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Stuff we hadn't thought of

C

clyde44

New Member
Good Afternoon Ladies,
First let me say that we've set a date for ading the 2nd wife in mid July. :D Now I'll move on to the real topic.
We were having a conversation last night( hubby, me and the almost 2nd wife)and several interesting points were made. I'd like to hear other thoughts on these.We decided that these are things we're going to pray about and discuss further, but in the mean time, I'd like other opinions.Ok, here goes, in no particular order.
1- Should hubby and I get a divorce on paper so that Sis and I will be "equally" married to him?
2-What about his life insurance? Should he have two policies?
3-What about mine? Hers? Should we have two also?
4-What about custody issues about her son? Currently she has full custody.
5-What about collecting Social Security benefits in the event of a death.
I realize that these are all "worldly things", but for now, we live in this world and we do have to or may potentially have to deal with these things.
Thanks to all who put their "2 cents" in.
Clyde
 
Here is my 2 cents worth

1. I don't think he should get divorced from you unless there are issues with that require it. We certainly won't have hubby and T get divorced on paper.
2. We have two policies that are essentially equal. Each has both as partial beneficiaries. His work policy wasn't enough for both of us so we got a second one independent of work.
3.We don't have life insurance on us, but we should. I would have one with Hubby and T as co-beneficiaries I think.
4. Custody of her children is up to her. Does she have an ex that will create problems for her? When T and lived close to each other, (she has custody of her grandkids) I was emergency contact for the kids and I could pick them up at school.
5. If he dies the legal wife gets social security. This is one reason for the extra policy.

Hubby can specify lots of things in a will. He should definitely have a will and you and your sister should have one. That spells out and tells us what he wants in the event of his death. We may not be of this world but we do live in it and we need to pay attention to these things too.

SweetLissa
 
I have a different take on legal marriages.

If at the time you made your legal marriage you may not have been thinking that you would be living poly one day. So these vows may have been monogamous in nature. Essentially your husband may have made a legal contract to remain monogamous. I think equality is important, you shouldn't give one what you cannot give the other. Honestly i think it's a good test of being ready for poly or not, can you give up that legal standing? (disregarding material considerations) If not or if folks really believe that the government has the power to really divorce you from your husband...maybe there are some issues that need to be sorted.

A will is a good idea for everyone, in that you can spell out how your assets will be divided, custody arrangements and insurance can be made payable to more than one person in most cases. This is all quite easy to arrange with the companies concerned (at least it is here)
 
My take on the divorce issue is purely practical. T gets her health insurance through hubby's job. I get mine through my job. It would be prohibitably expensive for us to get insurance for her independently. Since she has never worked (except for when absolutely necessary) out side of the home, any job she might take would be bottom of the barrel with probably only the bare minimum of benefits.

It is easy for a person to say that a legal divorce is a test of whether you are ready to live poly or not, but reality is that if she gets sick and has no insurance we will all suffer.

That alone is enough to make me not wish for a divorce. I think that each family should make their own choices on this situation based on their own needs. But I would also never judge anyone on their decision to divorce from their legal wife or not. Again, it is based on what the needs of the family are.

SweetLissa
 
Personally, I don't think a legal divorce is necessary. When my husband and I find our third soulmate we are going to take new vows together, the three of us. We also plan on putting all marital assets into a LLP, this way we are legally bound together as a family. We know it's not the same as a marriage certificate, but it is a legal alternative. We have talked to a lot of poly families that have already set it up this way. It's a legal way of protecting everyone in the family. I've even heard of one family who took their vows, had a reception and then signed the LLP papers at the reception. Some people have gone the route of domestic partnership agreements, that is an option. You may want to find a lawyer who covers domestic partnership agreements as well as LLP's. Then you can discuss which might be the best way to protect everyone. Of course everyone is different, due to property or other assets.

I think EVERY family should have a life insurance policy that protects them. Mono or Poly this is essential. We currently have more than one life insurance, we will take out an additional policy to protect our new wife when we bind our lives together. No one should ever be without life insurance, I have a close friend whose husband thought he didn't need life insurance, he was in great health. She was left struggling when he died suddenly in his 40's. If you wait for life insurance then conditions can creep up which prevent you from being able to get life insurance. Don't wait. If you have your life insurance through work, get an additional policy in case you lose your job.

The custody issues are up to each family: If she wants her son to stay with the family in the event of her death, then she should ensure that your family are legal guardians in the event of her death.

There is also the issue of health care power of attorney. Since, the LLP doesn't cover that issue. Health care power of attorney should be given so that if she were to become ill and not able to make decisions your husband could do so for her, just like he can legally do for you now. This is necessary because they do not have the marriage certificate. Even though my husband and I have a marriage certificate, we also have health care power of attorneys so that a relative does not come forward and try to make decisions instead of the spouse.

If your new spouse doesn't work or needs insurance, the family will purchase a separate medical policy for her. This is important, no spouse should be without health insurance. Getting a separate health insurance policy is very easy to do.

It's also important that wills and/or trusts are set up and in place. This should be done with the lawyer who did the LLP or domestic partnership agreement.

Making sure everyone is protected, is important and as far as we are concerned an obligation. It may take some time to sort it all out, but it's important that everyone feel equal in the marriage. I don't think a divorce is necessary to do this. I know there are others that disagree, that is fine, everyone should make their own choices. We believe that in our case, we will both take new vows together with our new spouse.

Of course it's just my opinion : )
 
I never said that i think everyone with a legal marriage who wants poly must divorce. I thought i was pretty clear that i everyone3s situation is different, let me re-phrase.

I don't think people should not have a legal marriage if they want one, especially if there are material considerations, like insurance. Legal marriages can be very useful. However, if there are no insurance issues or other practical reasons and first wife is still clinging to her legal/first wife status like some sort of safety brake refusing to give it up for purely emotional reasons then I'd be wondering if things are really ready to roll on the poly front.
 
Which is why I said that it depended on every families needs. Each family must evaluate these things carefully. But from my perspective, if hubby and T were to divorce then I think it would be wrong for him to marry anyone legally. If legal marriage is so despised that he takes it from someone he has lived with for 35 years then no one should have it. Period, end of story.

SweetLissa
 
My thoughts on these issues...
Hello, Clyde. I may not be the best person to give you advice here since we are still searching for #2 but my husband and I have already discussed several of these issues whole-heartedly so I would like to share what our thoughts are on these questions you have.

#1. We feel that marriage is just a piece of paper when it is coming from the Government. The Government does not decide our love or what it consists of. And until we can legally marry more than one wife (which we doubt will happen in our lifetimes) we don't really care what the Government has to say about our marriage on paper or lack thereof. I do have a kindof weird feeling on this, and it is my feeling alone. If we are truly a family I would very much like for wife #2 to share our last name. Legally she would not be able to do this without legally marrying my husband. I would not want her viewed as an unwed mother if she had his children and if she was part of our family I really would like for her to share the name. That's part of being a family, right? I feel so. Another issue is insurance benefits..I am so fortunate in the fact that I work as a nurse, love my job and plan to continue to work at least on a part-time benefits eligible basis, so getting insurance benefits for me would not be a big problem. I understand that others are not so lucky so this may be different with different situations. Would I get a paper divorce right away when she comes into the family? No. I would need to see that she has spent some good amount of time with the family, that I could trust her to stick with us through the good times and the bad. But I would eventually like for her to legally marry my husband and take his last name. That is important to me. My husband's view? He doesn't care. As long as we are not doing anything illegal or drawing unnecessary attention to ourselves (he has a career to protect after all) he has no preference on who he is legally married to.
#2 and #3. Yes and Yes! I went through a terrible situation with a friend in which her husband was killed by falling off a roof while working. It was a horrible, difficult situation to say the least, her being a widow with two children, but thank goodness the situation was not made worse by a lack of life insurance. He had provided well for the family in that aspect and it made a terrible situation just a little bit easier. She did not have to stress about money and finances on top of everything else. Seeing that made me realize how extremely important it is to have life insurance. My husband has a large policy (5x his salary) as do I but if we were to add #2 to our family he told me he would get an additional term policy of an equal amount with her as beneficiary in case something was to happen. It's only fair, don't you think?
#4. About custody issues..this is a sticky one. I would try to see that the other parent of that child was in agreement of your situation if at all possible to try to prevent the drama that could possibly ensue such as a custody battle, etc. If the other parent is not in the picture, maybe the husband could adopt this child? Either way I would not put it on the child to not tell anyone and keep the family living situation a secret. That would put terrible stress on a child and it would not be fair. Just my opinion there.
#5. Unfortunately with our laws there is nothing you can do about wife #2's lack of social security benefits if you are legally married to wife #1. One thing I could suggest would be to make padding a 401k a priority and perhaps leave that amount to the wife who will not be getting the social security benefits? That is one idea but I guess as a family you would need to discuss that further to see what everyone feels is right and fair.
Hope my opinions have helped here. I know it is probably pretty silly that my husband and I have already discussed a lot of these issues before #2 has come into the picture, we are both pretty much type A people who have to plan out every little thing! LOL Very anal in other words! Hopefully our #2 can be more laid back and teach us how to be as well? LOL One can hope! Good luck to you and your family Clyde.
:-) Kacy
 
Great Post Kacylynn,

But a couple of things to consider...

Wife number 2 can do a legal name change. It is not a problem. It is one of the things we plan to do. And on the social security issue, when the other life insurance policy is put into affect, you can add another amount to it for that income.

Thanks for your input.

SweetLissa
 
Kacy, thanks for your 2 cents worth. As i said, there really was alot we hadn't thought of. We have decided that we'll all have life insurance with the other two as beneficiaries. We hadn't thought of changing her name to ours, but now that's something else to think of. We did figure what to do about her son. She currently has full custody of him (his father is a &^%$#^ who isn't part of his life), so she is going to make hubby and I his legal guardians if something was to happen to her before he's an adult. As far as not putting pressure on the child to "not tell" about our lifestyle, we'd never considered doing that. Because we've been so close, we've joked and teased about "our husband" and "our wife" for years, and he has heard us say that most of his life. Now that we mean it, I don't think he'll think anything different than he thought before. What he sees or has right now is a mom, and an aunt and uncle(We've been "aunt" and "uncle" all his life) who love him and are working together to raise him. Again, thanks to all for your advice.
Clyde
 
Lissa,
That is so cool that you can do a legal name change - I had no idea you could do that without getting married. Learn something new everyday!
Love
Kacy
P.S...So great to meet you all yesterday! :-)
 
I'm friends with a new third wife in a polyfamily, their family assets are all in a LLP. The second wife legally changed her name to their husband's and now the third wife plans to do the same. :)
 
I don't feel I have much of a right to say anything as I'm new to this website and to the issue of polygamy, but I do have experience as a divorced woman who went through custody issues with the court system, and do Biblical mentoring etc. My immediate concern in reading this was for the woman with full custody of a child. After being so blessed as to have her child, it would not be worth it to lose him/her on account of a world system that is unjust in the courts and would very happily retract their decision at first opportunity. My own personal opinion is that the man who is to be the husband-protector, and his entire household, make this the first priority. It's more important than any other issue, and for that reason and no other, I would keep the relationship as low-key as possible until the child is old enough to be past any risk of removal. It may not be the easiest or nicest thing, but I don't agree that the issue is how the child will handle it. If a child is happy, they can handle anything. "Be as wise as serpents and innocent as doves." You're not doing anything wrong, so don't allow the enemy of your household to take any advantage.
 
Beta
Thanks for your thoughts. As I said earlier we have been part of his life for most of it, and he's heard all of us saying "our wife", "our husband" "our son" as long as any of us can remember. He will not be here next month when we have the commitment ceremony that will make Sis hubby's wife. Please don't think that we're trying to hide this part from him, it's just that he is so young and we don't want to give him the opportunity to "blab" Sounds horrible to say it that way, but I think you know what I'm trying to say. Going back to school in the fall and telling his class that his mom just married her best friend's husband probably wouldn't be the best idea. We are on the east coast and the child's blood father is in the west. He isn't part of his life, rarely thinks to send a b-day card or anything else for that matter. We all agree that he will not be causing any trouble in that respect. In Tadpole's (my nickname for him) mind his mom moved here so that she could provide him with a better life than their home town would give him. We're having papers drawn up that give us custody if something happens to his mom before he's an adult, so that hubby and I can raise him. I hope that eases your mind a bit.
Clyde
 
Yes Clyde, that does ease my mind and is a good, thoughtful, and wise plan. All the best, Beta
 
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