What's love got to do with it?

[Mojo]

In various discussions on marriage with a pastor friend, We talked about who is eligible to be married, or what he requires of prospective marriage partners in his church. He started off the list with "if two people love each other"...

Really?

What's your all's take?

 

[aineo]

My former pastor started the discussion with, "Tell me about your relationship with Jesus." Yes, there is a whole other discussion that needs to happen about eligibility to be married, but I think the potential partners have to be on the same page on this question before any others can be asked.

 

[The Revolting Man]

My question is where in scripture does the church have any role in marriage? Or the state either for that matter?

 

[Mojo]

My question is where in scripture does the church have any role in marriage? Or the state either for that matter?

Scripturally, there isn't one.

I guess I used "required" in the wrong way. I didn't mean require to "officiate" a wedding. I was asking in light of homosexual marriages, because they use the "we love each other" argument to legitimize it. I was setting him up (not in a devious manner) to think about what marriage truly is...covenental.

My point being that love isn't a requirement for a covenant, just commitment. Love (agape) would come after, if living Godly lives.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I see. We got into a rather long and intense debate about love on the forum not all that long ago and didn't come to any conclusions or at least not any consensus. It was a fun debate though.

The eligibility debate is another one we get into from time to time and that one can get heated. Everyone pretty much agrees any man can get married unless he has unlawfully divorced a wife can. Everyone agrees a virgin can get married if her father consents. There is some disagreement about what it means if he doesn't consent and how far out he can object but that all gets a little thick.

When a non virgin woman may marry can also get people spun up. Most everyone will admit that if a man divorces a woman then she is eligible to remarry. Some people want to find instances when a woman who leaves her husband can remarry but others of us have a hard time seeing that.

Always of course, Christians must marry Christians. You will find all of this with much scripture by searching remarriage or remarry.

 

[Mojo]

I see. We got into a rather long and intense debate about love on the forum not all that long ago and didn't come to any conclusions or at least not any consensus. It was a fun debate though.

The eligibility debate is another one we get into from time to time and that one can get heated. Everyone pretty much agrees any man can get married unless he has unlawfully divorced a wife can. Everyone agrees a virgin can get married if her father consents. There is some disagreement about what it means if he doesn't consent and how far out he can object but that all gets a little thick.

When a non virgin woman may marry can also get people spun up. Most everyone will admit that if a man divorces a woman then she is eligible to remarry. Some people want to find instances when a woman who leaves her husband can remarry but others of us have a hard time seeing that.

Always of course, Christians must marry Christians. You will find all of this with much scripture by searching remarriage or remarry.

Didn't want to open up the "covenant" or "sex" is marriage debate. I stand firmly in the covenant camp, but
if you want to include sex as marriage, then the question still stands..."what's love got to do with it?"

Maybe I'm just on a negative rant right now because of all the Christmas love story movies on the tube, but ughhhh!

There's a famous adage that a woman decides to marry a man because she loves who he is, then learns to be attracted to his looks. A man decides to marry based on looks, then learns to love the woman for who she is. There's a lot of truth to this.

But biblically, show me where love enters into it at the outset. Does God require love for the beginning of a marriage? Should we? Should we teach it? Should we expect it?

If you look closely at Pauls admonition, he doesn't use Eros, storge, or fileo to encourage men in their marriages. He uses agape and promotes servanthood. Warm fuzzies and pink hearts (our definition of love) aren't required there either. Treat each other with respect +serve each other's needs=recipe for marriage success.

 

[aineo]

But biblically, show me where love enters into it at the outset. Does God require love for the beginning of a marriage? Should we? Should we teach it? Should we expect it?

I cannot think of a place where God requires love for the beginning of a marriage. One could easily make the point that even the first marriage was arranged.

Now that makes me think - I will likely ask the next person that tells me, "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam, Eve, and Michelle." if they are in favor of arranged marriages. After all, that is the example set from the beginning.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I don't believe women are ever required to love their husbands. Men are to begin loving with the sex right? Or whenever you decide a marriage starts.

 

[aineo]

While it isn't a command, we are told in Titus 2:3-4 that the older women are to encourage the young women to love their husbands. There are several more examples of husbands being instructed to love their wives.

@ZecAustin, I'd disagree with you though. The start of a marriage does not equal a man loving a woman. While it isn't solid proof, Leah didn't feel Jacob loved her and had hoped he would with the birth of Reuben.

 

[Mojo]

I don't believe women are ever required to love their husbands. Men are to begin loving with the sex right? Or whenever you decide a marriage starts.

I am speaking mainly at initiation of a marriage (whether you view that as intercourse or covenant). The OT gives no commands either before or after a marriage and the NT only encourages it AFTER marriage ( husbands agape your wife as Christ agape the Church).

In OT, most of those marriages would have been arranged, so the expectation of romantic love would not even come into the picture until AFTER the joining of the two.

If you prefer to reference the NT, the only love that is mentioned is "charity" or "agape"... even for married couples! So, what's romantic love got to do with it? It's a cultural expectation, not a biblical one that I can tell.

I don't deny the existence of "romantic" love (see SOS) but its necessity anywhere in a marriage, but specifically for the inception, is lacking in pure scriptural terms.

 

[FollowingHim]

Love is not required at all. Commitment is. In a marriage built on commitment, love will grow. In a marriage built on love, commitment may be fickle and disappear when the couple "falls out of love", whatever they personally take that to mean.

I think I've shared this before, but it can't be shared too often:

Why an arranged marriage 'is more likely to develop into lasting love'
They are seen by many as business deals that have little to do with love. But arranged marriages are far more likely to lead to lasting affection than marriages of passion, experts claim.

According to research, those in arranged marriages – or who have had their partner chosen for them by a parent or matchmaker – tend to feel more in love as time grows, whereas those in regular marriages feel less in love over time.

And within ten years, the connection felt by those in arranged marriages is said to be around twice as strong.

Relationship experts claim this is because arranged matches are carefully considered, with thought going into whether potential partners’ families, interests and life goals are compatible. This means they are more likely to commit for life – and to stick together through rocky patches.

Those who marry for love, on the other hand, tend to be blinded by passion and so overlook these crucial details. When the going gets tough, they are more likely to view the situation simply as a natural end to their romantic dream – a way of fate telling them something is wrong with the relationship.

Click here for the full article.

 

[FollowingHim]

The Edge radio station in New Zealand has had a very long-running and practical experiment with arranged marriage. Every four years or so they arrange a blind marriage, carefully selecting two people based on a very wide range of considerations, and the first time they meet is on their wedding day. The first time was in 1999 - and they're still together and have several children. In fact, every single couple they have married is still together. Their success rate is incredible.
Strangers and a Wedding: Still going strong 16 years on.

 

[mystic]

One commenter on that "Strangers and a Wedding" article notes that, "There's an old saying that goes 'first comes marriage then comes love' and when the arrangement is by people who know and care about you, this saying seems to be mostly true."

This brought to my mind the familiar schoolyard rhyme — which, in its reversal of the saying, I now see holds a dose of monogamist thought:

[Names of boy and girl] sitting in a tree
K–I–S–S–I–N–G.
First comes love,
Then comes marriage,
Then comes the baby in the baby carriage.

 

[steve]

For most of society, love is idolized. It becomes their focus. It becomes a requirement.

Turning some of the questions around, people justify unBiblical things when they do not feel that they are receiving enough love..

 

[Mojo]

For most of society, love is idolized. It becomes their focus. It becomes a requirement.

Turning some of the questions around, people justify unBiblical things when they do not feel that they are receiving enough love..

Or....they justify unbiblical things in the name of LOVE.

 

[Mojo]

Love is not required at all. Commitment is. In a marriage built on commitment, love will grow. In a marriage built on love, commitment may be fickle and disappear when the couple "falls out of love", whatever they personally take that to mean.

I think I've shared this before, but it can't be shared too often:

Click here for the full article.

Thanks for the article. Seems like love is deaf, dumb, and blind.