Meat Biblical Friendships for Married Couples

[HomesteadWife]

This is a topic which I've has been on my heart a lot lately. It is something which my husband and I are trying to find our own balance on based on biblical teachings.

Since I didnt find a topic thread which seemed to address this topic in the depth I was looking for I decided to start a thread myself. I'd love to hear how other couples believe and balance. This is multifaceted, so I will try to give the discussion some structure and background to start off.

In the forum and based on my biblical understanding it is clearly the belief that married men and women should not have close friendships with married individuals of the opposite gender, and women should not have close friendships with ANY men outside of their husbands once married.

That being said I've run into a few different opinions from those who believe in patriarchy.
1. That husbands aren't meant to be their wives 'best friend'. That they are in a leadership position which would lose its balance if that happened (Just as parents should not attempt to be a young child's friend). That does not mean that they can't have a close friendly relationship, just that there are boundaries on both sides of the dynamic.
2. There is the camp (Debi Pearl is a good example of) who believe that women in general are not supposed to have 'Close best friends' outside of marriage. This belief is based on the fact that nowadays so much emotional energy is put out by women to retain close friends and social activities that it women no longer perform their primary biblical purpose. That being caring for and staying connected with your husband, children, and your house. There is also the belief from this camp that saying (edit* anything that can be perceived as negative) of your husband to someone outside of the household is wrong ( unless seeking counsel from an older woman on how to improve YOUR behavior towards him.)

I believe that community and friendships have value placed on them biblically. Thus why polygyny would be a good option to maintain a close woman friend without it being outside the home. Though this would call into question of how to not complain to each other about a husband between the wives balance could be maintained.

When I say close/best friends I am meaning the type of relationship where you tell one another everything, have a lot of emotional energy exchanged, and a lot of time and brain focus revolves around this other person/communicating with them. I have had relationships with close female friends that fall into this category prior to marriage. I've not really had or been able to maintain this type of friendship on a personal level since I began my dating/married relationship with my husband. My focus has been putting emotional time and energy into having the strongest relationship I can with him.

Some questions I am still finding answers for on this are:

How is friendship addressed in the bible?

Is it meant to be different for men and women ( in friendships with the same sex)?

As a woman, How much should you look to female friends outside of marriage (especially if it comes to saying something that could be viewed as negative about your husband, his decisions, or how he chooses to lead the family)?
Followup on this: What is Allowable about your husband and family to talk about with other women? It seems like sharing concerns, fears, even day to day life could be perceived as negative or judge mental (even with no intention of being so) Sometimes a deep discussion about things if they are troubling or concerning can bring clarity and hope. There are definitely things that should only be taken to your husband. But this can be an issue if he is your only emotional outlet for these things. It can quickly become a wedge.

How does this above principle apply to men and their friendships with other men?

Where is the balance for women on friends and community if your husband is your leader(not meant to be your best friend), and you aren't supposed to have close female friends as they take energy away from your husband and family?

I could go on, but as I'm already starting to approach a @Keith Martin length of post I will just end here for now.

I'd love to hear peoples thoughts and input on this!

 

[Joleneakamama]

Interesting topic!

How is friendship addressed in the bible?

Greater love hath no man then this, that a man lay down his life for his friend.
It says man there. In my experience women can get wrapped up in trying to help someone....and sacrifice their family in the process of not even actually helping.

Is it meant to be different for men and women ( in friendships with the same sex)?

It has to be different, because men and women ARE very different. Men don't do "friends" with women unless neither finds the other attractive. It is best as a married woman to just avoid building a friendship or even working rekationship with other men.....and unmarried women need to get this same concept through their heads. Men DO NOT "DO" FRIENDS WITH WOMEN!
There will be a deeper level of interest unless there is ZERO attraction.

How much should you look to female friends outside of marriage (especially if it comes to saying something that could be viewed as negative about your husband, his decisions, or how he chooses to lead the family)?

I never let myself look out for emotional support outside of my marriage, or say things that were negative or critical to someone who was an outsider.

Where is the balance for women on friends and community if your husband is your leader(not meant to be your best friend), and you aren't supposed to have close female friends as they take energy away from your husband and family?

I expect that may be different for different families/husbands. It's up to the man to decide if something that takes time is a benefit or detrimental to the family.


I never had many friends. One aspect of polygyny that appealed to me was being able to build an intimate/share stuff kind of friendship with someone who wouldn't move away or be too invested in her own family to have time for me. That is pretty awesome!
It lets me learn how to be a good and supportive friend....and apply that golden rule in house, and with someone commited to the same man/family. I think it is the ideal way to have a friend while married. It certainly fills a void that wives and moms frequently have....and is healthy and normal (no matter what judgy ignorant Christians might think!)

This went around the internet. I just couldn't help but think....there is a family structure that meets these needs! Lol



One for the gals...
In an evening class at Stanford University the last lecture was on the mind-body connection - the relationship between stress and disease. The speaker (head of psychiatry at Stanford) said, among other things, that one of the best things that a man could do for his health is to be married to a woman; whereas for a woman, one of the best things she could do for her health was to nurture her relationships with her girlfriends.
At first everyone laughed, but he was serious. Women connect with each other differently and provide support systems that help each other to deal with stress and difficult life experiences. Physically this quality "girlfriend time" helps us to create more serotonin - a neurotransmitter that helps combat depression and can create a general feeling of well being. Women share feelings whereas men often form relationships around activities. We share from our souls with our sisters/mothers, and evidently that is VERY GOOD for our health. He said that spending time with a friend is just as important to our general health as jogging or working out at a gym.
There's a tendency to think that when we are "exercising" we are doing something good for our bodies; but when we are hanging out with friends, we are wasting our time and should be more productively engaged? Not true. In fact, he said that failure to create and maintain quality personal relationships with other humans is as dangerous to our physical health as smoking! So every time you hang out to schmooze with a gal pal, just pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself for doing something good for your health! We are indeed very, very blessed! So let's toast to our friendship with our girlfriends (incl grandmas, sisters, mothers, nieces, cousins, aunties... ). Evidently it's very good for our health.
Forward this to all your girlfriends to stay in touch, just like I just did! Thanks to all the girls in my life who have helped me stay healthy, happy, and feeling very loved.

 

[NBTX11]

Men don't do "friends" with women unless neither finds the other attractive.

Conversely, if a man doesn't find a woman physically appealing or attractive, I think he can "just be friends" with a woman, and it not lead anywhere. If a man isn't attracted, then he isn't going to want a physical relationship. Maybe there's exceptions, but I can't think of any right now. Men go off sight, and the sight of her is unattractive to him, he can be friends all day with her and have no desire to take it any further.

 

[FollowingHim]

Men DO NOT "DO" FRIENDS WITH WOMEN!
There will be a deeper level of interest unless there is ZERO attraction.

This is true. Most would not think it through enough to recognise it, and if they did wouldn't admit it. But it really is fundamentally true.

And that means neither a man nor a woman should pursue close friendships with the opposite gender outside marriage (other than a man scoping out a woman as an additional wife).

one of the best things that a man could do for his health is to be married to a woman; whereas for a woman, one of the best things she could do for her health was to nurture her relationships with her girlfriends.

Women are good at psychological / emotional support. Men are not. Both men and women need emotional support from women.

But men and women have different needs. Women need to talk and be listened to. While men need physical intimacy - not just sex, just being together. Men don't need to talk to each other much - a great day with a friend can be spent stalking animals in complete silence. And they don't need to talk to their wife much either to receive emotional support - but they want to be close to her, closer than they can be with a man.

In both cases these needs can be best met by a woman. Only a woman will relate well enough to another woman to have the conversations she craves - a man can try but is a poor substitute. And only a woman can provide what a man needs also - male friendships are insufficiently intimate (again, a man may try but would be a poor substitute...).

 

[Keith Martin]

I could go on, but as I'm already starting to approach a @Keith Martin length of post I will just end here for now.

Thank you for giving me a laugh right before going to bed. Because of that, though, and having too many irons in the fire right now, I don't have the time to respond with an @Keith Martin-length post, but I do have a couple thoughts:

That husbands aren't meant to be their wives 'best friend'.

Amen, and for more reasons than you mentioned, the primary one being that it is female nature to seek to be BFFs with their husbands from a desire to create mutual submission.

who believe that women in general are not supposed to have 'Close best friends' outside of marriage.

Generally, I also believe this is for the best, because female besties outside the marriage these days tend to be women who stand ready at all moments to sabotage one's marriage if given the chance, and this tendency even exists in lots of married women. But, if one is alert for this and committed to predominant distancing should that snake rear its ugly head, close female friends for wives can be accomplished. This is something my wife has become expert at in the last decade and now has a visceral dislike of even former childhood friends who promote marital disloyalty (and I'm not just talking about sexual disloyalty).

Men don't do "friends" with women unless neither finds the other attractive.

Amen, ma'am!

I used to try to have friendships with married women, but unless those relationships are transactional, such as working on a very public project together, or are structured as part of the pro bono counseling I do, I avoid separate friendship-type relationships with all married women and most all unmarried women these days -- and the only unmarried women I'll sustain friendships with are women I'd be willing to wife up, because otherwise it's only female nature to nudge the friendship in the direction of me becoming some kind of Partial Husband (all of which, even the affair/sexual kind, are chump territory for men). I should add that the moment a woman who isn't also an active friend of Kristin's gives me any reason to believe that she would look down on me as potential husband material, I now immediately phase out the friendship because of that criteria of being willing to marry a woman. There is no way I'm ever again going to be willing to even consider marrying a woman who makes the mistake of thinking I'm not good enough for her.

 

[Keith Martin]

Conversely, if a man doesn't find a woman physically appealing or attractive, I think he can "just be friends" with a woman, and it not lead anywhere. If a man isn't attracted, then he isn't going to want a physical relationship. Maybe there's exceptions, but I can't think of any right now. Men go off sight, and the sight of her is unattractive to him, he can be friends all day with her and have no desire to take it any further.

Yeah -- and I wouldn't have said this as recently as any time further back than a year or so ago -- but, really, as a man, isn't the set of women one doesn't consider at all alluring a pretty small subset of women? And, therefore, what's the point of being friends with a woman in most cases? Most of the women with whom I come in contact through Biblical Families, I only know them in the context of their husbands. One of my best female friends ever is here, but that really represents the exception to the rule, and -- while I can't imagine it ever happening -- I would marry her in a heartbeat if she weren't married -- so it's probably best that it's not an in-person friendship, I guess.

It's just in our male nature to participate in increasing intimacy with women if the opportunities arise. I'm known for great self-restraint, but I think I'd never assume I couldn't end up becoming attracted in a way that would surprise me, so I just avoid getting to know women that well if I wouldn't be willing to marry them.

 

[steve]

Men DO NOT "DO" FRIENDS WITH WOMEN!

Define “DO”.

 

[julieb]

Where is the balance for women on friends and community if your husband is your leader(not meant to be your best friend), and you aren't supposed to have close female friends as they take energy away from your husband and family?

I expect that may be different for different families/husbands. It's up to the man to decide if something that takes time is a benefit or detrimental to the family.

I think this is wisdom. There are many things that can take time away from our responsibilities as a wife and mother. The man must be aware of this and set boundaries for his wife if she is not doing it well herself. Female friendships are important for sure, but as with all things, there are boundaries that need to be established concerning them.

My experience is that I find that married women don't spend enough time cultivating, at least a few, female relationships in their lives. I know there are seasons for us all but making time to reach out to another lady is, as the article stated, "good for our health." Also, for a first wife, it is a good exercise in learning to relate well to a possible second wife.

 

[steve]

Can a husband and wife be best friends?
I think so, if it doesn’t interfere with the authority structure, which it very well might.

As far as a woman having a friendship with a male, if she has appreciation for his spirituality it can easily become spiritual adultery.
If she has a deep friendship with another man, it can sadly become emotional adultery.
Don’t ask me how I know.

 

[NBTX11]

Don’t ask me how I know.

How do you know?

 

[steve]

How do you know?

You don’t follow directions any better than I do.

 

[HomesteadWife]

How do you know?

You know the number one rule of fight club.....

 

[Keith Martin]

How do you know?

When the Zen Trucker writes something like that, it's usually best to just honor it!

 

[windblown]

This is a topic which I've has been on my heart a lot lately. It is something which my husband and I are trying to find our own balance on based on biblical teachings.

Since I didnt find a topic thread which seemed to address this topic in the depth I was looking for I decided to start a thread myself. I'd love to hear how other couples believe and balance. This is multifaceted, so I will try to give the discussion some structure and background to start off.

In the forum and based on my biblical understanding it is clearly the belief that married men and women should not have close friendships with married individuals of the opposite gender, and women should not have close friendships with ANY men outside of their husbands once married.

That being said I've run into a few different opinions from those who believe in patriarchy.
1. That husbands aren't meant to be their wives 'best friend'. That they are in a leadership position which would lose its balance if that happened (Just as parents should not attempt to be a young child's friend). That does not mean that they can't have a close friendly relationship, just that there are boundaries on both sides of the dynamic.
2. There is the camp (Debi Pearl is a good example of) who believe that women in general are not supposed to have 'Close best friends' outside of marriage. This belief is based on the fact that nowadays so much emotional energy is put out by women to retain close friends and social activities that it women no longer perform their primary biblical purpose. That being caring for and staying connected with your husband, children, and your house. There is also the belief from this camp that saying (edit* anything that can be perceived as negative) of your husband to someone outside of the household is wrong ( unless seeking counsel from an older woman on how to improve YOUR behavior towards him.)

I believe that community and friendships have value placed on them biblically. Thus why polygyny would be a good option to maintain a close woman friend without it being outside the home. Though this would call into question of how to not complain to each other about a husband between the wives balance could be maintained.

When I say close/best friends I am meaning the type of relationship where you tell one another everything, have a lot of emotional energy exchanged, and a lot of time and brain focus revolves around this other person/communicating with them. I have had relationships with close female friends that fall into this category prior to marriage. I've not really had or been able to maintain this type of friendship on a personal level since I began my dating/married relationship with my husband. My focus has been putting emotional time and energy into having the strongest relationship I can with him.

Some questions I am still finding answers for on this are:

How is friendship addressed in the bible?

Is it meant to be different for men and women ( in friendships with the same sex)?

As a woman, How much should you look to female friends outside of marriage (especially if it comes to saying something that could be viewed as negative about your husband, his decisions, or how he chooses to lead the family)?
Followup on this: What is Allowable about your husband and family to talk about with other women? It seems like sharing concerns, fears, even day to day life could be perceived as negative or judge mental (even with no intention of being so) Sometimes a deep discussion about things if they are troubling or concerning can bring clarity and hope. There are definitely things that should only be taken to your husband. But this can be an issue if he is your only emotional outlet for these things. It can quickly become a wedge.

How does this above principle apply to men and their friendships with other men?

Where is the balance for women on friends and community if your husband is your leader(not meant to be your best friend), and you aren't supposed to have close female friends as they take energy away from your husband and family?

I could go on, but as I'm already starting to approach a @Keith Martin length of post I will just end here for now.

I'd love to hear peoples thoughts and input on this!

I have one friend who I see a couple times a month. I take the children over to her house on an evening when both of our husbands are working. The kids run wild and leave us alone to chat over cups of coffee. We share a meal together. It is so uplifting for both of us. Her friendship was a pleasant surprise since I didn’t realize how much I needed one. I’ve always been a (wannabe) loner. Usually our conversation happily revolves around the kids, cooking, etc. But occasionally we talk about the hard stuff, marriage, etc. I even told her about poly and she didn’t bat an eye. I think she’s an exceptional wife, and I am consistently convicted and encouraged to be better when I’m around her. That’s the biggest indication to me that it’s a healthy relationship.