-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
Who is our brother?
- Thread starter pebble
- Start date
<-- Brother Bryan (◠‿◠)
Pebble:
Our fight is not against flesh & blood, but against demons & other powers of darkness.
So I suggest that, in the sense Jesus meant, any and everyone human (male or female) is our "brother".
"But," you may well say, "some of them act more like enemies than family!"
True. Jesus said to love them too, and gave special, sometimes really darn hard to follow, instructions to BLESS them. *shrug* Whether they know or like it or not, they're family, too.
Keeps it interesting!
Our fight is not against flesh & blood, but against demons & other powers of darkness.
So I suggest that, in the sense Jesus meant, any and everyone human (male or female) is our "brother".
"But," you may well say, "some of them act more like enemies than family!"
True. Jesus said to love them too, and gave special, sometimes really darn hard to follow, instructions to BLESS them. *shrug* Whether they know or like it or not, they're family, too.
Keeps it interesting!
pebble
Member
What matters to me the most is following His guidelines.
If He says for me to love my brother, then I'll try real hard to follow that.
But who is my brother?
This is only for illustration purposes. I hub nub daily with brother Muslims (yes, I call them my brothers). If I love them as Muslims, then I have to accept them as Muslims, respect their faith. Yet our beliefs are nearly opposite (except for polygyny). Loving them is supporting them and if I support them, is there any incentive for them to get to God's good side?
At that other post, atheists in heaven, FollowingHim stated that God destined some for heaven and some for hell. Another way to look at it is we were all destined for hell but God doesn't really want that so he gave us a way out. There are people who just seems to harden their heart to God. Or God hardens their their heart to serve His purpose.
So the people who hardens their heart or have their hearts hardened, are they our brothers? And this is not only about Muslims, there are also groups who call themselves Christians that are like these.
I hope I'm making sense.
And then there's also this article which I came across... http://www.be-ready.org/strangers.html
Basically, it says there that, as humans, we have finite resources and we should focus our efforts on our brothers, Christians.
Although I know Jesus went to the sinners 'cause He doesn't need to save the saved already.
And don't worry JAG, I'm not going to start a Jihad or something. First thing my karate instructor told me back when I was a kid was that the first option is always to avoid fighting. Use of violence is only the laaaaaaaaaaaaast option, and in defence only.
@CecilW
Sir, what if demons and other powers of darkness exists in or controls the heart of a man? Is he still our brother?
I'm not being pig-headed, I just want this cleared up in my heart.
Thanks.
If He says for me to love my brother, then I'll try real hard to follow that.
But who is my brother?
This is only for illustration purposes. I hub nub daily with brother Muslims (yes, I call them my brothers). If I love them as Muslims, then I have to accept them as Muslims, respect their faith. Yet our beliefs are nearly opposite (except for polygyny). Loving them is supporting them and if I support them, is there any incentive for them to get to God's good side?
At that other post, atheists in heaven, FollowingHim stated that God destined some for heaven and some for hell. Another way to look at it is we were all destined for hell but God doesn't really want that so he gave us a way out. There are people who just seems to harden their heart to God. Or God hardens their their heart to serve His purpose.
So the people who hardens their heart or have their hearts hardened, are they our brothers? And this is not only about Muslims, there are also groups who call themselves Christians that are like these.
I hope I'm making sense.
And then there's also this article which I came across... http://www.be-ready.org/strangers.html
Basically, it says there that, as humans, we have finite resources and we should focus our efforts on our brothers, Christians.
Although I know Jesus went to the sinners 'cause He doesn't need to save the saved already.
And don't worry JAG, I'm not going to start a Jihad or something. First thing my karate instructor told me back when I was a kid was that the first option is always to avoid fighting. Use of violence is only the laaaaaaaaaaaaast option, and in defence only.
@CecilW
Sir, what if demons and other powers of darkness exists in or controls the heart of a man? Is he still our brother?
I'm not being pig-headed, I just want this cleared up in my heart.
Thanks.
Mathew 5:44
If it is a question of who we are to love, the answer is everyone. Including our enemies. A brother, however, is one of the same family, the same Father, another who resides in the house of the Lord.
If it is a question of who we are to love, the answer is everyone. Including our enemies. A brother, however, is one of the same family, the same Father, another who resides in the house of the Lord.
I love your questions, Pebble, and yes, you are making sense.
And for the record, while I am both serious, and yet clearly operating in the realm of opinion on the subject of atheists, I believe I'm staying strictly Biblical with these questions, tho not taking time to quote Scripture's chapter & verse.
(Me? I DO have LOTS of both family and friends with whose actions, choices, and beliefs I sometimes disagree and definitely do NOT respect.)
Does your or my agreement or disagreement, respect or disrespect in ANY way alter the relationship? My Mom remains my Mom despite ... and I could go on and on. Right?
So, if our fight is NOT with flesh and blood, and all of humankind is of one blood (there IS scripture for that!), then we're all family. Brothers. Some heading for heaven, others for hell. But all family. Jesus died for the sins of us ALL, whether all receive Him or not.
The difficulty here, Pebble, appears to be a couple of leaps of logic that don't seem to work out too well.
Jesus told us to go into all the world and make disciples, right? (End of Matthew and Mark.) His example is that He came to love and meet us where we were (sinners), but not to leave us there -- to SAVE us.
So, when it comes to Muslims, we must respect them as humans. Love & care for them as family. Believe that they are sincere seekers after God. Yes. But we do NOT have to respect the path that they are on as valid or leading them towards God. We've been given the express order to introduce them to Jesus and even go beyond that by making them disciples! (That's a bit more extreme than merely "being saved".)
So do I support them? After a fashion. If I'm buying mangoes at the market, am I going to inquire if the vendor is Muslim or Christian? Of course not. And by doing business together, I support them in one way. In another, as we talk together, I support EVERY attempt, or even desire of their heart, to do right, while trying to alter every intent to do wrong.
But that is ACTUAL right. If they confide in me that they are considering doing the right thing and pleasing God by going on jihad and planting a bomb in the local airport, I'm going to support them to do what is right by doing my very best to persuade them that bomb-planting is a WRONG course of action. And if they refuse to listen and head for the airport with their bomb strapped on, I will ever so sorrowfully do my best to introduce them to God well before they get there (shoot 'em, most likely), thus doing the right thing by saving the lives of countless other of my brothers & sisters.
But he will still have been my brother, and God, who isn't willing that ANY should perish, will mourn his loss. So will I. Less than I would, however, the loss of 350 if he had succeeded.
Extreme, I know. But it will hopefully make the point and draw the distinction. Here's another example:
Say that as a Muslim, he believes it to be both his right and his duty to periodically beat his wives? Yet, over lumpia at the local diner, he tells me of the cold hostility in his home, and wishes for a better family life. I can 100% support that! We can discuss how a gentle lashing with rose petals (use your imagination! :lol: ) is likely to be much more effective than a fierce one with a bamboo cane.
Yes, I could go all Scriptural on him and quote the Bible, "Husbands LOVE your wives, even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her." But he's probably not ready for that. Yet, if he sees and responds to the drawing power of Love to improve his home life, I have both respected & supported HIM without in the least respecting and supporting the PATH he was on.
And, if God is Love, can we doubt that in some way, he has just responded to God, out of a desire to do right? And thus has made a right and therefore righteous choice?
:shock: :roll: Cool, huh?
Having said that, we have ALL sinned, and thus all DESERVE hell. It is to make a way out for ALL, while knowing that all would not accept it, that Jesus came, and shed His Blood.
Not, however, for demons, etc. And He did it WHILE we were at enmity with God. Our being at enmity and war with Himself, on the wrong side, didn't in the least alter our relationship - that of being His. So He went to work to change our destiny. Just as our brother might be an enemy, and yet our brother, and thus the instruction, "If thy enemy is hungry, give him bread." Maybe we can turn our enemy/brother into our friend/brother.
And yes, that would even apply to some Christians. Even within the same denomination! :shock: In my own family, I believe that we must let the Bible change OUR beliefs and actions. Most of my family seem to hold to a belief that I truly do not understand: That it is ok to hold onto their existing belief despite seeing that it is contrary to the teachings of Scripture. It is very specifically why my first wife left me. Guess we were unevenly yoked!
Hope this helps.
And for the record, while I am both serious, and yet clearly operating in the realm of opinion on the subject of atheists, I believe I'm staying strictly Biblical with these questions, tho not taking time to quote Scripture's chapter & verse.
Let's think about this a bit. Do you have any actual siblings, Pebble? Children? Parents living? Family of any sort in the natural world? If so, do you agree with all of their choices? Courses of action? Beliefs? Do you even respect all of those?pebble said:
(Me? I DO have LOTS of both family and friends with whose actions, choices, and beliefs I sometimes disagree and definitely do NOT respect.)
Does your or my agreement or disagreement, respect or disrespect in ANY way alter the relationship? My Mom remains my Mom despite ... and I could go on and on. Right?
So, if our fight is NOT with flesh and blood, and all of humankind is of one blood (there IS scripture for that!), then we're all family. Brothers. Some heading for heaven, others for hell. But all family. Jesus died for the sins of us ALL, whether all receive Him or not.
The difficulty here, Pebble, appears to be a couple of leaps of logic that don't seem to work out too well.
Jesus told us to go into all the world and make disciples, right? (End of Matthew and Mark.) His example is that He came to love and meet us where we were (sinners), but not to leave us there -- to SAVE us.
So, when it comes to Muslims, we must respect them as humans. Love & care for them as family. Believe that they are sincere seekers after God. Yes. But we do NOT have to respect the path that they are on as valid or leading them towards God. We've been given the express order to introduce them to Jesus and even go beyond that by making them disciples! (That's a bit more extreme than merely "being saved".)
So do I support them? After a fashion. If I'm buying mangoes at the market, am I going to inquire if the vendor is Muslim or Christian? Of course not. And by doing business together, I support them in one way. In another, as we talk together, I support EVERY attempt, or even desire of their heart, to do right, while trying to alter every intent to do wrong.
But that is ACTUAL right. If they confide in me that they are considering doing the right thing and pleasing God by going on jihad and planting a bomb in the local airport, I'm going to support them to do what is right by doing my very best to persuade them that bomb-planting is a WRONG course of action. And if they refuse to listen and head for the airport with their bomb strapped on, I will ever so sorrowfully do my best to introduce them to God well before they get there (shoot 'em, most likely), thus doing the right thing by saving the lives of countless other of my brothers & sisters.
But he will still have been my brother, and God, who isn't willing that ANY should perish, will mourn his loss. So will I. Less than I would, however, the loss of 350 if he had succeeded.
Extreme, I know. But it will hopefully make the point and draw the distinction. Here's another example:
Say that as a Muslim, he believes it to be both his right and his duty to periodically beat his wives? Yet, over lumpia at the local diner, he tells me of the cold hostility in his home, and wishes for a better family life. I can 100% support that! We can discuss how a gentle lashing with rose petals (use your imagination! :lol: ) is likely to be much more effective than a fierce one with a bamboo cane.
Yes, I could go all Scriptural on him and quote the Bible, "Husbands LOVE your wives, even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her." But he's probably not ready for that. Yet, if he sees and responds to the drawing power of Love to improve his home life, I have both respected & supported HIM without in the least respecting and supporting the PATH he was on.
And, if God is Love, can we doubt that in some way, he has just responded to God, out of a desire to do right? And thus has made a right and therefore righteous choice?
:shock: :roll: Cool, huh?That is one of those areas where there is disagreement among Christians. (And we respect & support each other despite, sometimes, fierce disagreement.) What *I* see in Scripture is that we were ALL created by God with the intention that we would be part of His kingdom, do good works, come to know Him as He knows us, etc. But that He also knew, since He is not bound by time, which of us would reject the Right and have to be let go into hell. I don't find the idea that Hell needs residents, too, so God/Love created some for bliss & some for torment to even things out. Doesn't sound very loving to me.
Having said that, we have ALL sinned, and thus all DESERVE hell. It is to make a way out for ALL, while knowing that all would not accept it, that Jesus came, and shed His Blood.
Not, however, for demons, etc. And He did it WHILE we were at enmity with God. Our being at enmity and war with Himself, on the wrong side, didn't in the least alter our relationship - that of being His. So He went to work to change our destiny. Just as our brother might be an enemy, and yet our brother, and thus the instruction, "If thy enemy is hungry, give him bread." Maybe we can turn our enemy/brother into our friend/brother.
Fair nuff. Might I suggest that in that last case, He does so ONLY with people who have made a definite decision as to their SIDE (Heaven's or Hell's), so harder or softer makes no difference to their destiny, but only to the working out of His plans in the lives of others?
Yes, in the sense discussed above. No, in the sense that they may not be traveling a path towards God. This has more to do with whether they are suitable companions for "yoking" than whether they are family. If I have a brother who engages in shady business practices, I won't start a business with him, right? Family or not. It would create a divided house. Unequal yoking. For the same reason, I would not create a business with a Muslim partner, tho I might DO business with one, depending on the level of business. Wouldn't MARRY one -- we're very specifically instructed not to enter into unequal yokings in marriage.
And yes, that would even apply to some Christians. Even within the same denomination! :shock: In my own family, I believe that we must let the Bible change OUR beliefs and actions. Most of my family seem to hold to a belief that I truly do not understand: That it is ok to hold onto their existing belief despite seeing that it is contrary to the teachings of Scripture. It is very specifically why my first wife left me. Guess we were unevenly yoked!
Anyone can post a logical sounding article. But you seem to have seen the fault in the logic right off. Jesus is our example. His example is that of LEAVING the 99 in the fold to go search for the 1 that was lost!
He is. The demon isn't. Jesus did nothing to accept or support the demon. He simply ordered it out in situations where the host human wanted freedom, and then supported, healed, & helped the human. If the host human did NOT want freedom, He identified their spirit, and called them out over it. Lovingly. Sometimes with tears, sometimes with anger & a whip! Maybe tears then, too! (Opinion. I wasn't there, despite my long white beard! :lol: ) If the host human was unaware and/or undecided, He fed them (bread & fish), and taught. Seems like that is our example.
Hope this helps.
Taller on my knees
Member
Why do we not have a "Like" button on this page? Great answer Cecil and some very good questions Pebble. Just on a side note; if a pebble irritates enough, it eventually becomes a pearl.
pebble
Member
@taller on my knees
Ahhh, a pebble doesn't become a pearl, sir, it only gets covered with an iridescent substance. Maybe like me becoming a mature Christian through God's mercy and grace, covering me with His truth? I sure hope it's not because He finds me irritating and establishes a layer of protection between us.
BTW, can a "like" button be vain? Just wondering.
@CecilW
Very enlightening sir. I do have a mother and a sister. Most stubborn women I ever knew. Both call themselves Christians and I'm praying for them to get to prioritize personal relationships with God as time is running low. But that's another story.
Thanks for the time and effort.
Ahhh, a pebble doesn't become a pearl, sir, it only gets covered with an iridescent substance. Maybe like me becoming a mature Christian through God's mercy and grace, covering me with His truth? I sure hope it's not because He finds me irritating and establishes a layer of protection between us.
BTW, can a "like" button be vain? Just wondering.
@CecilW
Very enlightening sir. I do have a mother and a sister. Most stubborn women I ever knew. Both call themselves Christians and I'm praying for them to get to prioritize personal relationships with God as time is running low. But that's another story.
Thanks for the time and effort.
golden2seal
New Member
pebble, I think You have a good question, "Who is our Brother?" You quote Paul, from the New Testiment. Paul plainly tells You not to use His writtings as teachings, since those writings are just letters to His friends. The answer to Your Question, depends on Your definition of who You consider Yourself to be. You should consider Your brother as one of Your Peers.
In the Scriptures the Creator explains who Your Brother is, if You are one of His, the one who keeps all 759 statutes, ordinances, and judgments, as required by His word. Just that simple.
The same definition applies to Love for the Creator, You keep His Statutes, Ordinances, and Judgments. He only Loves the ones that keep His Statutes, Ordinances, and Judgements. If You've read the Scriptures, You can find lots of times, He just threw a fit and Killed thousands of people at one time. I dissagree that He just loves everybody, the Scriptures say quite the opposit. You can define Your Brother as anyone joined with You in any organization.
Me,
In the Scriptures the Creator explains who Your Brother is, if You are one of His, the one who keeps all 759 statutes, ordinances, and judgments, as required by His word. Just that simple.
The same definition applies to Love for the Creator, You keep His Statutes, Ordinances, and Judgments. He only Loves the ones that keep His Statutes, Ordinances, and Judgements. If You've read the Scriptures, You can find lots of times, He just threw a fit and Killed thousands of people at one time. I dissagree that He just loves everybody, the Scriptures say quite the opposit. You can define Your Brother as anyone joined with You in any organization.
Me,
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Hbr 12:7-8 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
1Jo 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
we are all brothers in that we have all descended from adam.
however, some of us are sons of YHWH and others are bastards. if you reject Him as your Father you are a bastard. the sons would be much more my brothers than the bastards would be.
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Hbr 12:7-8 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
1Jo 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
we are all brothers in that we have all descended from adam.
however, some of us are sons of YHWH and others are bastards. if you reject Him as your Father you are a bastard. the sons would be much more my brothers than the bastards would be.