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Tats!!!

Isabella

Member
Has anyone had tattoos removed?

I am not sure of the exact place but there is some sort of references to not marking the skin. Now personally I don't have any tattoos and I can't imagine liking anything enough to carry it around forever. I just keep thinking, one day I will be 80 and that tattoo will look very, very different, so anyway I would rather not. I am afraid that does tend to go for skin on other people I would have to look at when I am 80 (if I am lucky!) and personally, especially when some tattoo fans tend to go OTT, I wonder if anyone has, or would consider removing tats from a misspent youth?

So, is anyone willing to 'fess up?

B
 
I don't have any tats though I've seen some very beautiful artwork. I have toyed with the idea but nothing has really grabbed my attention strong enough to follow through.
I've seen some pretty cool Christian themed tats too.
 
Chris,"Christian" themes don't change anything. There used to be a nightclub here called "The Church" - the "Christian" decor didn't change what it was. In Ireland many people are into angels - "angel readings", carrying an angel in your wallet to bring you more money - the "Christian" theme doesn't change the fact that it is idolatry.

The only question here is whether Leviticus 19:28 is relevant to Christians. If it is, even a Christian-themed tattoo is a sin. If it is not, you're free to have barbed wire tattooed around your wrist or whatever you like, whether or not it is overtly Christian.
 
If one wants to go legalistic on Tats, they should prolly do so on women wearing head coverings and men beards as well. *sigh*

For whatever it is worth, when the council in Jerusaleem met to decide what elements of Jewishness were to be imposed upon the gentiles, they made no mention of either. Tho it can be argues that Paul's discussion of women's head covering came later and does apply.

In my family, my daughter, Angel, had giant black wings tattooed on her back. Oh well. I wasn't consulted. No tats myself, but not particularly offended when I see them.

As to the original question, Walmart carries tattoo fader cream on the shelf near the bandaids. Guess more and more folks want them to go away.
 
Samuel, I think I understand what you're saying... it's like saying milk is Christian because it came from a Christian cow (or at least a cow owned by a Christian farmer). In other words, people are the only beings that can be saved and therefore become Christian.

Based on my (very quick initial) reading of the text it seems to suggest that the cuts and tats had something to do with the dead. I don't have a good enough history background but makes me think that it was part of death rituals and perhaps even spirit worship (granted this is my reading into it). IF (assumption) that's true then it would suggest that any tattoo not done for those reasons aren't part of the ban. Now, if I'm wrong then all bets are off.

I do tend to follow Cecil's line of reasoning with what elements the council in Jerusalem decided, though I do wonder why Paul added to it.
 
eternitee said:
Leviticus 19:28

I do not have any tattoos, but I have had my ears pierced.
Just to clarify, a word comparable to 'tattoo' is not used in the Septuagint, so translating it is as such might be questionable.

An English translation of the verse from the Greek is as follows: "And cuts you shall not make for a soul on your body and letter marks you shall not make upon you." The word translated 'letter' pertains specifically to alphabetic characters. The word translated 'marks' refers to marking, branding, or imprinting.

Thus, without additional clarification the verse can pertain to either temporary or permanent markings. Consideration of the context and usage (i.e. 'make for a soul', possibly implying a 'dead' soul as well) also suggests a particular kind of 'branding' in the case of permanence. In particular, this verse seems to address marking yourself as belonging to a soul, as opposed to belonging to God. Note particularly that this verse does not specifically refer to picture representations (as are many tattoos). Note also that it might also refer to any temporary marking that suggests belonging to other than God (e.g. as part of a pagan ceremony of some kind).

As others have noted, these laws (like many others) were given to the Hebrews specifically whilst God led them Himself. Consider, for example, the command not to wear garments of commingled material (Leviticus 19:19) and our Lord's command to Peter not to call anything impure that God has made clean (Acts 10:15). It seems from the testimony of the apostles that Jesus' blood made much clean that was not formerly considered so. Just food for thoughtful reflection.

In any case, the purpose of my post is not to encourage tattoos, but rather to point out that the interpretation is not as simple as many make it seem.
 
I have come to the conclusion for myself that if I want Deuteronomy 21:10-14 to possibly apply to me someday, then maybe I ought not to take a sharpie to Lev. 19:28. It is just ten short verses after the second-most great commandment...

I am still learning.

Hoping to learn to be obedient in all areas of my life.

Maybe I read Acts 10 wrong, but I think that what the blood of Messiah made clean was people, specifically Cornelius and his household. And in Acts 15 at the pronouncement of the 'four things,' a fifth thing is mentioned, which was "get thee to the synagogue and hear the Law (Moses or Torah) being read. On the Sabbath.

I am still learning.

If tattoos make one unclean, (and I am not saying that they do), then can Messiah make that person clean again? Halleluyah!

Can he cleanse us from the covenant that we have made with death (which I did do at one time)?

I have placed all my hope that He did indeed annul my covenant with death, and daily I choose life. Be encouraged, and let us all strive to choose life.

That is what biblical family is about. And thanks for being my brothers and sisters. I am not nearly as lonely.

Walt

Walt
 
I'm glad that we have a place we can post questions and have a group of people with varying degrees of Bible knowledge to discuss these things. So, thank you for throwing the question out there. Without questions, there could be no discussion.
Blessings,
Chris
 
Walt said:
If tattoos make one unclean, (and I am not saying that they do),...
I refer you to the passage where Jesus said that it isn't what goes into your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of your heart via your mouth.

If it is the internal which we harbor which defiles, rather than the external, then it seems logical that tats aren't real big on His list of concerns. Not high enough for Him to bother addressing them directly in any way during His life on earth. And the if-then logic seems fairly strong.

So, if this has been a trouble to your mind, please allow me to suggest that the sense of trouble and weight of guilt is more likely coming from the Accuser (Rev 12:10?) than from the Holy Spirit. And you have every right to tell the Accuser to take a hike, for there is now NO condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus! Hoo-Yah! :D
 
Walt said:
Maybe I read Acts 10 wrong, but I think that what the blood of Messiah made clean was people, specifically Cornelius and his household.
Indeed. You've made my point. Cornelius was a gentile and brought with him all the gentile 'baggage' of customs foreign to the Hebrews and contrary to the customs imposed upon them by God when He led them Himself. Yet, God gave Peter a vision regarding a violation of these Hebrew customs and when Peter responded by declaring he would not violate God's law (in Peter's limited understanding thereof), God admonished him with the words "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." A key chapter to read in this case is Romans 14, for it clarifies this greatly and instructs us regarding how the weaker and stronger among us are to treat one-another when such controversies arise. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 14&version=ESV

In any case, when the Lord convicted, quickened, and finally called me, I already had four tattoos; one of which was quite offensive to particular people who might see it. I chose to cover that mistake with a copy of a famous medieval christian painting to avoid such offense. My conviction remains the most intense emotional and personal event of my life. His spirit spoke directly through my utter depravity, used my own pride to do so, and utterly destroyed my protest against His rule over my life through a miracle involving the text of the verse Proverbs 3:5. Thus, I chose to tattoo the text of Proverbs 3:5 on the back of my neck to honor His work, and I love to tell the story to others. Later, I choose to tattoo "It is finished" (John 19:30) on my outer right forearm, and "He has risen" (Mark 16:6) on my outer left forearm; and I'm very happy to tell people that notice them why I would do such a thing. Finally, when He answered my prayer for children, I chose to have an arrow tattooed on my calf for each child he gives me to remind me of who builds the house and how very great a blessing it is to be the head thereof under His rule (Psalm 127 - I hope my calf might one day look as a quiver full of arrows). This provides yet another opportunity to share His word.

When I married the lovely bride He gave me, I choose to have our wedding rings inscribed in Hebrew. Mine is inscribed "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" (Joshua 24:15) and I've been playing with the idea of having that tattooed on my ring finger. I'm sure that if I do, someone will notice and ask what it says and why I chose to do it; which would provide yet more opportunity for "good works prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). When my two-year-old son wants to help us with a task it usually takes much longer to accomplish and there is more mess to clean up. We do not let him participate because we need his help, but rather because he wants to help. Whereas God is a much better father than any of us can ever hope to be, I have every confidence that God bears with great patience all my futile and misguided attempts to serve Him and cleans up the extra mess I leave when I think I've finished.

Perhaps our Lord chose to call me because I'm honored and delighted to bear His Word on the flesh He gave me; to make known to everyone who sees me that it is He who I worship and serve. Perhaps He needed a gentile with no 'baggage' regarding tattoos to do this particular work among others not yet called. He calls many of us at various times in our lives, and from many places and traditions that are not for the pious. Perhaps I'm misguided. Regardless, I know He called me and He gave me Jesus. Thus, glory to God that my good works are not my own, and praise be to God that my errors will not be counted against me.

In any case, as I said before, I do not wish to encourage anyone to get tattoos. Nor is it my plan to convince anyone of what our Lord thinks on the matter. All I seek to do is point out that (1) God invited gentiles (with their tattoos and other foreign customs) into His family after our Lord and Savior, Christ, 'finished it' for all eternity; and (2) that He says "so do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil" (Romans 14:16); and finally (3) that He says "let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him" (Romans 14:3). Perhaps also noteworthy, I caution against stretching this too far (i.e. rightly divide the ceremonial or specific commands to the Hebrews from sin applicable to all).
 
The point of my earlier post was to focus the discussion on the text, not explain my view. Obviously the past is forgiven, and the best preachers tend to be the ones with the most tattoos, which speak of the past they have been saved from by Christ. The real question is whether a Christian should get tattoos after conversion.

In the Hebrew, the word translated "mark" means "incision, imprintment, tattoo, mark" according to my concordance, it seems broader than just writing. I also read the second half of the verse as separate from the first, and broader, not limited to marks made for the dead. The Hebrew would include all tattoos by my reading.

Whether it applies to us though is a tough one. Leviticus 19 includes commands that I would think certainly apply to us (v29,30), and others that I would not apply to us as I can't understand the reason behind them (v19). I am not sure how to approach this chapter consistently.

For me, I err on the side of caution and don't get tattoos. However I am not legalistic about this regarding others, the interpretation is questionable so it's certainly a case of "let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind" (Romans 14:5).
 
FollowingHim said:
Whether it applies to us though is a tough one. Leviticus 19 includes commands that I would think certainly apply to us (v29,30), and others that I would not apply to us as I can't understand the reason behind them (v19). I am not sure how to approach this chapter consistently.
Exactly. For me it seems obvious to draw a line at the aesthetic. To others, this is not obvious or may be contrary to their thinking. Romans 14 then becomes vitally important to keep in mind for us all.

Clearly dietary restrictions and even circumcision were explicitly set aside. In these two cases, the punishment (as I recall) was to be unclean until cleansed and cut off from one's people, respectively. But the stated purpose of the condemnation was also the breaking of a covenant with Him to live by His statutes. Jeremiah 31:31–34 prophesies of the new covenant; which is confirmed in Hebrews 8:8–12. Christ Himself spoke of the new covenant and instituted what we call communion as a sacrament for His people on the eve of his crucifixion (Luke 22:20). Paul subsequently addresses our death to the old covenant and resurrection into the new covenant in Christ in Romans 7:4-6, and clarifies communion in a rebuke to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 11:17-33).

Note particularly that the scope of Christ's earthly precrucifixion ministry was generally limited to the Hebrews (Matthew 15:26-28); apparently in accord with the old covenant. However, in Matthew 28:18-20 we see a different command (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 28:18-20&version=ESV) to follow which reflects this new covenant. Thus, we follow what Christ commanded the eleven disciples, available to us through the documentation of His ministry and the additional letters of the new testament; we follow Christ and serve Him in His purpose.

I'm sure none of this is new to many of you. However, I include it here for those that might be confused by our varying opinions on matters.
 
Tattoos have a very special magical power with me.

It is the same incredible power that smoking has.

In the sense that, if I see a woman, and she has a tattoo or is smoking, I instantly lose all personal interest in her. In a moment. Magically. Zap! Gone!Regardless of any of her other features.

This doesn't stop me relating to her - I have had a number of family members and employees with tattoos, piercings and who smoke.

It is just a personal thing for me, and it operates at the subconcious level. I don't actively think this at the time I see someone, it just happens.

That is my personal perspective on tattoos, not intended as a universal truth.

ylop
 
ylop:

One thing I have been heard saying many times: "I have never seen a beautiful woman smoking." Agree with you on that one.


Walt
 
Walt said:
ylop:

One thing I have been heard saying many times: "I have never seen a beautiful woman smoking." Agree with you on that one.


Walt

I am the same, smoking is a filthy habit and I can't help thinking that a man who smokes has little to no self control, it just seems weak willed and turns me right off. I am not less unforgiving about tattoos but if a man has one that is clearly visible whilst wearing smart casual, he is not for me, sorry but....not nice.

B
 
It seems to me that if you are going to say what laws are gone they either are all gone and none count or they all do. I have many I am also half Polynesian and culture conflicts with what "society" says I should do. In my heart is where it counts! If I am ok with getting them done then so be it. I know people who have gotten them and latter removed though you can still see it it is just not as visible it is never truly gone unless you cut the skin off. To me personally every person is different as is what their life is supposed to accumulate to! I have heard from both sides of the fence and I have personally come to this conclusion. It is ok for me because I feel no regret for getting them done. I did not get them in any kind of pagan ceremony nor do I worship them. Thus making them fine for me. It is really up too you to see if they are right for you or not.
 
If you have ever felt the pain of getting tatted I would beg to differ. There is nothing weak willed about it. I got all of mine done the traditional way, not a gun. Thus the pain is real, but to me that is the way to earn them.

Isabella said:
Walt said:
ylop:

One thing I have been heard saying many times: "I have never seen a beautiful woman smoking." Agree with you on that one.


Walt

I am the same, smoking is a filthy habit and I can't help thinking that a man who smokes has little to no self control, it just seems weak willed and turns me right off. I am not less unforgiving about tattoos but if a man has one that is clearly visible whilst wearing smart casual, he is not for me, sorry but....not nice.

B
 
Gillfam said:
If you have ever felt the pain of getting tatted I would beg to differ. There is nothing weak willed about it. I got all of mine done the traditional way, not a gun. Thus the pain is real, but to me that is the way to earn them.

I was referring to smoking, not tattoos. I may not have been clear in my post about how I feel about tattoos, I was not referring to beautiful art work and designs on the arms or back, which are acceptable to me. I am talking to prison tattoos, love and hate on knuckles, tattoos on the hand or face that cannot be hidden if one is going to court or a wedding!! :P

B
 
Someone mentioned tattoos might look different when someone turns 80. It might be interesting to get a tattoo when you are young to see how your skin changes when you get old. But you could just look at what happened to other people, there probably are enough people who already did this to do a study without getting new ones. But I still would not endorse tattoos. People already mentioned related Bible verses.
 
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