before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose..

[DiscussingTheTopic]

15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Isaiah 7:15-16 NIV 2010

Do you think this passage has any applications to

1. Young Children

2. Some of the elderly who start to fall under category 3 as they get older

3. Mentally disabled/impaired/handicapped people

4. Whether or not someone goes to "heaven" or "hell" when they die

 

[nicola]

Re: before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choo

No, I believe that it's speaking of the righteousness of Christ; which was with Him from the beginning.

No offense to the NIV and I understand the negative connotations that go with King James, but compare the 2 translations, do you come up with 2 different meanings, specifically v. 15.

KJV: 15)Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16) For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. Isa. 7:15-16

15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Isaiah 7:15-16 NIV 2010

 

[Anonymous]

Re: before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choo

15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Isaiah 7:15-16 NIV 2010

Do you think this passage has any applications to

1. Young Children

2. Some of the elderly who start to fall under category 3 as they get older

3. Mentally disabled/impaired/handicapped people

4. Whether or not someone goes to "heaven" or "hell" when they die

Hi DiscussingTheTopic,

(1) Yes.

(2) Not really. They've had their chance. They aren't going to blow it when they don't know what they are doing. Their choice to choose good is done and over with by then.

(3) Probably, depending upon whether they know to reject the wrong or choose the right.

(4) Not exactly. This has to do with the knowledge of good and evil, in my opinion.

Nicola thinks it has to do with the righteousness of Christ, but that would suggest then that Jesus didn't innately understand righteousness as God.

"Butter and honey he shall eat until he knows to refuse the evil and choose the good." (Isaiah 7:15)

Butter (actually curdled milk) and honey were the foods given to infants and small children. The implication of this passage is that there is a time at which the human faculties allow them to distinguish between good and evil. This age would be certainly greater than about five years of age for most humans, which is about when the higher brain functions develop, giving them the ability to understand such differences. Prior to that time, good and evil are abstractions--they have no real meaning for little children, and the little children are wholly innocent in their hearts and minds.

For that reason, I answered (1) with a yes. Little children don't go to hell if they die without repentance, because there is nothing for them to repent from. They don't even understand sin at that point. In fact, earlier in Scripture, God only held the ADULT Israelites liable for the sin of complaining against God and wanting to turn back to Egypt. He caused all the adults, 20 years of age and older, to die in the wilderness for their sins, but the "little ones" of 19 years and younger were allowed to go to the Promised Land.

It is my belief that there is no distinct age at which one has the knowledge of good and evil and is responsible for it before God. It begins sometime in early childhood, around 5-7 years of age for most people perhaps, and extends as late as 19 for others. At 20, God cuts it off, offering no excuse to adults who have certainly reached that knowledge by then. (I imagine that the mentally-handicapped would not be treated as adults if they could not think as adults.)

Let me know your thoughts on this...


John for Christ

 

[nicola]

Re: before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choo

John for Christ,

You bring up a good point about children eating milk and butter back then, however, I do believe that this passage is stating that Christ had righteousness when He was an infant. As far as the age of accountability, it's 12. That's why we see Christ in the temple at age 12, tending to His Father's business. That is the age that our parents are no longer responsible for our actions.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

Re: before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choo

John for Christ,

You bring up a good point about children eating milk and butter back then, however, I do believe that this passage is stating that Christ had righteousness when He was an infant. As far as the age of accountability, it's 12. That's why we see Christ in the temple at age 12, tending to His Father's business. That is the age that our parents are no longer responsible for our actions.

What about one day before someone turns 12?

Could it be possible that the age is different for different people?

(Did you just mean 12 years as the typical quantity?)

 

[NVIII]

I would like to revive this thread because I am searching for this answer today. What is the "age of accountability" mentioned in the Bible, at which point a male offspring is responsible for his own actions and no longer subject to or covered by the authority of his father? Does anyone have insight in this matter? Is it a number of years or the determination of the father?

I'm currently digging into Hebrew and other ancient traditions looking for a consistent answer and some basis. Hoping some here have already found it.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Ted Weiland at Mission to Israel ministries has addressed it.

Who is accountable?

Here is a link.

 

[NVIII]

Thanks, @Joleneakamama. Seems to be age 20. Also seems to me that fathers must have been picking wives for their sons who were less than 20, the sons worked for their fathers, and the fathers interpreted the law for their sons and were held accountable for their actions, and that once a man passed that threshold he would take wives for himself and work for himself and interpret the Law for himself and his family and be held accountable for his own actions and that of his family. If that's the case, it helps clear a few things up in my mind.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I would like to revive this thread because I am searching for this answer today. What is the "age of accountability" mentioned in the Bible, at which point a male offspring is responsible for his own actions and no longer subject to or covered by the authority of his father? Does anyone have insight in this matter? Is it a number of years or the determination of the father?

I'm currently digging into Hebrew and other ancient traditions looking for a consistent answer and some basis. Hoping some here have already found it.

I believe this is what “leaves his father and mother” means. That’s when a man takes on full “citizenship” as it were. I don’t have any proof of this though.

 

[NVIII]

I believe this is what “leaves his father and mother” means. That’s when a man takes on full “citizenship” as it were. I don’t have any proof of this though.

I always believed that, too. It's the only thing that made sense, and up until recently the whole "age of accountability" was just one of those tiny details that get glossed over. I still think it's true, but maybe more...nuanced. I got more digging to do. Some "why"s to ask.