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2 Timothy 2:14

Nikud

Nikud

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them in the sight of the Lord, that they strive not about words, to no profit, to the subverting of them that hear

Guilty as charged.
Who?
All of us.

Apparently we have been doing what our fore fathers have done and what we were told not to.

What have we accomplished with the bickering and fighting?

How many have come to the forum on search of answers?

How many have abandon the idea of finding answers about biblical plural marriage, biblical monogamous marriage, patriarchy, about what it means to be a biblical man, a biblical woman?

Now that I got your attention, let's talk about a few things.
Here it is 2:30 in the morning and Im unable to sleep because this is on my mind.

Patriarchy: a system of society or in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line. G-ds plan for the family.

Biblical man: Theres alot that can be said here but one thing is clear. G-ds choice as head of the house. The one in a biblical marriage who wields G-d granted Authority. With authority comes acountability.

We fall into distraction about what Dr X, Celebrity Y, Social Warrior Organization Z, or the Modern Church is teaching or saying about men or marriage or the relationships between men and women. That doesnt change the fact that when it comes to accountability it starts and ends with a Biblical Man. Instead of being distracted by outrage, do something about it. Man up and confront the Churches, Celebrities, or Social Warriors. Why moan and cry over the practices of those who reject biblical life here? It does nothing to edify Biblical Familes. We all came to Biblical Familes with questions about Biblical plural marriages and in search of answers. Now most of the time we endlessly debate topics that don't pertain to the reason we came here in the first place.

Here's a suggestion for things we might want to focus on.

Biblical plural marriage

Biblical monagomaus marriage, because before you can have a Biblical plural marriage yoy must have a Biblical monagomaus marriage.

What does it mean to be a Biblical man or woman? Because if your not living as a Biblical man or woman how can you have a Biblical monagomaus marriage.

Not married, then having a thread about trying to have a courtship/dating in a Biblical way and how a woman could do so with a Biblical Man where single or married. (without off topic distractions)

The ladies do a good job of sharing their struggles and break throughs, but that's another good topic as it applies to any of the topics above.

This is where our focus should be.

If we're going to have the look what was revealed to me conversations let's remember we're not a cookie cutter bunch. Show what you learned, don't be upset when someone gives there opinion.

I for one, will state my beleif but I wont argue my point. I'll clarify what I said If asked but if you want to Sharpen Iron PM me. I dont want to be a distraction for others.




 
Hey, thanks Kevin. :)
I'll say an Amen to that and agree that our duty here is not to be outraged and complaining about what others are/might be doing wrong. However, I don't know that the term bickering and fighting would be generally correct...(?) I'm super grateful for all who have helped me focus on doing what is right in PM and dealing with the battles out there in the big wide world with those who oppose biblical marriage. One aspect of the BF forum that is most appreciated is the encouragement to persevere in the midst of the trials. As soon as someone posts a comment or starts a thread expressing a need for encouragement or constructive counsel, lots jump in to answer/help and that's priceless. Personal experience has shown that it can get very lonely very fast and the path gets dark even faster when all one's family and friends turn against you for being PM minded or having taken another wife. @andrew has made comment about the situation with BF a number of times where he says it's like firemen waiting for the emergency call. We're all just hanging around and gasbagging until the call comes but, when it comes, everyone jumps to the task.

Perhaps more attention to building a well equipped resource library for dealing with the those subjects you raised above would be helpful(?)

Thanks for the challenge brother.

I'm heading back to the Philippines in a few hours so my thanks to you all. Keep fit and ready to be fighting those fires, and also equipping others to be good fire fighters!

Blessings
 
Good thoughts, @Kevin , and I agree with @frederick . Honestly, there is little bickering, etc, however in-depth Scripture digging will lead to hairsplitting and differences of opinion. The key is that few get offended.

I'm sure some old members get tired of seeing the same topics come up, basic topics Germaine to PM, so a variety of threads is fine. Key is that we maintain a spirit of brotherhood, interact as our Messiah would and share fruits of the Spirit.

Brothers, I salute all of you for being real, honest and transparent to the degree you can be on the web.

Blessings all.
 
One of the things that I’ve come to appreciate the most about the site is the spirit of debate or iron sharpening with grace. Though we have much content and quite often disagreements about the minutia, with rare exception, the group here strives to be gracious and obvious effort is made to phrase responses in a manner that is non offensive (or as non offensive as possible), and as one of the moderators, I’d just like to say thanks for that. It is truly appreciated.

I have been a member of another site (that is no longer in existence I think) where people would pop in for a minute and not engage because a couple of trolls made the site unbearable for anyone else and the mods were nonexistent.

That being said, it may be possible for us to aim more towards those goals, but I’d like us to be careful that we don’t lose the organic feel to the site, (where everybody talks about what’s on their mind and heart). It would be nice if we had a more focused section that we could use as a reference link that you could copy/paste and send to someone as a link so it’s the first exposure to the site rather than the community side of things. Right now though, free time to devote to that is virtually a nonexistent commodity for the admins and mods so it’ll have to wait for now until either we have the available time or someone takes up the mantle for that.
 
The forum is never going to be the go-to link for introducing people to the concept of biblical marriage. That's my opinion, of course, feel free to disagree (as long as it stays cordial...;)), but most folks should be sent to the main site first, with the suggestion that they read through that information before even thinking about engaging with the forum.

The main site could probably benefit from one or two highly visible banners that say something along the lines of " if you are (or someone you know is) going through something right now, here's a way to contact someone who can help you, 24-hr response guaranteed". Again, my opinion based on my experience. Does anyone else have suggestions re how we could improve the main website—the public-facing side of this web presence—to make it a useful "first exposure to the site" (quoting VV76)?
 
andrew said:
The forum is never going to be the go-to link for introducing people to the concept of biblical marriage. That's my opinion, of course, feel free to disagree (as long as it stays cordial...;)), but most folks should be sent to the main site first, with the suggestion that they read through that information before even thinking about engaging with the forum.

The main site could probably benefit from one or two highly visible banners that say something along the lines of " if you are (or someone you know is) going through something right now, here's a way to contact someone who can help you, 24-hr response guaranteed". Again, my opinion based on my experience. Does anyone else have suggestions re how we could improve the main website—the public-facing side of this web presence—to make it a useful "first exposure to the site" (quoting VV76)?
Click to expand...

No offense but, the main site seems a little bare bones. Like, we need to flesh it out with some more in depth content. Lots of TBD's in there. Though maybe this has changed since I looked 6 mo ago?

Good idea on the contact line thing. And I agree what you're saying about the forum not being the primary introduction. By it's nature this is not for introductions but indepth discussion. The topics which rise to the top will churn and rarely be appropriate for basic intro as it doesn't take long to get beyond that.
 
No offense taken. That’s why I asked for input....
 
Speaking of which, what are your suggestions for “more in-depth content”? Such as....
 
Not wanting to offend, so please don't take any offense. People who come to this site are looking for or are interested in PM, or at least how a biblical family should function. Yet many of the threads go into a variety of religious beliefs that have little to no relevance to biblical PM. I understand that most of this is due to the desire to seek out friendship or even just to discuss the scriptures at length , both can be hard to do or find in a world with little respect for the scriptures or even for God himself.
Just as a suggestion
How would we go if a section was started that was simply a study of the scriptures on the subject of Gods standards for the marital union? EG each tread was one book of the bible (if that got to big then it could be broken into subsections). If we then agree with the comments made on a selected verse, just like it and move on, if we have something more to offer then post it. The reason for this suggestion is that at the end we would have a concise study of the scriptures that is not only complete but clear and covered from a variety of religious backgrounds. What if perhaps we had a set amount of scripture to consider for the a set period of time, say Genesis chapter 1-10 then 11-20 and so on. (if at a latter point in time we would like to offer another point or thought then that could be considered and inserted as required)
To my mind if such a thing could be accomplished it would not only give a wonderful and clear presentation of the scriptures on the subject of PM, but it would also present to all, the unity of thought on this one subject and could be invaluable in assisting others to come to a clear understanding of the scriptural standards we all so passionately believe in.
If we were willing agree in the beginning, then perhaps the administrators could have the ability to tidy things up as needed so that it is not just a mess of thoughts but rather an easy to read logical, clear, accurate examination of the the Scriptures that others could reference. This would not be about anyone's ego nor would it have just on author but it would be (when finished) the best reference to scriptural understanding on this subject the world has to offer.
Yes such a thing would be a lot of work, but what a beautiful and valuable work it would be!
 
andrew said:
Does anyone else have suggestions re how we could improve the main website—the public-facing side of this web presence—to make it a useful "first exposure to the site"
Click to expand...

Maybe regularly update the blog, or else delete it? I know my interest in a website wanes if I see that the most recent update is over a year old. Also when you scroll down, the Upcoming Event is a November 17 Retreat. If they don't dip into the forums, a first time visitor could get the impression that this ministry has recently died.

Also the Christian Plural Marriage is : Legal section is pretty terse. And the Christian Plural Marriage is : Practical section is just a Coming Soon!

The practical side of it I think is a really interesting side of plural, especially to people who're newly exposed to the idea. Leaving it blank is a real mood killer.

And also there should be something addressing "biblical patriarchy" or "male headship" on the home section, I think, since that is also an integral part of the puzzle that is also countercultural.

What would really be neat is some kind of fun interactive cyoa-like presentation for the FAQ portion instead of the scroll down type.
 
Aussies, the only thing about that is that when the smoke cleared, what we would have would be something that looked a lot like the two sections we already have on the website that cover all the pertinent scriptures for plural marriage, which are basically just the verses on marriage.
 
Slumberfreeze, agreed on keeping it fresh. An easy move would be adding newsletter articles to the blog; beyond that does anyone want to volunteer to write blog posts?

Same with the legal and practical sections—those just need to be finished out. Any volunteers?

The headship piece is the truly 'missing link'. Slumber, you're a good writer—help a brother out? :cool:

The CYOA project goes farther down the list....
 
andrew said:
Speaking of which, what are your suggestions for “more in-depth content”? Such as...
Click to expand...

Ok, fair enough; some suggestions:

Start with filling in the TBD sections is the first thing and my biggest beef. There are lots of those and they indicate good and useful topics left unfulfilled. Solidify the basics before worrying about indepth stuff.

The biggest hole in the website will be the hardest to fill: the legal sections. Probably not a concern for a lot of those reading but if it is, they really need the info and it's very hard to get.

I also think we should take advantage of the work VV has done and write an article on the early church's view's on polygamy.

Separate of that I think a historical retrospective on the first century and on would be helpful in understanding how we got here. Something along the lines of: Hebrews were polygamous, Greeks brought monogamy and Christ's teachings on marriage and divorce were to counter the serial monogamy the Greeks brought, then point out how the early church fathers believed polygamy wasn't sinful and they taught Paul in 1 Cor 7 accepted it and lastly how monogamy came to dominate via the church politics and acceptance of Greek anti-sex viewpoints. In other words, there isn't some unbroken chain of monogamy teaching back to the first century. Basically, a narrative to counter the idea that Christ brought monogamy and led us away from the polygamy of the Hebrews.

We could leverage the work I've done researching concubinage for an in-depth article on that.

Bible Passages Relevant to Plural Marriage should include the Roman's passages teaching that the law came so we would know what sin is and how absent a law against it is not sin. This is the most powerful argument for PM I've seen and shortcuts a whole lot of other nice logical sounding reasons.

On the Common Objections Page you should deal a couple common idea's I've heard lately that are related. One goes that if we allow polygamy a few men will soak up all the women and most men will go without. Another is related and it says that Western Civ was successful because we had monogamy which gave every man motive to work and fight and if we go to polygamy we'll have lots of incel's who will riot and burn the whole thing down. These are probably the two biggest arguments I've seen against polygamy outside of using the NT passages on divorce.

Slumberfreeze said:
Maybe regularly update the blog, or else delete it? I know my interest in a website wanes if I see that the most recent update is over a year old. Also when you scroll down, the Upcoming Event is a November 17 Retreat. If they don't dip into the forums, a first time visitor could get the impression that this ministry has recently died.

Also the Christian Plural Marriage is : Legal section is pretty terse. And the Christian Plural Marriage is : Practical section is just a Coming Soon!

The practical side of it I think is a really interesting side of plural, especially to people who're newly exposed to the idea. Leaving it blank is a real mood killer.

And also there should be something addressing "biblical patriarchy" or "male headship" on the home section, I think, since that is also an integral part of the puzzle that is also countercultural.

What would really be neat is some kind of fun interactive cyoa-like presentation for the FAQ portion instead of the scroll down type.
Click to expand...

And I agree with all of that too.
 
Good stuff, rockfox!

I'll get to work on editing the two existing sections. Question: All the other objections are scripture-driven, so would it make more sense to star adding cultural/sociological/political objections to that page, or should we have a new page to rehearse the nonbiblical or abiblical objections?

@Verifyveritas76, could you put together an essay re first century / early church views?

And @rockfox, could you write the 'historical retrospective' according to your outline? :cool:

RF, if you want to do an article on concubines, that would work also, but I'd prioritize the history over that. FWIW, because concubinage is a controversial and often misunderstood or even deliberately twisted subject, I'd see that more as a blog post or something to posted on the forum or distributed as a newslettter article (so maybe also on the blog). IOW, not part of our 'intro' or 'basic' information, where I think it would be distracting at best, My two cents....
 
I volunteer to help... I need to go back through the front and see what all is available.

Two items I'd suggest:

-Resource page listing books and articles off site demonstrating a) we are not looks alone in our thinking and b) giving the browser additional well ordered sources.

- Change the entrance slightly so that FORUMS is not front and center. Rather, I think INFORMATION or research should be front and center, then forum link a little further in so the first time visitor gets an ordered overview/presentation before diving into the forum.

jmho
 
All good.

There is a books and articles page. It could be added to and made more obvious.

The forums thing is a legacy situation that we'll have to clear with Nathan. I agree with you that for the website, for first time visitors running across the site, it would be better strategy to de-emphasize the forums. Maybe even replace that with the "if you're having a crisis here's how you get in touch with someone" banner referenced above. But that goes back to the previous version of the site wherein the forum was pretty much the main reason for the site, and the other stuff was more of an afterthought or add-on.

For those of us who occasionally refer someone to the site, we can use our judgment and knowledge of the personal situation to decide whether to send them to the site or the forum first. But I think most of the time, and in basically all cases of random search engine discovery of our site, it would be better for them to 'acclimate' by going over the public-facing information that we have (and are now gathering up a head of steam to improve) before moving over to the rough and tumble (and sometimes way 0ff-mission) interaction of the forum.

I'll get with Nathan on it.
 
I agree with filling the existing gaps first. There's already a nice starting framework, if it were fleshed out.

I would wait until this content is fleshed out before de-emphasising the forum. At present people have to be sent there to learn much.

The legal sections really aren't that difficult. I did the NZ one and it didn't actually take much work. If you take that as a framework to show the basic bits of information that anybody would want to have, and then just look up those details in your local legislation, it wouldn't be hard to write up the same for any country or state. Just a few hours of trawling official websites to find the details. Many of you will already know much of the details for your own state as you'll have looked into it already for your own information. Stick a "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer on it and rely heavily on links to the actual information, so it's the reader's responsibility to double-check everything before acting on that information.

Adding newsletter articles to the blog is a very simple suggestion to keep this fresh.

One thing we had on the old site that we neglected to bring to the new was a page listing every known Biblical polygamist. That wouldn't take much to fish out, format and repost, and it's really interesting reading.
 
andrew said:
Slumberfreeze, agreed on keeping it fresh. An easy move would be adding newsletter articles to the blog; beyond that does anyone want to volunteer to write blog posts?

Same with the legal and practical sections—those just need to be finished out. Any volunteers?

The headship piece is the truly 'missing link'. Slumber, you're a good writer—help a brother out? :cool:

The CYOA project goes farther down the list....
Click to expand...
Could you set it up so that any of the "trusted members" or members of level xyz had post access to the blog area so you could have various bloggers within a "standards and guidelines" less effort involved just have a mod keep an eye on it to make sure nothing too outrageous posts

on another note, when I found the site, I somehow managed to miss the "forums" section, unbelievably. Maybe this was just my issue.
 
IshChayil said:
Could you set it up so that any of the "trusted members" or members of level xyz had post access to the blog area so you could have various bloggers within a "standards and guidelines" less effort involved just have a mod keep an eye on it to make sure nothing too outrageous posts

on another note, when I found the site, I somehow managed to miss the "forums" section, unbelievably. Maybe this was just my issue.
Click to expand...

Or, it might be easier to have a 'publications committee' of three or four trusted members who review submissions and make a final recommendation to the Mods so as not to add to their work load...
 
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