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Adding-to-your-family guidelines

nathan

nathan

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As we get ready to launch an Introductions service, I've been thinking about some "guidelines" for those looking to expand their families.
I'm not talking about purely Biblical guidelines, I think those are easier - I am talking about practical, loving, caring, common-sense guidelines, not hard and fast 'rules'.

Here's a couple first thoughts. Tell me what you disagree with, and what you'd add:

a) For men that are married, never get into a relationship, beyond very casual "get to know", without including your 1st (and 2nd or 3rd if applicable) in the process. Your wive(s) opinions should be one of the biggest "fleeces" for you in determining if someone is right for your family. If they are not, well perhaps it's not time to consider expanding your family, but focusing on getting it on the same page. (And on the flip side: Single ladies, never get involved with a man who won't include his wives in the process.)

b) There should be a long period of time (say 2 years minimum, in my opinion) for a family to "assimilate" a new wife AFTER she she joins the family - little to no thought should be given to pursuing another wife in that time, barring some clear sign from God, that everybody sees. Family dynamics involving multiple people don't get just aligned perfectly overnight. Giving a new wife plenty of time to be a "new" wife would seem wisdom to me.

c) Courting should involve more than the Internet and phone - there needs to be "in person" time, involving everybody for a family with a wife - and probably should last at a minimum 6-12 months, not just a few months. Absolutely no "commitments" should be made during that period. That's rash, and sets people up for failed relationships. Courting vs dating for adults not living with parents may be a difficult distinction, but I see it as involving protecting the woman's heart and emotions, by making practical considerations and deep getting-to-know each other take precedence over forming an emotional connection and commitment.

d) Other people that both parties trust and respect (that are plural friendly, obviously) should be included, for their opinions, insights, and potential 'non-emotional' take on what they see going on. Approaching plural marriage in our society, even as caring Christians, is hard enough - too many of us have messed up. Find somebody you trust and lean on them. Build covenant relationships.

I know some men will say "but those infringe on my right to lead unconditionally as I see fit". Yes, they do. Biblically, as I see it, you have the right to burn down your own house, too. That doesn't mean it's wisdom.
 
I am an amatuer at this so I cannot truly add much from a practical standpoint or from experience. However, these things do make sense and the opening left for hearing directly from God for something counter to these guidelines is good in my opinion. I believe it will take God's intervention in order to make things work any quicker. In the meantime, I find this advice very good.

Be blessed,

Dr. Ray
 
I am in agreement with you in all of this.

In our less than patriarchal setup, I have been warned to not pursue another spouse without the full knowledge and consent of the wives. That isn’t to say that casual contact with women is forbidden, but before the relationship moves to the next level, my wives will be in the mix.

I remember a TV documentary of a man with two wives who brought home a prospective bride for his wives to consider. It was a disaster in the making. The wives resented it, and the unfortunate woman didn’t stand a chance with them. After reading one of this forum member’s comments about the brutality of the dreaded “interview” with the wives, we had a family discussion on how we would handle this eventuality. It goes without saying that she would have to be a godly woman before anything else was considered.

We decided that should we become interested a new addition, rather than have an interview, we would invite her to become part of the family with the understanding that she was entering into a covenanted relationship, and the wives would groom her as wife. It would only be a matter of time before the wedding.

However, she would be free to break that covenant at any time before the wedding, and would be expected to resolve any personal “baggage” during this period. We would not assume any of her personal debt, nor expect her to mingle her resources with the family’s, though a little help with the groceries etc. would be appreciated. We felt that a year or so would be a good guesstimate, but the period could be as flexible as time permits.

This time could also be a courting time, to use a dated term, with perhaps brief times alone. But no extended unchaperoned periods.

Of course, man plans and G-d laughs. So we expect that more than one of these “rules” might be bent or disregarded under special circumstances. So every step has to be considered with much prayer before moving on to the next.
 
Well said, though it may be difficult for us to find sturdy Christians to help with evaluation.

For us though the 6 to one year wait would the be the hardest part. Its something my wife and I agreed to when we first planned to go poly, but we both commit fast, so it will be the thing that pushes our resolve.
 
Man plans and G-d laughs

Even with guidelines, there will be some flexibility, because it never seems to fail that everytime we try to put G-d in a box, He is standing there handing us the last nail. That is not to be critical of having some guidelines, but rather to understand the reasoning for them. More than anything else, they are there for the protection of all parties involved.

Blessings,
 
I totally agree with Nathan's advice to the single ladies....if the guy will not get his wife involved you should not get involved with him. I have my wife talk by phone with the woman before I ever go meet her. Just remember ladies...he will treat you like he treats his wife.....
The time table seems abit long to me....but I think it depends on your age. At 41 I would hope I am more stable then at 21. I married my wife 8 months after I first met her I was 24 at that time and she is a wonderful wife. Its one of those things thats different in each situation...but in the past we have known fairly quick that a certain woman would not work for us.

Mr. kscouple
 
Not entirely sure how to word this, i just hope it makes sense.

I don't think a man should be expecting the same level of submission and deferment from a woman he is courting that he would expect from his wife. To do this is to ask her to let her guard down and trust you, which is woefully unfair expectation to have of someone you are not married to and responsible for. You haven't earned it yet nor should you have a right to it from a single woman, it's too easily abused. Thats her protection, if you go knocking holes in it and reduce her ability to think independently, especially regarding her own future you have to take responsibility for the outcome. Now matter how sure you might be that you will marry her and that it will all work out.

I know a lot of men are super concerned about that and want to see proof before making a commitment but i think being able to demonstrate an academic understanding of the need for and validity of the patriarchal order, this should be enough. Better to have a woman that submits out of love rather than manipulation. I guess it's hard to explain to a man but if you put your trust in someone and defer to their judgment, when you stop bringing up your doubts and concerns and allow a man to take charge it's liable to make you very vulnerable. You don't think the same way you would before, if you put on that spirit during what i call the "audition" process it leaves you kinda messed up. It's hard to put things back together again.
 
Melanie said:
Not entirely sure how to word this, i just hope it makes sense.
I don't think a man should be expecting the same level of submission and deferment from a woman he is courting that he would expect from his wife.
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Bingo!

We may not see eye to eye on other issues, but this is one I have to add my amen to.

I would hope our "come and live with us for awhile" approach will do away with some of the angst and unfairness of the vetting process, and will give the prospective bride a look into our day to day lives without having to submit as a wife. I assume that by that point we will have already discussed her suitability, and the next logical step would be to place us in a position to grow into each other. Or maybe not.

Having said that, though, I can't seem to find a "system" that doesn't have the potential for heartbreak in it, any more than choosing a monogamous mate is heartbreak proof. The difference is that in the basic Courting process, we have years of tradition to follow, wheras we who want to expand our families are paving new ground. Your comments on this topic as well as the others is the only outside guide I have in this area.

In this family, submission is given as trust builds and I prove worthy of it, and not because I have some inherent right to it. In fact, I show can very little wisdom when it comes to tools, and without critisism from my wives we would be eating spagetti and tomato sauce 24/7 to pay for my shiny new tractor. I don't want or need total submission.

~Rusty
 
Well-said, Melanie and RA...and I would agree with the assessment. Unfortunately, unless (and even perhaps until) the Ruach/HS speaks to all concerned, there's probably no shortcut to such an important process. Submission to authority, freely-given, is one thing, but trust is something else entirely.


Blessings in Him,

Mark
 
Mark C said:
Well-said, Melanie and RA...and I would agree with the assessment. Unfortunately, unless (and even perhaps until) the Ruach/HS speaks to all concerned, there's probably no shortcut to such an important process. Submission to authority, freely-given, is one thing, but trust is something else entirely.


Blessings in Him,

Mark
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well thats the trick isn't it.

We are all at different levels of spiritual development and each of us has a very individual relationship with God. When you encounter someone whom is supposed to be far more developed and spiritually reliable than yourself, combine that with an expectation of submission. It's very easy to silence the alarm bells going off in your head when someone else tells you that they feel led by God towards an action.

So yeah, as i said above, let the woman concerned trust her relationship with God, submit herself not to the man she is courting but to God and be willing to listen to what God might be telling her.
 
Many plural marriage minded men are also patriarchal and often have a high expectation that their wives will be submissive to them and follow their lead. So of course it is natural to seek these traits in women they are courting. However, there is a line between wanting to see a submissive spirit and expecting a potential wife to put so much faith and trust in a man that she ends up with the rough end of things when he fails to follow through.

A man should not expect a woman to behave like a wife before she is one, he has no right! Centuries ago we had fathers and uncles and what not to look out for women before marriage, now she is expected to be responsible for herself. A man shouldn't be questioning the submissive spirit of a woman and making her feel inferior because she is trying to balance these things with her responsibility to look after herself.
 
I think the best way to get to know each other is to meet first and be friends as a family, spend time together as a family and also one on one with the new lady. One of my mistakes was meeting people and doing all the visiting, plus they were in Latin America and they and Araina couldn't really communicate. after a while the rest of the family seemed like an extra to them. So, I have been learning from my past mistakes. Local (inside the US) meetups make much more sense from that perspective. The only issue is that here it seems to be harder to meet ladies that are ok with poly and some that are way our there and not Christian (deep into BDSM etc) when you meet them. It's not too easy I guess mostly because we want someone with a good heart that is one of God's. .
Why can't society see plural marriage as an option... I have some theories about principalities etc
Things are broken..
 
True Melanie, those are trust things that should be slowly built with time. Now there are also many that may never trust and will probably never allow themselves to have the husband as a leader. I knew one like that. It may be a personality thing.
That's why being friends first is a really good thing.
 
a) c) and d) make perfect sense to me Nathan.

b)There should be a long period of time (say 2 years minimum, in my opinion) for a family to "assimilate" a new wife - no thought should be given to pursuing another wife in that time, barring some clear sign from God, that everybody sees. Family dynamics involving multiple people don't get just aligned perfectly overnight. Giving a new wife plenty of time to be a "new" wife would seem wisdom to me.
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Well that is easy for you to say my youngest is 3 and my twins are 6 this December. They are all at the best age to become comfortable in a family. What if it takes me 2 yrs to find a man and then 2yrs to court that will make my little boys into 10yr olds. Still little but not that little. It will be much harder to be assimilated as you put it. (when I was 11 in foster care I could not make a perantal bond with foster parents. I can see it makes sense why. But I have seen it straight across the bord in varring situations. Every once and a will you see something genuine. But even if the bond is strong it is rarely that of the parent child bond.)

Next speaking as someone who has been courted I want to know if things aren't going to work as soon as possible. If I make a commitment to a man and he hesitates (note that hesitate and cautious good planning aren't the same) It will become very hard for me to form a safe feeling bond with this man. After talking to men (not necessarily romantic) A lot of Godly men marry there long time first wives right away and then search for there second with out the same romantic aroma or time frame.

Now obviously the pushing and rushing thing is no good.

One other thought I was having is. Casual is a BIG deal. Keep it light of course but..... I don't want to make pals with someone when being courted. I want to talk about whether we can or can't get married. All of that would be just getting to know you stuff which is the stuff of pals.

About the scripture on this, hmmm we have quick and a engagement that last 14 years. I get the need for caution but I haven't been with a man in a married way in 4yrs and counting.


My mind is immediately razing with verses that talk about wisdom or how a woman can put her trust in the lord. Yes God is a father to the fatherless and husband to the widow.
Don't split hairs with me on this one ;)
 
I remember a TV documentary of a man with two wives who brought home a prospective bride for his wives to consider. It was a disaster in the making. The wives resented it, and the unfortunate woman didn’t stand a chance with them. After reading one of this forum member’s comments about the brutality of the dreaded “interview” with the wives, we had a family discussion on how we would handle this eventuality. It goes without saying that she would have to be a godly woman before anything else was considered.
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This makes me nervous. Why one might ask.

(someone I met in person and spent much time with him alone him in a group him and immediat family him and wife and just his wife. Just his kids. Just his mom. Just his Brother.....)
I asked a man to marry me after another one (who I didn't think was romantically involved? this has become apparently sketchy He said he wasn't into her but he's a liar as it turns out)
Any way after this one woman was rude. His wife was there. He said Yes (twice) than immediately tried to convict me of sin (which makes a bit of sense if you knew what I had said, not a novel here) Then he left for a drive and his wife said something that hurt me so deeply. She took a jab at my recently divulged past life before Christ. Not an issue needing clearing up like I had done that kind of think in recant years even. Then the husband came back. It sounded like the other woman was interested in dating him (the rude to me one). I was mad at her for what she had said but still I invited the three of them over to watch a movie. They all said yes. I went to the movie rental place several times looking for it. To find out that they had all watched together "the rude one" had rented it to watch with the couple leaving me out. The wife referred to this movie night 3 times each time I mentioned my hurt feelings each time she didn't care till the last I said I was feeling angry, calmly). No this behaviour one could argue who wants a piece of that. Good point. But my pint is that man should be a little more authoritative. He's wives shouldn't be encouraged to behave this way. Second I want a wife on board but I don't want to marry a woman I'm looking to marry a man. I get the package deal like my kids and me. But it is different.
 
Nathan is not referring to a courtship period here. He is saying that if a man has a new wife, he should not be looking for another new wife for at least a couple of years, so that the new wife has a chance to become part of the family before the family is rearranged again. People have courtships at different rates and while in this instance, time is well spent when one is combining families, this is just a guideline for a man to follow when he is thinking about adding to his family.

SweetLissa
 
I totally agree, there must be a while before a man with a new wife adds another. There must be a strong and secure family first and he needs to be willing to spend lots of time with all of his wives / family. If I talked to my first wife about a second less than 2 or 3 years after getting married, she would not have been very happy and I might have been in a-lot of trouble. Now, if then had been friends and knew they could get along already, who knows.. In the bible there is something about spending at least 1 year with a new wife..
Just getting to know someone for 2 to 4 years sounds good in theory but realistically, most married our first wife maybe 6 months to a year after meeting her. I know we have to be cautious but I think if we visit with the new lady often (and extended periods of time), everyone gets along, and have similar goals in life, then there may be a good connection. I know there are people that marry very fast and it works for them, but I want to be sure I (and family) can love her and she can love me (and family). I want it to be a permanent union. I am tired of partial - almost unions and just want to feel there is mutual trust and common major goals.
Now, for having children, I think the 2- 4 guideline is very wise. Children are permanent too and don't deserve a stressful broken family..
So, there must be a adapting- getting to know in person period in my opinion and definitely a stabilizing conforting period before adding any other wife. That takes time..
 
Besides, why would a husband not want peace with his wives.
After all he will be the one in the middle and if there is tension, life would be prety ugly. lol
If Araina was totally against someone I met, she would tell me the reasons and I would have to really pay attention. If I don't head a warning, then I may reap the fruits of my choice. Sometimes others see something we don't.
 
Setteling in befor another covenant that makes sence. Yes and I did read that 1yr perod to. Makes you wonder why any christians are agains more than one wife :)
 
I think it's because of our Roman society traditions. In Roman traditions it was ok to practice serial monogamy, homosexuality, gluttony, pagan "holidays", multi occupations, banckrupt monetary sys, etc. I think we have the same principality behind our society, just a different place and time. Serious Christians did not have their papers in order so they had to do things in hiding, they even worshipped in home churches because regular church gatherings were dangerous. Then they mingled themselves with Rome... That is where things start to go bad for the real faith in my view. It's like mixing something clean with something unclean... It takes much effort, an open heart and especially prayer to come out of her. Ok, I will stop ranting about that.. That can go into another topic...
 
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