function within that framework. The number one priority must be that every man, woman and child must know the Lord to be able to walk with Him here and have a home in heaven with sins forgiven. This is more important than marriage, mono or poly. If I were persuaded that everyone that comes here were genuine believers in and devotee's to our Lord Jesus Christ, I would not be making this long post, infringing upon others comments. But, I am confident that many here do not know the Lord Jesus as Lord and Savior, I can tell by many doctrines that are purported as truth. I am zealous for the truth of the divinity, deity of Jesus the Christ, without Him all are lost for eternity. I cannot tolerate the confusing of this particular doctrine, not because I must be right and others wrong, but because, without Him we are all wrong and lost to hell for eternity. Not knowing the living God is the greatest tragedy of anyone's life and the only way we can know Him is as He presents Himself as Jesus Christ, God's introduction of Himself to the world. Don't get Him wrong, it's too important.

 

[Anonymous]

I am zealous for the truth of the divinity, deity of Jesus the Christ, without Him all are lost for eternity. I cannot tolerate the confusing of this particular doctrine, not because I must be right and others wrong, but because, without Him we are all wrong and lost to hell for eternity. Not knowing the living God is the greatest tragedy of anyone's life and the only way we can know Him is as He presents Himself as Jesus Christ, God's introduction of Himself to the world. Don't get Him wrong, it's too important.

Thank you for stating this outright and not dancing ambiguously around it, as has so often happened! This is perhaps the most foundational Truth the Bible teaches us. All believers should be ready to defend the Faith....thank you for doing so, with much compassion and eloquence.

 

[WomanSeekingGod]

These verses clearly tell us, without the use of Greek or Hebrew lexicons, or without turning to masses of scholars or theologians or church histories, that Jesus Christ is God.

Sometimes I wish we could like messages on here like we can on Facebook. Love what you said, Pastor!!

Actually, some very basic doctrines (teachings) are necessary for salvation. This is one of them.

I agree.

If I may add one verse to this (not that you need the help ). In John 8:24 Jesus says, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins." And so, we are told that if you don't believe that Jesus is God -- ie I AM (Exodus 3:14) -- you'll die in your sins. That's a BIG salvation issue.

Again, loved your message. Thank you for posting it!

WomanSeekingGod

 

[welltan]

Not knowing the living God is the greatest tragedy of anyone's life and the only way we can know Him is as He presents Himself as Jesus Christ, God's introduction of Himself to the world. Don't get Him wrong, it's too important.

I agree, the importance is eternal, and beyond this temporary vapor of life. The attempt at knowing God will always be just an attempt unless we see that God is wanting to know us too. A personal relationship with God through Christ is the divine plan. Without which we are as hopeless as the spider suspended over the fire.

 

[Doc]

Sorry if I confused anyone over my post. FTR, I believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man.

Blessings

Doc

 

[Anonymous]

This is the foundation of a Christian home and without this, we become like any other forum; anything
goes and if you are okay then I'm okay thinking. "Don't rock the boat" As Bro. Whitten stated, we have
to make a stand. It does become an issue when the widows, who have been drawn to this site, need
to question some of our men. Whether or not their Doctrine is the truth. and are they possibly entering
a covenant with a man, or family that preaches another gospel.

 

[welltan]

Whether or not their Doctrine is the truth. and are they possibly entering
a covenant with a man, or family that preaches another gospel.

Very true. One way to discern is if they are Christ centered. They should consistently start and end their communication with a focus on Christ. Otherwise they start and end their words with lofty opinion, religious jargon, and a rationalized God they have invented to try to resolve their own agenda. The inability to resolve everything while resting and hiding in Christ's love is a safe haven. Christ doesn't need us to know everything, only to be known by our Lord and Savior. There are a lot of words in Scripture, but perhaps the saddest is in Matt 7:23. "I never knew you: depart from me"

 

[CecilW]

Bingo! Well said and timely, Welltan. Thanks!