Well said! Even a tired frazzled mom could follow that.
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Attending Church as biblical family believers
- Thread starter Soldier4Jesus
- Start date
I think it is really important for those of us who are not plural families yet to be in a local fellowship even if we don’t agree with everything being taught. (we should be in agreement with most of the doctrine aside from that concerning marriage)
Here’s why. We need to be the ones to stand up for the plural families when they come into these fellowships. We need to lend them our credibility, to normalize them to a degree, in the eyes of other Christians. We need to work as a team in this. To non-poly people a man with two wives has no credibility, but if several mono families in the fellowship are in support of the plural families that come in, it could make a real difference.
Here’s why. We need to be the ones to stand up for the plural families when they come into these fellowships. We need to lend them our credibility, to normalize them to a degree, in the eyes of other Christians. We need to work as a team in this. To non-poly people a man with two wives has no credibility, but if several mono families in the fellowship are in support of the plural families that come in, it could make a real difference.
Now that my eyes have been opened, and my posterior has been the recipient of the infamous left foot, I realize that this is exactly why pastors keep this as hush hush as they possibly can. It’s also why the poly family you are talking about will be quietly shown the side door with instructions never to return before anybody knows their situation if it’s within the pastors powers.
If you wanna make your church poly friendly, start the conversation before they show up. Do the hard work as a mono so that they can actually enjoy the visit. Don’t be surprised if your acceptance of poly places you as the recipient of the infamous left foot.
I actually believe the "left foot" boots people in the "right" direction.
In many cases, YES!I actually believe the "left foot" boots people in the "right" direction.
I actually believe the "left foot" boots people in the "right" direction.
I now think of it as a graduation. I’m really not sure how I passed and everybody else got held back
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In my understanding, the phrase originated back when the bath water was heated on the stove and poured into a tub.
Father bathed first, then mom, followed by the children descending in age and the baby was last.
The joke was that the water was so dirty by then that the baby could go missing in the tub and it could get thrown out.
So the analogy is to save what is good and not just throw everything out. No organization is 100% wrong, even though some seem to try pretty hard.
We attend a mainstream Calvary Chapel. A lot of our friends from home schooling go to it. I do not really engage 100% because I expect to get kicked out at some point as I feel obligated to be "out" about Biblical truths. Youth minister knows that I am pro-polygamy and does not seem to have an issue with it. So far so good. Time will tell.
Those of you who are laying low might try experimenting with being more vocal. Ask questions, don't try to straighten everybody out. What do you think about this? Why do you think that? Etc.
As VV76 pointed out, the groundwork needs to be laid before that plural family shows up. Part of what you have to work through is the sheer shock that someone known and trusted (that's you...) has suddenly lost their mind and may be in the process of losing their salvation and joining a cult. Get that stuff on the table and work through it before that hypothetical family you're waiting for shows up, so when the time comes you can say "see, this is what I was talking about". Otherwise you'll just get booted with them when you stick up for them, and if your fellow churchgoers won't hear you out and 'reason together' now, they're damn sure not going to do it when the you-know-what hits the you-know-where.
As VV76 pointed out, the groundwork needs to be laid before that plural family shows up. Part of what you have to work through is the sheer shock that someone known and trusted (that's you...) has suddenly lost their mind and may be in the process of losing their salvation and joining a cult. Get that stuff on the table and work through it before that hypothetical family you're waiting for shows up, so when the time comes you can say "see, this is what I was talking about". Otherwise you'll just get booted with them when you stick up for them, and if your fellow churchgoers won't hear you out and 'reason together' now, they're damn sure not going to do it when the you-know-what hits the you-know-where.
Nice idea, but I'm not sure how the end would be any different. I'd think untoward questions would eventually lead to the same end.
Spoiler alert!
It probably won't be different, but most people (especially men bull-headed (uh, I meant, "courageous") enough to do this) have to learn a lot of stuff on their own. I'm trying to disrupt that cycle by presenting a case study that people can look at and draw their own conclusions from and think it was their idea. But now that you've outed me....
My point is this: Whatever you're waiting for, stop waiting. You are going to be of no help whatsoever to the persecuted poly family when they show up, if they show up (and frankly, that's a pretty low probability event), if you're not already on record with your beliefs and haven't at least gotten in advance some begrudging recognition that "it's not a sin" that can be used against church leadership later.
(I hope everybody understands what I mean by "used against" them. I take no pleasure in confronting religious gatekeepers with their hypocrisies, but when you're defending yourself against false accusations....)
And then it's probably still going to end badly, with everybody who doesn't fit in getting kicked out. So what are you really waiting for?...
If you're going to stand up for the truth at some point, why not start today?
(Note: That is not a rhetorical question meant to goad anyone into starting today because that's my agenda for your life. It's an honest question meant to ask you to ask yourself what it is you're really waiting for and why (given that "being prepared to defend a hypothetical poly family in case one hypothetically shows up" is sort of iffy). As always, do whatever you believe God wants you to do.)
It probably won't be different, but most people (especially men bull-headed (uh, I meant, "courageous") enough to do this) have to learn a lot of stuff on their own. I'm trying to disrupt that cycle by presenting a case study that people can look at and draw their own conclusions from and think it was their idea. But now that you've outed me....
My point is this: Whatever you're waiting for, stop waiting. You are going to be of no help whatsoever to the persecuted poly family when they show up, if they show up (and frankly, that's a pretty low probability event), if you're not already on record with your beliefs and haven't at least gotten in advance some begrudging recognition that "it's not a sin" that can be used against church leadership later.
(I hope everybody understands what I mean by "used against" them. I take no pleasure in confronting religious gatekeepers with their hypocrisies, but when you're defending yourself against false accusations....)
And then it's probably still going to end badly, with everybody who doesn't fit in getting kicked out. So what are you really waiting for?...
If you're going to stand up for the truth at some point, why not start today?
(Note: That is not a rhetorical question meant to goad anyone into starting today because that's my agenda for your life. It's an honest question meant to ask you to ask yourself what it is you're really waiting for and why (given that "being prepared to defend a hypothetical poly family in case one hypothetically shows up" is sort of iffy). As always, do whatever you believe God wants you to do.)
Actually, processing the hypothetical is considerably less threatening than being faced with the reality...
Softening the beachhead was never intended to end well for the mortar shell that YHWH wants to drop on an assembly. Although Andrew is describing more of a preemptive slow release explosion.
The cool thing is that we can pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and be reusable. You’ll only be mostly dead.
Or limp off into a corner and suck our thumbs.
The cool thing is that we can pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and be reusable. You’ll only be mostly dead.
Or limp off into a corner and suck our thumbs.
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Even if it all explodes, you'll at least plant some seeds that might bear fruition later.
I think I'm just having a hard time envisioning how this would play out. I guess I'd need to hear examples of what kind of questions are asked and how that plays out in real life.
Or Graduate!
The word "grenade" is actually French for "pomegranate" ("grainy apple"); think of that the next time you're throwing "truth grenades"....
"Hey, pastor/SSteacher/buddy, have you ever wondered about why it was okay for a man to have more than one wife back in the day, but isn't okay now?" "[insert stock SS answer here"] "Yeah, I know, that's what I was taught, too, but lately it occurred to me to start going over some verses and I'm wondering if the church made a wrong turn somewhere." Etc, etc. You can have that convo with anyone, anytime.
If any of y'all see yourselves actually being plural at some point in your lives, you should just pull the warrior move and reckon yourselves now as "already dead". Then you don't have to worry anymore about loss, and if you make it out alive you'll be pleasantly surprised.
And as Steve pointed out above, what's really at risk? Your reputation among a small group of people whose names you won't be able to remember 10 years from now? Your "dusting yourself off" is mostly the dust off your feet, and then you move on to the next assignment.
Take seriously the testimony of VV76 and others who find themselves outside the institutions and start asking "why didn't we do this sooner?". The fields are white....
"Graduate/graduation" goes in the jargon file also....