THE TRUE SABBATH

[Lionking]

I'm very new to this site, I joined a few days ago, I like what I see, you guys are like a family, which is what we should be anyway; brothers & sisters in Christ.

I was reading a topic posted that talked about the Bereans & who they are, the answers given were perfectly correct and has prompted me to ask this question as to which Sabbath is the true Sabbath and which is the spurious one, is it Saturday or Sunday.

I ask this because I recently became a Christian and I've purposed in my heart to serve the Lord according to His Word and not to follow the doctrines of men or cunningly devised fables. Does the "rest" the the Apostle Paul spoke of in Heb. 3 & 4 allude to which is the true sabbath?

By the way, just a short summary of who the Bereans are for those who may not have read the post. They are people who search the scriptures daily to see if what is preached to them is in fact scriptural; refusing to accept heresies.

I notice that there are many Bereans on this forum.

 

[Curtis]

I am sure others will add more but here is a short summary...

Sunday worship was first established by Constantine in around 320 AD via edict for the veneration of the Sun god preceding his false "Christianization" of the Roman empire. This is the origin of the "Blue Laws" and such that set the first day of the week apart as special and certain commerce restricted.

Many of the 3rd and 4th century "believers" honored both the original Yah instituted 7th day Sabbath but with time, the strength and persecutions of the Roman Catholics largely stamped out the public presence of those who maintain the Abrahuw (Hebrew) roots. Mental models were laid down and great truths lost that pervert understanding to this day. Huge corruptions transpired in a great host of areas over the greater than 1000 years of oppressive dominance.

Back to the main topic... The Sabbath has been and always will be on 7th day. Honoring the Sabbath has been a great blessing to my family, truly it was made for Man to be just that.

I found this article helpful relating to when the weekly Sabbath starts and ends ... http://www.12hoursabbath.com/

As with everything expect some diversity of opinion on all of this.

I hope this helps,

Curtis

 

[CecilW]

which Sabbath is the true Sabbath and which is the spurious one, is it Saturday or Sunday?

At creation: God rested on the 7th day and hallowed it.

In the Wilderness, before Sanai: He gave manna for 40 years, with double on the 6th day and none on the 7th. Guess He thought it significant.

The 10 Commandments: The 4th identifies it as the 7th day. One of the very few times God spoke audibly to people at large.

Isaiah: Talking of heaven says that from Sabbath to Sabbath we will come to worship. it will presumably still be in effect.

God: Claims to never change and that His law is perfect, and thus in no need of further improvement.

Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath, not the first day.

Jesus claimed that He did NOT come to destroy the law but to fulfill it, and that even the dot over an "i" or the cross on a "t" (in English terms, with apologies to you wild-eyed Hebrew scholars) will not change. "Fulfill", therefore <> (is not equal to) "Destroy" or "Change" or "Do away with".

Paul's practice was to attend and preach in the synagogues on the 7th day.

Early Christians in Rome began changing their practice to the first day as a means of distancing themselves from the Jews during a time that paganism was seeping into the church and Jewish hotheadedness was bringing on further persecution. Observance of the first day thus had its origins, not in the resurrection of our Lord, but in anti-Semitism.

Constantine made laws requiring veneration of the first day in 326AD or so, and it went downhill from there.

The Jews have always kept track and continued observance of the 7th day, as have various groups of Christians throughout history, such as the Ethiopians, Celts, and Nestorians. They've also been more or less continually persecuted for it. There are over 400 denominations in the US alone regestered as observing the 7th day as Sabbath.

The church of Rome makes no bones about the fact that the change is a matter of their own authority. They further deride so-called "Protestants" who, while self-righteously claiming to be adherents to Sola Scriptura, yet continue to bow the knee to the mark of Rome's authority.

Still uncertain as to which day is the 7th and which is the first? After all, calendars in recent years HAVE begun to put Monday as the 1st day of their week, and the Pope recently declared Sunday to be te 7th, in a mind-boggling break from the last however many millenia ...

On which day of the week does all Christendom celebrate Easter? That would be the first day, and is preceeded by the 7th. *shrug* No big mystery. Work hard for 6 days. Rest one. Repeat indefinitely. *grin*

I'm writing this off the top of my head at work. There are many quotations showing that past and modern theologians agree that the 7th day is still the Sabbath, whether they choose to observe it or not. There are also many, many quotations available from official Catholic documents stating that the change is a matter of their own authority, not something drawn from scripture. I will try to remember to look up and post a few of these tonight.

 

[Lionking]

Hallelujah, I feel truly blessed to be on this forum with people who believe in and practice the true worship on the day that GOD has set aside for holy convocation. I must be honest and confess to you guys that I did not ask the question because I didn't know the facts that you so readily & helpfully given me, but I just wanted to know the depth of your devotion to the Lord in keeping His commandments. Also I wanted to know whether or not I'm on a forum with people who share my core beliefs and convictions on what the scriptures expressly teaches.

Though I already know these facts, I sincerely hope that it serves to the edification of those who are curious and visit this forum.

I do believe that we are living in the last days and very soon the Sunday blue law that Curtis mentioned is soon to be put into effect. I pray that the latter rain will fall on us, enabling us to swell the third angel message to it's loud cry, calling men to come out from among them(Babylon). Please pray for me as I will be praying for you to become fishers of men and making disciples of them; seeking lost souls. Amen.

 

[CecilW]

Make no mistake, LionKing, this board contains a widely divergent group of people.

There are Sabbatarians here: Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-day Church of God, Messianic, and others.

There are also "traditional" Christians here who still pretty much worship on Sunday: Baptists, Lutherans, Assembly of God, Pentecostals, even (surprisingly) a Catholic or two. And everywhere in between. Including devoted followers of Christ who either home-church or don't church at present.

I think we've also got a pretty large group who I would describe as "in transition". The same dedication to God and Sola Scriptura that leads us to question and arrive at Biblical teachings regarding marriage and polygyny tends, in time, to lead to a Biblical understanding of the Sabbath. But it can take a while. First exposure, intellectual consent, first steps of personal application, etc.

We don't make it an issue for THIS board / forum / website. There are other websites dedicated to that issue. This one is pretty much dedicated to the issue of marriage and plural marriage. We're all on different paths, ya know?

 

[DaPastor]

There are certainly many view concerning this topic here. Before I begin addressing the issue, I would like to say that I teach that the Sabbath is Saturday. However, I do not teach that is is necessary that believers worship on the Sabbath, and many of those I have seen over the years that practice "keeping the Sabbath" do not practice it according to the Law anyway, so it tends to be a joke. Here is how one is supposed to practice the Sabbath:

First the Negatives:

1. Do not go out of your place (Exodus 16:29)
2. Do not bake or boil (Exodus 16:23)
3. Do not do any work (Exodus 20:10; 34:21)
4. Do not build a fire (Exodus 35:1, 3): Think this one out to its logical conclusion!
5. Do not carry a load (Jeremiah 17:27; Nehemiah 1:15)
6. Do not buy or sell (Nehemiah 10:31; Amos 8:5ff)
7. Do not do your own pleasure (Isaiah 58:13, 14): Think this one out to its logical conclusion!

Next, the Positives:

1. Keep it holy (Exodus 20:8)
2. Rest (Exodus 31:15)
3. Observe or celebrate (Exodus 31:16)
4. Delight in the Lord (Isaiah 58:14)
5. Time of the Sabbath (Leviticus 23:32): For the Bereans, it should be noted that this instruction is given in connection with the day of atonement but was interpreted by the Jews to apply to all Sabbaths. In other words, I do not believe there is one Scripture that directly applies to the weekly Sabbath concerning the exact time of beginning or end.

So, my contention is if one believes that the Sabbath is to be practiced, then practice it. Don't act like you practice it.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Randy for that good bible referencing. I too understand that the Sabbath is saturday. I have a belief now that Jesus is our Sabbath rest and the Lord of the Sabbath and He is who the Sabbath points to as our ultimate rest.

 

[DaPastor]

There is a "wives tale" that says the early church worshipped on Saturday until Constantine. The actualy evidence from Church is that the majority of Christians did not worship on Saturday. I have many quotes from believers before Constantine was ever born that make this clear. However, just for fun, here is a quote from the pastor that took over the church of Antioch from Pastor Evodias. Peter was the first pastor, btw. This is the same church where Paul launched all his missionary activities from. I am speaking of Pastor Ignatius. He was born around AD35. He took over this pastorate AD67. This was the approximate year that both Paul and Peter were martyred. Some scholars suggest that he was personally discipled by Apostle John. So, now we have a man who grew up in the second most significant church of the day. The same place where he watched Peter and Paul preached. In other words, he was in the very center of what Christianity represented. This is the man who says:

Those who have been brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., converted Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath but living in observance of the Lord's day.

–Ignatius, Magnesians 10, A.D. 110

Just something to think about... blessings!

 

[CecilW]

... many of those I have seen over the years that practice "keeping the Sabbath" do not practice it according to the Law anyway, so it tends to be a joke. ... my contention is if one believes that the Sabbath is to be practiced, then practice it. Don't act like you practice it.

Just wanna be sure I understand you, Randy ...

If we don't practice it perfectly, we're a joke? Better not to do it at all, or claim to be doing it, than to do so less than perfectly (whatever that may be)?

Do you want to think THAT one out to its logical conclusion in all its ramifications?

It would certainly make me nervous. There are waaaaay too many things that I do imperfectly, then try again, and still mess up on, and keep trying. Sometimes I walk the walk. Too often I SEE the walk, but stumble around, fall over, and end up crawling along it.

Still ... crawling along, however slowly and painfully, is still progress, is it not?

 

[CecilW]

–Ignatius, Magnesians 10, A.D. 110

Yikes. Somehow, my NT doesn't include that book. I just got Paul still doing what God said to do, since God never said different but does say He doesn't change.

For a contrary view of what Ignatius wrote, please check out http://www.cogwriter.com/ignatius.htm . It seems that there have been some biased translators at play again, doing their best to justify the party line, just as they do with "mia" in Titus and Timothy.

For the short version ... what he wrote was that we should keep Sabbath according to the Lord's way, not according to the legalistic Judaic way. This makes sense. One of the things Jesus did was to attempt to restore our understanding of God's intent in the Sabbath -- to rest and do good, rather than it being a burden, weighed down with tradition.

Thus, He healed folks, and walked around, and ate grain from fields. But He also went to the synagogue and preached.

This in contrast to the traditions of the rabbis who did things like have folks put a marker a mile from their front door, and allow them to walk around within that radius, but no further. To pull their donkey out of a ditch, but not to heal someone. To hire a non-jew (nowadays) to flip their light switches, but not do so themselves.

 

[DaPastor]

Just wanna be sure I understand you, Randy ...

If we don't practice it perfectly, we're a joke? Better not to do it at all, or claim to be doing it, than to do so less than perfectly (whatever that may be)?

Do you want to think THAT one out to its logical conclusion in all its ramifications?

It would certainly make me nervous. There are waaaaay too many things that I do imperfectly, then try again, and still mess up on, and keep trying. Sometimes I walk the walk. Too often I SEE the walk, but stumble around, fall over, and end up crawling along it.

Still ... crawling along, however slowly and painfully, is still progress, is it not?

Hello Cecil,

The point I am trying to make is that if one "demands" that the Sabbath is to be practiced, yet, doesn't demand that it be practied correctly, then it is inconsistent, and makes the whole demand seem like it is a joke. Of course, the reality is that none of us follow all the things we believe perfectly, but if I say that one should read the Bible both day and night, I better be following that more often than not. It is hypocritical to demand something for others and not follow it yourself, wouldn't you agree? So, I am not speaking of "perfectionism", but rather, "consistency" - we should all practice what we preach! I think Scripture exhorts us to do that, don't you?

Should there be grace allowed for growth and stumbling - sure! However, I believe that it is important to live out what we believe, more often than not! Furthermore, those that have observed who make the DAY of the Sabbath a big issue, then turn around and say that all the things associated with it is "legalism". My goodness, a person cannot have it both ways!

 

[DaPastor]

–Ignatius, Magnesians 10, A.D. 110

Yikes. Somehow, my NT doesn't include that book. I just got Paul still doing what God said to do, since God never said different but does say He doesn't change.

I'm sorry! They were supposed to include it after Acts 28 - Acts 29! It's not in yours!?

 

[CecilW]

I'm sorry! They were supposed to include it after Acts 28 - Acts 29! It's not in yours!?

LOL. Good one.

 

[Lionking]

Thank you Cecil for reminding me of the diversity of the believers that are on this forum, therefore I will refrain from trying to impose my views on anyone, though it was never my intention to do so, I merely would like to inform others of importance of the observance of the Sabbath according to scripture.

I have found that GOD is very specific when it comes to the issue of worship. Remember Cain & Able? Though Cain was sincere in his offering to GOD, GOD said that his offering was not accepted and told him that if he had done well he would have been accepted. Able on the other hand brought a lamb to sacrifice, "without the shedding of blood is no remission of sins." This offering was well accepted by GOD. the point that i'm trying to make is that, we can be sincere about our worship but sincerity does not equate to or guarantee acceptance; we can be sincerely wrong.

God bless.

 

[CecilW]

if one "demands" that the Sabbath is to be practiced, yet, doesn't demand that it be practied correctly, then it is inconsistent, ... Should there be grace allowed for growth and stumbling - sure! However, I believe that it is important to live out what we believe, more often than not!

Gotcha! I think.

Still, it isn't *I* or *we* or *they* who "demand" that the Sabbath is to be practiced, but God ... who has never rescinded the order.

If we do understand that it is the 7th day, and that it is God who ordained it, then it does seem to behoove us to practice it, however well or poorly we manage.

What your Ignatius seems to have been truly trying to say was NOT to disregard the day, nor transfer its observance to Sunday, but to practice it as Jesus did, rather than according to the extra-biblical traditions of the Rabbis.

When it comes, therefore, to actual practice, it would seem that if a person consents to the validity of the Sabbath, and acknowledges its binding nature upon us today, and lives it according to his best lights, then to his own Master he stands or falls, not to me. I won't sit in judgement on how another Man's servant is performing the task his Master gave him. The "case law", as I believe you called it elsewhere, is sometimes less clear and more open to individual interpretation today.

Where I personally cringe is at hearing someone acknowledge that it is valid, but teaching that it is non-binding. I hope that isn't what you meant you do in your first post. But if so, you, too, stand or fall to your Master, not to me.

 

[Mark C]

I heard an interesting teaching on this subject a week or so ago that seem apropos here. (Although I won't claim to have checked the numbers myself, and will say up front that the numbers are "best I recollect". )

It seems that there are evidently about 7 explicit commandments in the Torah and prophets (which our Savior referred to be saying were what "is Written") which concern the Sabbath and what should be done or not done. However, by the time Yeshua criticized the "hypocrisy" of the scribes and Pharisees for "adding" burdens and additional commandments of men to the presumed requirements, there were well over fifteen HUNDRED of them!


(Those added commandments, which were later written down to become the basis for the Babylonian Talmud, were also called the "oral torah", or "traditions of the elders" in other references. Some of them, in particular, were things that Scripture records He specifically BROKE in order to make His point -- from "rolling grain" in their hands, to spitting, "making mud", putting it in the blind man's eyes, and then instructing him to walk farther than the proscribed "Sabbath day's journey" after that healing.)

 

[Dairyfarmer]

One question. What I do for a living demands me to work 7 days a week. I have a semi here every day to pick up milk, so this means that I am working and selling on the sabbath. This occupation is not by my choosing, but by Gods. No one in my family is a farmer. So does this mean I am sinning?


Dairyfarmer

 

[CecilW]

What I do for a living demands me to work 7 days a week. I have a semi here every day to pick up milk, so this means that I am working and selling on the sabbath. ... So does this mean I am sinning?

Sure, and Jesus pointed out that the priests do their main work von the Sabbath, but aren't sinning.

So how does one tell, as regards their situation? I think that the answer is found inthe question, "COULD this work be done a different day?

In your case, the cows can't milk themselves, nor properly handle the proceeds. Neither could the cows, camels, sheep, or goats in the wilderness camp of the Israelites. The question then becomes, How do you invest the rest of your day? Do you catch up on the week's paperwork, wash the truck, do the weekly shopping and laundry, and take in a movie? Or do you spend it in Sabbath activities as much as possible? Rest, worship, family, enjoying nature, perhaps Bible study, etc.?

Traditionally, there are other occupations generally recognized as having to be available round the clock. Emergency room personnel -- someone who shows up in cardiac arrest can't be tossed in the fridge 'til after Sabbath. Floor nurses in a hospital -- you can't just tell the patients to have a great Sabbath, the pills are behind the nurse's counter, and we'll see you Sunday. Policemen -- You can't hit the pause button on a domestic dispute and leave them frozen motionless for 24 hours.

On the other side, Do I have to go to a job at a restaurant? No. The restaurant could close on Saturdays. A manufacturing plant could as well -- the Little Debbie snack cakes plants do. My mom and step-Dad own a marina on a remote lake in Alaska. Everyone knows they're closed for Sabbath. In a genuine emergency, they'll GIVE a couple or a few gallons, but not sell it. And don't figure its a way to get a few gallons for free each week.

My mom made up food ahead of time that either required no preparation, or noting more than perhaps setting it on the table, or slipping it in the oven and setting a timer before going to church. Dirty dishes? They waited til after Sabbath. A friend, new to Sabbath observance but wanting to be observant, got a big tub. Friday evening he'd fill it with soapy water. Dirty dishes all day Sabbath got put in the tub to soak, with washing done after Sabbath, yet the kitchen looking "red up".

I've got trucker friends who stop and get a motel room Friday evening, attend the closest church on sabbath, and hit the road again after sundown.

I'm sure you get the idea. In your case, if you were to sit across a table with Jesus and a root beer to talk it over, I'm sure he'd say something much like the above. Of course, he'd say it better. Probably point out that the Sabbath was made for your benefit, not as a painful burden. Same for your cows. And how would they enjoy not being milked for a day? Mooooo!

... best answer I can come up with, along with observing that you stand or fall to your Master, not to my opinions.

 

[welltan]

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col 2:14-16)

This verse is often quoted, and I think rightly so, that the weight of sabbath observance is different under Christ. Therefore, sabbath discussion is great, but care should be taken to not have any judgement of someone who observes differently, either way.

 

[DaPastor]

Hello Cecil,

Still, it isn't *I* or *we* or *they* who "demand" that the Sabbath is to be practiced, but God ... who has never rescinded the order.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I do not think it is quite that simple:

First of all, anyone who has read my posts knows that I believe that Christ did not come to destroy the Law. However, the application of the Law has certainly changed because of Christ. Furthermore, it should be recognized that Christ so fulfilled the Law that there are certain Laws that do not need to be practiced anymore (i.e. Blood Sacrifices). However, this principle does not only apply here, but it applies to other Laws. Now, I am the first to say that I do not have a full grasp of the inter-connectivity between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, but I do know from my research that there is a lot of confusion on the topic. For example, many people who teach that the Law is still applicable today will eat according to the dietary laws, yet, these same people ignore all the clothing Laws. Not only do we know the application of the Law has changed by the very death of Christ (no more animal sacrifices), we also know it because of how Apostle Paul applied the Law to the man who was sleeping with his father’s wife. The Law advocated the death penalty. Apostle Paul merely told them to excommunicate him. So, if we want to apply the Law properly, we must apply it with the same hermeneutics that the New Testament writers applied with in order to come up with a sound hermeneutic concerning how to apply the Law today.

With that said, I suggest that the Sabbath rest was 100% fulfilled in Christ, just as the blood sacrifices were indeed fulfilled. Therefore, today, I am convinced that the preponderance of Scriptural evidence supports that since He fulfilled the Sabbath for us, this Law is 100% followed each and every day we place our faith on the finished work of Christ.

Could I be wrong? Yes, I could be! Perhaps you have figured out how the entire Law interconnect under the New Covenant. I would be a very blessed man if you had a clear answer for me.

So, in summary – I believe that the entire Bible is to be followed. However, the applications of all the Laws need to be understood with some real depth. It is easy for us to say that the Laws were never rescinded! But, what does that really mean – especially in light of how some of them were applied in the New Testament!
It is clear that Christ became obedient, thus 100% fulfilling the Law. Some of this fulfilling was so complete that it obliterated the application for you and me. In other words, since Jesus fulfilled