"Torah" from a Christian point of view.

[andrew]

If some find torah-observance a way for them to understand the Law....

So you see the capital-L "Law" as something apart from Torah, and "torah-observance" as "a" way a person can come to "understand" the "Law"? What then do you mean by "Law"? And how do those of us who are not 'observing torah' come to "understand" it?

I'll come back to labels later. More interested in defining terms first.

 

[Cap]

So you see the capital-L "Law" as something apart from Torah, and "torah-observance" as "a" way a person can come to "understand" the "Law"? What then do you mean by "Law"? And how do those of us who are not 'observing torah' come to "understand" it?

I'll come back to labels later. More interested in defining terms first.

Law and law, Torah and torah, are all the same to me, its the whole Word of God. However I do understand that others differentiate the two, torah/law being the complete Word of God and Torah/Law as the first five books of the bible. And a 'torah-observant' person would be one that tries to fulfill the commandments established with those five books. Again just what I think, I am not one who observes torah specifically, but yet understands that the commandments have a purpose in our lives, but my focus is more on the spiritual side. Most torah-observant people try and uphold the Laws stated in the five books, however there are other Laws that don't seem to get the same generated interest. For instance, Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.", this is a New Covenant direct command, but no one really spends any energy trying to figure out how to do this. Which is odd to me, because there is whole religion based on observing the old covenant commands but few pay attention to the ones in the new.

Law to me is the Word of God, everything that helps me understand the way God wants me to live, even including the commandments or direction I receive from the Holy Spirit on a daily bases. Being a lawyer, I know you understand the law is important to understand the case it is being applied to and to determine guilt.

"And how do those of us who are not 'observing torah' come to "understand" it?"

Here is an example of how I see it. Many years ago the idea of tithe was brought up to me, I wrestled with it. Tried some times to honor it but always would fall back to taking care of myself when the bills needed to be paid I didn't have the faith. Overtime I learned to live with in the command to tithe. And from that I learned about blessings to come from faith in trusting God to provide. I don't tithe directly now, I understand the principle and no longer fear being without monetary resources, God has always, and always will provide for me. I don't live in fear in this regard, I learned the principle of tithing. I see a person in need, or a cause that needs met, I just give based on the direction I am told by the Holy Spirit until I don't sense the need to do it anymore. There is no legalistic requirement, its just flowing and I am at peace about it all.

Sabbath is another. I understand the Law of Sabbath for me. It is resting in the work of God, not my works. It is an object lesson. Same as tithe, can I stop working one day to see what God can do, do I have the faith. The seven year land sabbath would be an even higher lesson of faith if I had a farm, but it still has application to teach faith on other levels. I don't worry about whether I am suppose to light a match or build a fire on a particular day, I don't think that is what it is about. I think it is about trusting God will provide.

And it's clear in my mind that the reason we are to understand the Law is so that we can understand the Love that is being given to us in the salvation work of the Son of God. Resting in that work is the demonstration of our faith, and not the faith in our own works that only really shows we are trying to save ourselves.

 

[Cap]

And to be really clear, when I emphasis a certain lack of focus on a particular ritual that I find meaning other places, doesn't at all mean that someone else may find more value focusing on that particular aspect of a Godly ritual.

For instance, the selection and killing of a lamb, or other animal, to be considered a Passover meal. To a family that has a farm or lives and operates in a rural setting might very well receive tremendous blessing and understanding more than I could ever understand in that place. Raising an animal, then selecting it to be killed and then eating it for a Passover meal, has huge implications spiritually that I would never be able to truly understand. So doing it based on the prescribed biblical method would only bring one closer to God in their world. And there is more to this in other places to besides Passover.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

This assumes that the promises to Israel at Sinai failed since all have not been fulfilled. Otherwise, we are that same people. The apostles, particularly Paul, believed we are. AntiSemitic Christianity has chafed against the idea and related prophecies for millennia, but Abba is still here leading His people back into the bond of the covenant.

My point was geared more to before and after Sinai, not before and after the covenant.

As to the fulfilled part, a simple word search on fulfilled in the New Testament is definitely worthwhile. I found it interesting how many times the phrase, “That it might be fulfilled” was used in the Gospels to tell the story of Christ.

John !9:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Luke 24:44. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

The Mosaic Covenant was all about the Messiah coming and reconciliation with God. It seems like a pretty dangerous rabbit hole to say that an omniscient Messiah missed a few things. Especially when at a minimum, the Holy Spirit inspired authors of the Gospels state that with his death, all things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and in the Psalms concerning him were fulfilled.

 

[rockfox]

For instance, the selection and killing of a lamb, or other animal, to be considered a Passover meal. To a family that has a farm or lives and operates in a rural setting might very well receive tremendous blessing and understanding more than I could ever understand in that place. Raising an animal, then selecting it to be killed and then eating it for a Passover meal, has huge implications spiritually that I would never be able to truly understand.

Not so much, we do that all the time. Now for someone who's never had to take a life to provide their own sustenance, or only has to do so this one time a year, that's the person I'd think would be impacted more by the meaning of it.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Not so much, we do that all the time. Now for someone who's never had to take a life to provide their own sustenance, or only has to do so this one time a year, that's the person I'd think would be impacted more by the meaning of it.

I think some aspects might have more significance to the sheep keepers then a family just getting one lamb a year for passover. There is a big difference for me in an animal that was marked as meat from birth versus one that may have been wanted for breeding. Usually you want rams out of your best stock, and might value them differently. This year I finally got a ram out of one of my favorite ewes (she had a single ewe twice then triplet ewes) and a neighbor's dog killed him. Out of 60+ sheep, and over 30 lambs the dog got that one. I'm not sure if God was preparing me or warning me, but after the dog chewed on a couple big ewes we thought they would be responsible and keep the beast up. I knew....and I mean I KNEW that if the dog killed one it would be that one. Not one of his two sisters, but the ONE I had waited years for, wanted for breeding, and could not replace as his sire is dead. (Kid with a heavy foot killed two breeding rams on the road)
When you see something really nice and want to see more of it in the flock, slaughtering it is not what you want to do.
When you don't keep sheep, one is the same as the next.

Only begotten and loved, perfect and obedient. This was a keeper, not a cull. (To put it in stock keepers terms)

 

[rockfox]

I think some aspects might have more significance to the sheep keepers then a family just getting one lamb a year for passover

Yes, there is more emotional impact when they are animals you raised with blood, sweat and tears than with something you simply purchased to slaughter yourself.