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The Enemy of MY Family

Verifyveritas76

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
So to give some background, this morning in our Sunday morning Family Time/ Bible Study, we discussed several things and issues relating to family, past and current. One of the isssues that surfaced was the topic of monogamy only marriage vows that were exchanged including the expectations and intents of those vows when they were exchanged.

I know from many conversations on this forum and in real life that this is a huge stumbling block in most marriages as they move towards a Biblical Family mindset.

Typically that conversation goes something like this.

Him> Baby, you’ll never believe what I just learned. You know that monogamy only thing we were taught was Biblical? It’s not true!!!!!! Yeaaaaa!!!!!
Her>. What the heck are you talking about? There’s no way!
Him>. Check it out for yourself
Her>. (After searching through the Scriptures for months). Um . . . . I guess you’re right, but . . . You vowed to love and be married to me alone! So whether or not its biblical, you cant break our vows!!!
Him>. Um . . . . You’re right. . . .but it’s biblical! Um. . . . Don’t you wanna be biblical? How about we redo our vows so that we’re more in line with what’s biblical?
Her>. Sooooo Solly! I like the way it is now, this is what WE agreed to originally and I don’t want it to change.
Him (thinking)>. If I had known that I could have built my family structure differently, I wouldn’t have agreed to those vows.:(
Her (thinking)> Sucks to be you:cool:

Everything in the above conversation revolves around the wedding vows. Everyone that I’m aware of who has been married pre-knowledge of Biblical acceptance of poly has gotten caught up in the monogamy only wedding vows trap. Except me!

Now, I don’t know how that happened, because our mutual intent and understanding of our marriage was to be married to each other monogamously. That was the basis and foundation of our vows as we knew it. Our conversations with each other on the subject over the last few years have been had with this understanding and as some of you have read, about 2 years ago we revised our vows more in accordance with a Biblical view.

Fast forward to several months ago, and we pulled out our wedding file and was going thru it and I discovered that the pastor that married us was kind enough to give us his notes that he used to perform the ceremony, including our vows. Imagine my surprise to find out that mine were actually Biblical as was hers.
My vows to her was as follows:

I, VV6, take thee, Well loved wife, to be my lawful wedded wife, to have and to hold from this day forward for better for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, til death do us part. According to God’s holy ordinance, and thereto I give thee my love.

Hers: I, Well loved wife; in the presence of Almighty God and these witnesses here present, promise to love, honor, and obey this man, VV76, Whose hands I now hold, I promise to be true and faithful to him, I promise to forsake all others and cleave unto him and him only until death do us part.

So my vows, as best I can tell are not exclusive and hers are. Just as they were supposed to be. I have not had a chance to ask the pastor why he did them this way, and he may not even be alive, but I will forever be thankful whatever the reason.

Thats great for me, sucks for the rest of you guys!!! Just kidding! For me, I have not used this as leverage in our relationship (I really didnt need to as we’d already modified our vows) but the issue of intent when we were married has come up several times, as it did this morning. The actual vows notwithstanding, it was undeniably my intent to be married to my wife and be faithful to her only. I simply had no idea that there was another perfectly acceptable blueprint that I could choose to build my family on.

For a lot of first wives, this is a huge issue. Some will say that had they known beforehand that poly was on the table, they would have never agreed and maybe they are right. Maybe not. After this morning that direction of conversation does not have the impact for me that it did previously. Why? Before, I was more concerned with helping my wife deal with the idea of being ok with choosing poly.

But this morning, I realized something. Whether the fault lies with the culture, or the Christian upbringing or lack thereof, or the men and women who (advertently or inadvertently) presented me with two and only two options for my life (celibacy and monogamy), they were the catalyst that kept me from my God given right to build my family as I chose. It’s all about the family. If I had full knowledge of poly and chose to restrict myself to monogamy, then I’d have no room to complain about it. No one else would be responsible for restricting my family. But thats not the case. In fact, I am certain that had I known that polygyny was a biblically acceptable construct, I would definitely have pursued a couple of other wives when I was younger.

I’m not looking to create a boogeyman or fabricate an enemy of my family. I am not looking to assign blame for deliberate choices I made. What I came to realize today was that there exists a very real enemy of my family and this enemy deliberately defrauded me of my God given right to design and build my family within the parameters of God’s design as I knowingly chose and to the fullest extent of my God given abilities.

In so many words, the right to build my family to the fullest extent of God’s blessing and my abilities I’ve come to realize is my birthright. Anything that is contrary to that (including my own limitations and lack of informed consent) is the enemy of my family.
 
False teachers abound. And many of them claim to be christian.
It is neat that you marriage began with biblical vows.
With all the redefining of terms that has happened we are fast approaching a time when the masses may once again me incited to kill Christians, and will believe they are doing right.
If you want something inspirational, this reading of "The Law" or the same man's presentation on the perfect tax are gold.
When the real nature of government is revealed it is only the corrupt and lazy that will seek to support it in it's current form.
 
Amen and amen @Verifyveritas76 !
Our family / our household is our domain to build as we see fit... it is our God given birthright !
The enemy attacks the structure of Biblical Family more than anything else on earth it seems... and for good reason ... cuz he knows that a powerful godly family unit is very productive for the Kingdom of God!
 
Everyone that I’m aware of who has been married pre-knowledge of Biblical acceptance of poly has gotten caught up in the monogamy only wedding vows trap. Except me!

And me.

Too many men act like a kid in a candy store when his mother tells him he can have as many candies as he wants.

Had I pressed the issue in the first 6 to 12 months I might have gotten that push-back. But I didn't; instead I led her. Within a year or two she came to me saying we should consider doing it. But I still didn't jump because it didn't fit my mission at the time (and I didn't think she was ready yet).

to be my lawful wedded wife

Are you sure that part is Biblical?

Whether the fault lies with the culture, or the Christian upbringing or lack thereof, or the men and women who (advertently or inadvertently) presented me with two and only two options for my life (celibacy and monogamy), they were the catalyst that kept me from my God given right to build my family as I chose

Love this part.
 
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So my vows, as best I can tell are not exclusive and hers are. Just as they were supposed to be. I have not had a chance to ask the pastor why he did them this way, and he may not even be alive, but I will forever be thankful whatever the reason.

Let us know when you find him! I’m curious to know if he did that on purpose or if it was by mistake :)
 
I was surprised to find out that a lot of old wedding vows didn't restrict the man. We used some old Anglican vows for our wedding and they didn't do so. Windblown already knew about poly though so it wasn't ws big of a deal.
That’s weird, because ‘monogamy only’ has been the church law for centuries before the Anglicans came along and they held to that too. I’m interested to know why they would do that.
 
Let us know when you find him! I’m curious to know if he did that on purpose or if it was by mistake :)

Being where you’re from you may know him or of him. His name is Bob Johnson and he pastored then in Klamath Falls OR. Last time we saw them in 2016? He was pastoring a small church in Myrtle Creek? Just south of Roseburg.
 
That’s weird, because ‘monogamy only’ has been the church law for centuries before the Anglicans came along and they held to that too. I’m interested to know why they would do that.
Me too. Just off the top of my head it was the Book of Common Prayer of 1600 something and it seems like Moriah didn't even have a vow. I really liked the vow.
 
Me too. Just off the top of my head it was the Book of Common Prayer of 1600 something and it seems like Moriah didn't even have a vow. I really liked the vow.

That is correct...

In the time of the Roman Empire (17 BC – 476 AD) the lower classes had "free" marriages. The bride's father would deliver her to the groom, and the two agreed that they were wed, and would keep the vow of marriage by mutual consent. Wealthy Romans, though, would sign documents listing property rights to publicly declare that their union was legalized and not a common law marriage. This was the beginning of the official recording of marriage[citation needed].

The oldest traditional wedding vows can be traced back to the manuals of the medieval church. In England, there were manuals of the dioceses of Salisbury (Sarum) and York. The compilers of the first Book of Common Prayer, published in 1549, based its marriage service mainly on the Sarum manual.[2][3] Upon agreement to marry, the Church of England usually offered couples a choice. The couple could promise each other to "love and cherish" or, alternatively, the groom promises to "love, cherish, and worship", and the bride to "love, cherish, and obey".[4]

The Sarum rite (i.e. order of mass/worship service) was composed sometime soon after 1078. However even that is based on an older Norman/Frankish rite or a mix of that and original Celtic rites; which puts its influences back to before the 600's at the latest. We really don't know how old those words of the vow are. Ancient.

Which means they do indeed likely pre-date the fixation of monogamy within Catholic practice. They may even pre-date Christianity itself.

Oh, so much more I could say about those vows, but would take us far afield. Instead let me amplify this point:

Whether the fault lies with the culture, or the Christian upbringing or lack thereof, or the men and women who (advertently or inadvertently) presented me with two and only two options for my life (celibacy and monogamy), they were the catalyst that kept me from my God given right to build my family as I chose. It’s all about the family. If I had full knowledge of poly and chose to restrict myself to monogamy, then I’d have no room to complain about it. No one else would be responsible for restricting my family. But thats not the case. In fact, I am certain that had I known that polygyny was a biblically acceptable construct, I would definitely have pursued a couple of other wives when I was younger.

I’m not looking to create a boogeyman or fabricate an enemy of my family. I am not looking to assign blame for deliberate choices I made. What I came to realize today was that there exists a very real enemy of my family and this enemy deliberately defrauded me of my God given right to design and build my family within the parameters of God’s design as I knowingly chose and to the fullest extent of my God given abilities.

In so many words, the right to build my family to the fullest extent of God’s blessing and my abilities I’ve come to realize is my birthright. Anything that is contrary to that (including my own limitations and lack of informed consent) is the enemy of my family.

This is so powerful to me...

My birthright as a man is to design and build my family within the parameters of God’s design as I knowingly chose and to the fullest extent of my God given abilities.
I feel like that should be on our masthead or something. It feels like a breakthrough so big it's a revelation.

It brings a few questions to mind:

1. In modern contractual law, a fraud of such magnitude could arguably be enough to get a contract tossed out in court. Can we say the same before God? Would God release us from such a vow being we were deceived into agreeing with something contrary to His plans, our rights, and His ideals for this life?

2. Put slightly differently, can we argue that we were ignorant of our birthright, and were deceived into giving it up unknowingly, and therefor such vow is null and void?

3. If our wife violates her vows (as do most wives w.r.t. 'obey') does that nullify the whole thing?

4. What other birthrights have we lost or been deceived out of?
 

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This topic last Sunday has definitely resulted a breakthrough for me of massive proportions, most of which I must ruminate on some more until I’ve gotten my brain wrapped around it a bit better before I open up more.

My immediate reaction to seeing and understanding this principle was an almost visceral anger which is very unusual for me, and I had to try my hardest to keep it out of the post as much as possible. To recognize that you have been defrauded since birth of a God given right by the entire culture, including those most trusted to disseminate Scriptural truth and knowledge . . . . It was extremely difficult to process.
 
A fascinating concept, Joe.
I have never before considered the defrauding aspect and how my life would have differed had I not been constrained by the adherence of those who supposedly were to watch for our souls to the traditions of men.
 
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