Missing Christmas

[NickF]

This is your lack of comprehension because I was not condemning and judging anyone, I was clearly saying that it was a sin and that is the job of Everyone in The Faith so help each other see if they are sinning and that message was to everyone who was or had done it.

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). This is reminiscent of Leviticus 19:15. "You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty.

And that is what I was explaining no matter how much you wish you would return to the old sinful ways we can't or we will die the second death.

How did John Speak to King Herod? Even still he did it out of Love and this is how I am speaking to anyone who is looking back at the ways of the wicked. We who Believe in Him must be willing to Speak Truth even upon Death.

This is why it is so Important for us to 1. Take G-d serious and 2. Hold each other to a Higher Standard.
Sin can not be justified because of we all Sin, there is no Law that is to Hard to Follow and if we work together Everything is Possible.
Maybe people would not miss christmas if we Learn and celebrated all of G-d's Holy Days as He tells us in His Laws.

Are you aware you’re commenting on an old thread from over a year ago on a subject that was resolved?

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

I believe that people are still celebrating it and it is a good things for people to see why they should not.

 

[NickF]

I believe that people are still celebrating it and it is a good things for people to see why they should not.

I have no problem with that. But castigating a certain person for something that no longer applies shows a startling lack of decency or intelligence. I don't really know you at all so I'm assuming you're just over passionate and laser focused so much that you're overlooking the fact that you don't actually need to cast judgement on the OP.

It would probably be more useful and wise to start your own thread on why celebrating christmas is contrary to the Word.

It would make you out to be far more honorable looking, and would actually accomplish your ends far better than the approach you've taken resurrecting an old post that was resolved.

 

[NickF]

Back to OP.

Turn not back on that evil Day or you will turn to a pillar of salt. Genesis 19: 1–38.

well I'm not a pillar of salt yet.
We found a balance in what we're doing. I posted this a year ago, before last Christmas. I'm comfortable with how much we do/don't do. I also follow my husband, and he sets the rules for our family in how we celebrate any of the feasts or traditional events.

You have picked your flavor of Religious Beliefs that makes you content as so many in Churches Worldwide as it pleases your ears.

G-d will not give passes for people who disobey His Laws, this is why it is wise to Pick your Spouses wisely.
Worshipping false idols is still a sin.

Also please show some respect if you want me to reply in the future.

What about the sin of disobeying my husband?

It very clearly seems as you would do it anyways and if it was an issue I would hope your husband would at least hear you out.
I know every husband is King over his house and everyone who lives inside of it, but if your husband Loves G-d would hope He would do what was right. Chanukkah is a celebration of the light of G-d and His Son is The Light of G-d to The World so you do not need christmas as Chanukkah is enuff.

Show some respectfulness and honor and I’ll render that respect and honor to you. Show contentions and dishonor and you only illustrate your own character.

I give honor to those it is due.

I have no problem discussing matters with people I disagree with. But to those who do nothing but act self righteous and judge the servants of another, I have little tolerance and honor to give.

I Speak Truth and I am Respectful but you have not been to me.

You have not been respectful. You've been unnecessarily judgmental and haven't actually comprehended what you've been told. She clearly said that post was from a year ago, that issue was resolved according to the judgement of her husband. You continue to condemn and judge another's servant. This is not respectful, nor in accordance with what YHWH requires.

This is your lack of comprehension because I was not condemning and judging anyone, I was clearly saying that it was a sin and that is the job of Everyone in The Faith so help each other see if they are sinning and that message was to everyone who was or had done it.

Are you aware you’re commenting on an old thread from over a year ago on a subject that was resolved?

Here ya go. If you can't follow the bold italicized text and see how you were condemning the OP and judging her, I don't have much hope for your abilities to comprehend what is being written.

You have picked your flavor of Religious Beliefs that makes you content as so many in Churches Worldwide as it pleases your ears.

G-d will not give passes for people who disobey His Laws, this is why it is wise to Pick your Spouses wisely.

I also follow my husband, and he sets the rules for our family in how we celebrate any of the feasts or traditional events.

It very clearly seems as you would do it anyways

You're saying she would do something despite her husband's commands. You know nothing of this person yet you are judging her heart on a matter you know nothing about. I'm calling you out on this as unrighteousness against Yahweh. You are judging another's servant, and placing yourself as a judge of the law. There is one lawgiver and you are not him buddy. Repent!

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Here ya go. If you can't follow the bold italicized text and see how you were condemning the OP and judging her, I don't have much hope for your abilities to comprehend what is being written.








You're saying she would do something despite her husband's commands. You know nothing of this person yet you are judging her heart on a matter you know nothing about. I'm calling you out on this as unrighteousness against Yahweh. You are judging another's servant, and placing yourself as a judge of the law. There is one lawgiver and you are not him buddy. Repent!

I think you are the one with the issues here, you read into my post what you want.
All my post are very clear and no matter how old it is the message would be the same.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is an example:

FollowingHim2: What about the sin of disobeying my husband?​

It very clearly seems as you would do it anyways and if it was an issue I would hope your husband would at least hear you out.
I know every husband is King over his house and everyone who lives inside of it, but if your husband Loves G-d would hope He would do what was right. Chanukkah is a celebration of the light of G-d and His Son is The Light of G-d to The World so you do not need christmas as Chanukkah is enuff.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yes, this is simple because of what she posted. If it was just her she would most likely still miss Christmas and therefore still wanting to take part in it even without her husband so her husbands law would not apply as single woman as Its just away to blame it on someone else then to just say "Yes, I too wanted to take part in it as well as my husband." that is why I said this.

It very clearly seems as you would do it anyways.

All i am doing is say there is no good reason for any of us to take part in that day or easter and there is no point in starting a new post when this one hits the nail on the head. I think we must talk about this and other extremely important issues.

But none of this was just to her, its to the entire world and if anyone gets upset its most likely because it bothers them.
But we can't just walk about easy issues as its important to talk about everything so we all walk in His Path as His People.
I've taken hits from yall and I have done my personal best to not take it personal, but very few people talking about G-ds Word will be liked.
So if you don't respect me or whatever that is you right to do so and I am okay with that and 99% of what I am talking has very little to just do with one person but everyone as a whole. We must all do better and that includes me as well.

 

[The Revolting Man]

G-d will not give passes for people who disobey His Laws, this is why it is wise to Pick your Spouses wisely.
Worshipping false idols is still a sin.

Also please show some respect if you want me to reply in the future.

Alright, I’m trying to stay out of this but you’re just baiting me.

Can you actually show me the pagan roots of Christmas? Can you show me the pagan festival that got converted in to Christmas? Who did it and when?

Because I can’t find it. I found a bunch of pagans, unbelievers and atheists who all claimed it happened but no one who had any proof, or even a good candidate.

All of the usual suspects have severe problems, many actually post date Christianity for instance.

So, are you just spouting the claims of actual pagans? Are you repeating the attacks of unbelievers and atheists? Or do you actually have some solid information that is allowing you to question the sincerity of other’s faith?

For the record, I keep the applicable Law and for fellowship’s sake don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter. But I refuse to give up the traditions I was raised with, merely to replace them with someone else’s traditions.

 

[The Revolting Man]

It very clearly seems as you would do it anyways and if it was an issue I would hope your husband would at least hear you out.
I know every husband is King over his house and everyone who lives inside of it, but if your husband Loves G-d would hope He would do what was right. Chanukkah is a celebration of the light of G-d and His Son is The Light of G-d to The World so you do not need christmas as Chanukkah is enuff.

What’s with this Hanakah stuff? That’s not a commanded feast. Are you making up holy days? Are you giving deep, spiritual significance to man made festivals? That would make you G-d wouldn’t it? Isn’t He the -nly -ne who can make religious festivals?

 

[The Revolting Man]

And by the way, I Am that I Am is not God’s name. We don’t know His name as is clearly laid out in the Revelation.

When He told Moses that “I Am that I Am” He was telling him to stop asking stupid questions, mind his own business and do what he was told.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Alright, I’m trying to stay out of this but you’re just baiting me.

Can you actually show me the pagan roots of Christmas? Can you show me the pagan festival that got converted in to Christmas? Who did it and when?

Because I can’t find it. I found a bunch of pagans, unbelievers and atheists who all claimed it happened but no one who had any proof, or even a good candidate.

All of the usual suspects have severe problems, many actually post date Christianity for instance.

So, are you just spouting the claims of actual pagans? Are you repeating the attacks of unbelievers and atheists? Or do you actually have some solid information that is allowing you to question the sincerity of other’s faith?

For the record, I keep the applicable Law and for fellowship’s sake don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter. But I refuse to give up the traditions I was raised with, merely to replace them with someone else’s traditions.

So, are you just spouting the claims of actual pagans? Are you repeating the attacks of unbelievers and atheists? Or do you actually have some solid information that is allowing you to question the sincerity of other’s faith?

Reply: I was not calling anyones here Faith in question, but our actions are what show our proof.
She seems to be a nice person, but I again am talking to everyone and not just to anyone person.

We should Love Everyone and sometimes we have to say stuff people don't like, but it is better that someones feelsing hurt then for any of us to lose our souls.



Okay, lets just get to The Facts and Thanks for asking!

here is a page of mine on Facebook called:

The Truth About Christmas​

The Truth About Christmas

The Truth About Christmas. 769 likes · 5 talking about this. The Truth About Christmas.

www.facebook.com

Here is a Video:

CHRISTMAS UNWRAPPED - Exposing the Lies Surrounding the Birth of the Lord Jesus Christ​

Who is Yule?

Yule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Horned God Yule

The Horned God is born in winter, impregnates the Goddess and then dies during the autumn and winter months and is then reborn by the Goddess at Yule. The different relationships throughout the year are sometimes distinguished by splitting the god into aspects, the Oak King and the Holly King.

Horned God - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine. As Constantine had made Christianity the effective religion of the empire, some have speculated that choosing this date had the political motive of weakening the established pagan celebrations.

when do the Catholic Church create Christmas - Google Search

www.google.com

16. The Twelve Days of Christmas Originates from the Numerous Pagan Festivals Once celebrated around midwinter.​

16 Pagan Christmas Traditions that People Mistakenly Credit to Christianity – Page 3 – History Collection

Christmas is a midwinter festival celebrated on December 25 th that is dedicated to the birth of Jesus Christ. Those who mark it celebrate in a variety of ways

historycollection.com

PAGAN ORIGINS OF THE CHRISTMAS TREE. The Christmas tree is an ASHERAH, a sexual object with hidden symbols of male fertility. Yagina Blood from birth THE TRUTH (fertility) CHRISTMAS - The Truth is what matters (Gal I and while the first settlers of this nation were believers and followers of the Messiah, they did not observe "christmas". It was outlawed in all 13 colonies, because it was based on Paganism. The tree is interpreted originally by the occult as a phallus, the ornaments as testicles, and the tinsel as semen; the wreath is a vagina, and together they are fertility symbols.​

https://ifunny.co/picture/pagan-origins-of-the-christmas-tree-the-christmas-tree-is-edE93bV1A

Christmas Has Nothing to do with the Messiah​

Christmas Has Nothing to do with the Messiah – June's Journal

junesjournal.com

THESE 6 CHRISTMAS TRADITIONS ARE ACTUALLY PAGAN CUSTOMS​

These 6 Christmas Traditions Are Actually Pagan Customs • CHEFIN Inc.

Humans as a species love to take inspiration from different cultures, customs, and traditions, and believe it or not, Christmas is no different. If you

chefin.com.au

Meet Krampus, the Christmas Devil Who Punishes Naughty Children​

The Alpine legend is the original bad Santa.

Meet Krampus, the Christmas Devil Who Punishes Naughty Children | HISTORY

The Alpine legend is the original bad Santa.

www.history.com

Christmas has long been a celebration of joy, as Santa Claus rewards all of the good girls and boys with presents and holiday cheer. Children who have not been so nice are said to receive a lump of coal in their stockings, instead of a gift. However, many years ago, children received a visit from the “Christmas Devil,” a consequence much more frightening than coal.

Christmas Traditions: Krampus – The German Christmas Devil

Shop Byers' Choice for our famous Carolers! Buy our handmade figurines and accessories direct from the Byers’ Choice Christmas

www.byerschoice.com

Yuletide is the period of several days around and including Christmas Day
What is the tradition of the Yule log?

Families would bring the trunk of the Yule tree inside and stick the big end of it into the fireplace. The Yule log would feed the fire through the 12 Days of Christmas (from Christmas Day through the evening of the 5th of January—known as Twelfth Night). The ashes of Yule logs were said to be very good for plants.

Yule tree

Featured snippet from the web​

Noun. Yule tree (plural Yule trees) (chiefly paganism) A yuletide decoration comprising a potted tree decorated with ribbons and religious symbols.

Yule tree - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

Decorating with greenery, hanging ornaments in trees, caroling, and gift-giving are all customs that originated with Germanic peoples celebrating the day of Yule. Some scholars believe that the festival of Yule is closely related to Saturnalia, a week-long holiday that ancient Romans celebrated around the solstice.Dec 15, 2020

Celebrating Yule: The Returning of The Light

What is Yule? Many current Christmas traditions have their origins in this ancient pagan holiday. Learn about the history & customs, and how to celebrate Yule this year.

seawitchbotanicals.com

Next Easter!

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

What’s with this Hanakah stuff? That’s not a commanded feast. Are you making up holy days? Are you giving deep, spiritual significance to man made festivals? That would make you G-d wouldn’t it? Isn’t He the -nly -ne who can make religious festivals?

Chanukkah:
Hanukkah, (Hebrew: “Dedication”) also spelled Ḥanukka, Chanukah, or Chanukkah, also called Feast of Dedication, Festival of Lights, or Feast of the Maccabees, Jewish festival that begins on Kislev 25 (usually in December, according to the Gregorian calendar) and is celebrated for eight days.Oct 19, 2022

Hanukkah | Definition, History, Customs, Story, Food, & Facts

Hanukkah, (Hebrew: “Dedication”) also spelled Ḥanukka, Chanukah, or Chanukkah, also called Feast of Dedication, Festival of Lights, or Feast of the Maccabees, Jewish festival that begins on Kislev 25 (usually in December, according to the Gregorian calendar) and is celebrated for eight days...

www.britannica.com

Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?​

Hanukkah: Why Did Jesus Celebrate the Feast of Dedication?

The Festival of Lights is not in the canon of Scripture. And yet, Jesus celebrated Hanukkah. It is a reminder to dedicate our lives to God.

firmisrael.org

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

And by the way, I Am that I Am is not God’s name. We don’t know His name as is clearly laid out in the Revelation.

When He told Moses that “I Am that I Am” He was telling him to stop asking stupid questions, mind his own business and do what he was told.

Yes, G-d and G-d Alone Made and Planned Everything even this as we talk.
Nothing is a shock to Him as He Knows Everything.

G-d Knows who is Saved and who is not even before our time was created.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

The True Pagan Origins of Easter | Ancient Architects​

Easter was originally the celebration of Ishtar, the Assyrian and Babylonian goddess of fertility and sex. Her symbols (like the egg and bunny) were and still are fertility and sex symbols (or did you actually think eggs and bunnies had anything to do with the resurrection?) After Constantine decided to Christianize the Empire, Easter was changed to represent Jesus. But at its roots, Easter (which is how you pronounce Ishtar) is all about celebrating fertility and sex.

Beyond Ishtar: The Tradition of Eggs at Easter

Don't believe every meme you encounter.

blogs.scientificamerican.com

Why do Rabbits laid eggs? There was a bird flying in the sky and it laid an egg and when that egg hit the ground it busted open and Eostre popped out and turned it into a Rabbit.

I will post more but I am very tired.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Have you read those links or just the headlines? There are no Roman festivals that line up with Christmas. There aren’t even any that took place on December 25. I appreciate a bunch of cutting and pasting as much as the next man, which is to say not at all, but the questions were:
1. Which pagan holidays were morphed in to Christmas.
2. When did it happen?
3. Who did it?

Random men popping in to make vague, unsubstantiated claims that they refuse to define or defend but allow them to scoff at every one else are not in short supply around here. It will be hard to distinguish yourself in that crowd.

Lay out your actual claims and the arguments for them and you might change some minds. Otherwise you’re just wasting everyone’s time.

So, are you just spouting the claims of actual pagans? Are you repeating the attacks of unbelievers and atheists? Or do you actually have some solid information that is allowing you to question the sincerity of other’s faith?

Reply: I was not calling anyones here Faith in question, but our actions are what show our proof.
She seems to be a nice person, but I again am talking to everyone and not just to anyone person.

We should Love Everyone and sometimes we have to say stuff people don't like, but it is better that someones feelsing hurt then for any of us to lose our souls.



Okay, lets just get to The Facts and Thanks for asking!

here is a page of mine on Facebook called:

The Truth About Christmas​

The Truth About Christmas

The Truth About Christmas. 769 likes · 5 talking about this. The Truth About Christmas.

www.facebook.com

Here is a Video:

CHRISTMAS UNWRAPPED - Exposing the Lies Surrounding the Birth of the Lord Jesus Christ​

Who is Yule?

Yule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Horned God Yule

The Horned God is born in winter, impregnates the Goddess and then dies during the autumn and winter months and is then reborn by the Goddess at Yule. The different relationships throughout the year are sometimes distinguished by splitting the god into aspects, the Oak King and the Holly King.

Horned God - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine. As Constantine had made Christianity the effective religion of the empire, some have speculated that choosing this date had the political motive of weakening the established pagan celebrations.

when do the Catholic Church create Christmas - Google Search

www.google.com

16. The Twelve Days of Christmas Originates from the Numerous Pagan Festivals Once celebrated around midwinter.​

16 Pagan Christmas Traditions that People Mistakenly Credit to Christianity – Page 3 – History Collection

Christmas is a midwinter festival celebrated on December 25 th that is dedicated to the birth of Jesus Christ. Those who mark it celebrate in a variety of ways

historycollection.com

PAGAN ORIGINS OF THE CHRISTMAS TREE. The Christmas tree is an ASHERAH, a sexual object with hidden symbols of male fertility. Yagina Blood from birth THE TRUTH (fertility) CHRISTMAS - The Truth is what matters (Gal I and while the first settlers of this nation were believers and followers of the Messiah, they did not observe "christmas". It was outlawed in all 13 colonies, because it was based on Paganism. The tree is interpreted originally by the occult as a phallus, the ornaments as testicles, and the tinsel as semen; the wreath is a vagina, and together they are fertility symbols.​

https://ifunny.co/picture/pagan-origins-of-the-christmas-tree-the-christmas-tree-is-edE93bV1A

Christmas Has Nothing to do with the Messiah​

Christmas Has Nothing to do with the Messiah – June's Journal

junesjournal.com

THESE 6 CHRISTMAS TRADITIONS ARE ACTUALLY PAGAN CUSTOMS​

These 6 Christmas Traditions Are Actually Pagan Customs • CHEFIN Inc.

Humans as a species love to take inspiration from different cultures, customs, and traditions, and believe it or not, Christmas is no different. If you

chefin.com.au

Meet Krampus, the Christmas Devil Who Punishes Naughty Children​

The Alpine legend is the original bad Santa.

Meet Krampus, the Christmas Devil Who Punishes Naughty Children | HISTORY

The Alpine legend is the original bad Santa.

www.history.com

Christmas has long been a celebration of joy, as Santa Claus rewards all of the good girls and boys with presents and holiday cheer. Children who have not been so nice are said to receive a lump of coal in their stockings, instead of a gift. However, many years ago, children received a visit from the “Christmas Devil,” a consequence much more frightening than coal.

Christmas Traditions: Krampus – The German Christmas Devil

Shop Byers' Choice for our famous Carolers! Buy our handmade figurines and accessories direct from the Byers’ Choice Christmas

www.byerschoice.com

Yuletide is the period of several days around and including Christmas Day
What is the tradition of the Yule log?

Families would bring the trunk of the Yule tree inside and stick the big end of it into the fireplace. The Yule log would feed the fire through the 12 Days of Christmas (from Christmas Day through the evening of the 5th of January—known as Twelfth Night). The ashes of Yule logs were said to be very good for plants.

Yule tree

Featured snippet from the web​

Noun. Yule tree (plural Yule trees) (chiefly paganism) A yuletide decoration comprising a potted tree decorated with ribbons and religious symbols.

Yule tree - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

Decorating with greenery, hanging ornaments in trees, caroling, and gift-giving are all customs that originated with Germanic peoples celebrating the day of Yule. Some scholars believe that the festival of Yule is closely related to Saturnalia, a week-long holiday that ancient Romans celebrated around the solstice.Dec 15, 2020

Celebrating Yule: The Returning of The Light

What is Yule? Many current Christmas traditions have their origins in this ancient pagan holiday. Learn about the history & customs, and how to celebrate Yule this year.

seawitchbotanicals.com

Next Easter

 

[The Revolting Man]

More cut and paste, it’s like arts and crafts time at a demented Messianic yeshiva. No one said that there wasn’t such a thing as Hannakah. I asked why you were celebrating it and giving it spiritual significance when it is not a commanded feast. Why do you get to declare a holy day but no one else does?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Yes, G-d and G-d Alone Made and Planned Everything even this as we talk.
Nothing is a shock to Him as He Knows Everything.

G-d Knows who is Saved and who is not even before our time was created.

What? That reply has nothing to do with the comment. I made a significant and relatively unique claim about the name of God and you come back with some unrelated, axiomatic Yoda-ism? If you’re not going to be serious then why invest the effort?

 

[Michael Moon]

1. Which pagan holidays were morphed in to Christmas.
2. When did it happen?
3. Who did it?

I'm not really invested in the rest of this argument, but these questions are what interest me.

For reference: I am Torah-Submissive/Observant and my personal opinion is that Christmas and Easter really shouldn't be celebrated as religious holidays in any sense. I don't like the idea of adding extra feast days (especially while not observing the ones actually stated in Torah, but I digress). I view Hanukkah as a celebration similar to the fourth of July, sorry if that's offensive to anyone but that's just my take.

As to the three questions
1. Saturnalia, and that is wear the gift giving comes from (from my studies). Alot of the other aspects have been added through time from other sources, mostly pagan, but maybe not taken from idolatry specifically. Rather, they were probably added just as cultural traditions that got handed down and around.
2. December 25th was the Winter Solstice on the Julian Calendar. Julian Calendar was set up in 45 BC. Saturnalia was the major celebration for that time, centered on the Winter Solstice. The Gregorian Calendar was introduced in 1582 by King Phillip II of Spain. This, along with better research into astronomy led to them moving the winter solstice to the 21st. Even then, the 25th was then linked to Saturnalia as Saturnalia ended the 23rd, the 24th represented the "death" of that year's sun, and the 25th represented the "birth" of the new sun.
3. I mean... who do you think?

The Catholics ofcourse linked the Roman festival to the new Roman Christendom. First recorded celebration of Christmas (from my research, which could suck) is in 336 AD, right at the end of Constantine's reign. They also linked March 25th (The the date of the Vernal Equinox) to the conception of Jesus, which is still celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation.

I hope this helped.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I'm not really invested in the rest of this argument, but these questions are what interest me.

For reference: I am Torah-Submissive/Observant and my personal opinion is that Christmas and Easter really shouldn't be celebrated as religious holidays in any sense. I don't like the idea of adding extra feast days (especially while not observing the ones actually stated in Torah, but I digress). I view Hanukkah as a celebration similar to the fourth of July, sorry if that's offensive to anyone but that's just my take.

As to the three questions
1. Saturnalia, and that is wear the gift giving comes from (from my studies). Alot of the other aspects have been added through time from other sources, mostly pagan, but maybe not taken from idolatry specifically. Rather, they were probably added just as cultural traditions that got handed down and around.
2. December 25th was the Winter Solstice on the Julian Calendar. Julian Calendar was set up in 45 BC. Saturnalia was the major celebration for that time, centered on the Winter Solstice. The Gregorian Calendar was introduced in 1582 by King Phillip II of Spain. This, along with better research into astronomy led to them moving the winter solstice to the 21st. Even then, the 25th was then linked to Saturnalia as Saturnalia ended the 23rd, the 24th represented the "death" of that year's sun, and the 25th represented the "birth" of the new sun.
3. I mean... who do you think?
View attachment 3940
The Catholics ofcourse linked the Roman festival to the new Roman Christendom. First recorded celebration of Christmas (from my research, which could suck) is in 336 AD, right at the end of Constantine's reign. They also linked March 25th (The the date of the Vernal Equinox) to the conception of Jesus, which is still celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation.

I hope this helped.

Honest answers and I’ll give you an honest reply. Let me double check some stuff first though. I am relatively certain that you have some facts turned around about the winter solstice but let me make sure. It’s been a while since I did this study and I sometimes manufacture memories.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I'm not really invested in the rest of this argument, but these questions are what interest me.

For reference: I am Torah-Submissive/Observant and my personal opinion is that Christmas and Easter really shouldn't be celebrated as religious holidays in any sense. I don't like the idea of adding extra feast days (especially while not observing the ones actually stated in Torah, but I digress). I view Hanukkah as a celebration similar to the fourth of July, sorry if that's offensive to anyone but that's just my take.

As to the three questions
1. Saturnalia, and that is wear the gift giving comes from (from my studies). Alot of the other aspects have been added through time from other sources, mostly pagan, but maybe not taken from idolatry specifically. Rather, they were probably added just as cultural traditions that got handed down and around.
2. December 25th was the Winter Solstice on the Julian Calendar. Julian Calendar was set up in 45 BC. Saturnalia was the major celebration for that time, centered on the Winter Solstice. The Gregorian Calendar was introduced in 1582 by King Phillip II of Spain. This, along with better research into astronomy led to them moving the winter solstice to the 21st. Even then, the 25th was then linked to Saturnalia as Saturnalia ended the 23rd, the 24th represented the "death" of that year's sun, and the 25th represented the "birth" of the new sun.
3. I mean... who do you think?
View attachment 3940
The Catholics ofcourse linked the Roman festival to the new Roman Christendom. First recorded celebration of Christmas (from my research, which could suck) is in 336 AD, right at the end of Constantine's reign. They also linked March 25th (The the date of the Vernal Equinox) to the conception of Jesus, which is still celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation.

I hope this helped.

Okay, quick check refreshed my memory. Saturnalia is a poor candidate for a proto-Christmas. First off the celebration was from December 17-23. Secondly it was never described in its entirety until late antiquity. In other words 400-600 years after the birth of Christ and solidly after even the latest dates for the establishment of Christmas.

This means that it might not have been very important anyway because we have substantial cultural records from the period and it should have been described frequently and early if it was so important that it had to co-opted shed than quashed. Remember that these were people who weren’t afraid of quashing things.

Another thing to remember is that Constantine didn’t suppress paganism, which would coexist with Christianity for some time yet. There were still pagan emperors after Constantine. Co-opting pagan holidays, and assigning them to the birth of Christ no less, would have been noted.

Look up all the things the early church fought about, it was some petty, minute shit. Some of it makes BibFam flame wars look like sober, big picture synods.

A fa better candidate for proto-Christmas was Sol Invictus. I can’t remember the problems with it. I’ll have to look it back up.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I'm not really invested in the rest of this argument, but these questions are what interest me.

For reference: I am Torah-Submissive/Observant and my personal opinion is that Christmas and Easter really shouldn't be celebrated as religious holidays in any sense. I don't like the idea of adding extra feast days (especially while not observing the ones actually stated in Torah, but I digress). I view Hanukkah as a celebration similar to the fourth of July, sorry if that's offensive to anyone but that's just my take.

As to the three questions
1. Saturnalia, and that is wear the gift giving comes from (from my studies). Alot of the other aspects have been added through time from other sources, mostly pagan, but maybe not taken from idolatry specifically. Rather, they were probably added just as cultural traditions that got handed down and around.
2. December 25th was the Winter Solstice on the Julian Calendar. Julian Calendar was set up in 45 BC. Saturnalia was the major celebration for that time, centered on the Winter Solstice. The Gregorian Calendar was introduced in 1582 by King Phillip II of Spain. This, along with better research into astronomy led to them moving the winter solstice to the 21st. Even then, the 25th was then linked to Saturnalia as Saturnalia ended the 23rd, the 24th represented the "death" of that year's sun, and the 25th represented the "birth" of the new sun.
3. I mean... who do you think?
View attachment 3940
The Catholics ofcourse linked the Roman festival to the new Roman Christendom. First recorded celebration of Christmas (from my research, which could suck) is in 336 AD, right at the end of Constantine's reign. They also linked March 25th (The the date of the Vernal Equinox) to the conception of Jesus, which is still celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation.

I hope this helped.

Okay, Sol Invictus was a holiday initiated by Aurelius in 274 A.D. We know that December 25th was determinedly believed to be the traditional date for Christ birth by North African Donatist Christians before 321. The last great pagan Roman persecution of Christians had just finished up in the first few years of the 300s. So not a lot of time for North Africa Christians to start feeling all happy, happy, joy, joy over Roman pagan traditions that were only 30 years old themselves.

 

[FollowingHim]

Why do so many Jews use G-d? It is simply a way to keep from sinning.
Also it a habit being Jewish I write it often and sometime I write Hashem.
We can't write any name of G-d on something that might be deleted, but some say that on internet nothing really goes away. But its out of habit.

The question was - why do you remove the vowel in the word "God", which is not His Name?

This is not a common Jewish practice - most Jewish sources I am aware of just write "God". This is because God is not His Name - it is a translation of Elohim. See the Jewish Encyclopaedia for instance - it explains this and does not remove the vowels from either God or Elohim.

Reformjudaism.org states that the use of "g-d" is "a fairly recent custom in America", and is not mainstream as "the bulk of Jewish legal opinion" disagrees with it. So it is a very niche practice of a few Jews in one country.

So why do you, personally, choose to adopt this very niche and peculiar practice? Sure it's out of habit now, but it would have taken a lot of practice to establish that habit. Why did you consciously choose to start that habit? Is it just because you met some Jews who did it and you wanted to be like them?

The reason I am pressing you on this is because you are presenting yourself as an authority on how to follow God, and have falsely accused my wife of idolatry, based on the fact that she has a slightly different attitude to you on how to approach God's Holy Days - and because she follows my leadership. However, at the same time, you appear incapable of giving a clear explanation for why you do the things that you do, and appear as far as I can see to be blindly following the practices of others without understanding the reasoning behind them. This is very hypocritical.

Show some respect for others, and stop throwing around accusations of sin against people you have never even met.