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Meat Can it get worse than Sodom and Gomorrah?

Mark C

Mark C

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The comment has been attributed to Billy Graham (actually, his wife) that, "If the Lord God of Heaven does not JUDGE the United States of America, He will owe a sincere apology to Sodom and Gomorrah!"

We tend to think that when it comes to depravity, or "iniquity" - it just doesn't get any worse.

But I point out in this week's teaching/midrash that just maybe what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah was actually NOT a "Biblical climax" of, whatever-that-word-means.

Why? Remember that Abram (before he was renamed Abraham) was told, "know of a certainty" that your seed will be strangers in a land that is not theirs; ultimately slaves, and that, four centuries later, "I will judge that nation," He said, and take them into the land He promised.

Why not sooner? Because "the iniquity [Hebrew word 'avon'] of the Amorites is not yet full."

But this same guy SAW the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in his own lifetime thereafter!

Shouldn't that tell us something?

The answer is, "Because..." - it follows that:

hebrewnationonline.com

Mark Call – Parsha “Ekev” teaching from Shabbat Shalom Mesa

Sometimes the Torah portion reading almost seems like it could have come from today’s news. Other times, we know the message applies, but we have to search a bit to make what later often turn…
hebrewnationonline.com hebrewnationonline.com


 
Mark C said:
The comment has been attributed to Billy Graham (actually, his wife) that, "If the Lord God of Heaven does not JUDGE the United States of America, He will owe a sincere apology to Sodom and Gomorrah!"

We tend to think that when it comes to depravity, or "iniquity" - it just doesn't get any worse.

But I point out in this week's teaching/midrash that just maybe what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah was actually NOT a "Biblical climax" of, whatever-that-word-means.

Why? Remember that Abram (before he was renamed Abraham) was told, "know of a certainty" that your seed will be strangers in a land that is not theirs; ultimately slaves, and that, four centuries later, "I will judge that nation," He said, and take them into the land He promised.

Why not sooner? Because "the iniquity [Hebrew word 'avon'] of the Amorites is not yet full."

But this same guy SAW the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in his own lifetime thereafter!

Shouldn't that tell us something?

The answer is, "Because..." - it follows that:

hebrewnationonline.com

Mark Call – Parsha “Ekev” teaching from Shabbat Shalom Mesa

Sometimes the Torah portion reading almost seems like it could have come from today’s news. Other times, we know the message applies, but we have to search a bit to make what later often turn…
hebrewnationonline.com hebrewnationonline.com


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Something important is missing.

America still has more righteous population, both in absolute and relarive number than Sodom and Gomorrah.

This could be possible explanation why judgement hasn't arrived. There is still some light and salt.
 
MemeFan said:
Something important is missing.

America still has more righteous population, both in absolute and relarive number than Sodom and Gomorrah.

This could be possible explanation why judgement hasn't arrived. There is still some light and salt.
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By God's grace, I hope that we will soon have more righteous population than we have now.

Lot seems to have been the only righteous man (probably only righteous person) in Sodom.

Also, I believe the judgement has begun, but hope that we may still avoid utter and complete annihilation.

It's Romans 1 playing out. Having forsaken the Lord, He has given (many or most) Americans (and other Westerners) over to a deranged mind.

The fact that we are ruled by wicked, corrupt, and senile leaders (including women and children) is evidence of judgement.
 
Would a depopulation from 8 to 2 billion, or 350 million to 70 million qualify as judgment? Is that why the gates were opened for illegal immigration? Seems like a multi faceted (3d chest) agenda being implemented.
Ga guide stones mentioned half a billion instead, time will tell. Seems the legal notice posting was removed now that we are in exe phase?
 
cubanito said:
Would a depopulation from 8 to 2 billion, or 350 million to 70 million qualify as judgment? Is that why the gates were opened for illegal immigration? Seems like a multi faceted (3d chest) agenda being implemented.
Ga guide stones mentioned half a billion instead, time will tell. Seems the legal notice posting was removed now that we are in exe phase?
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We are just reaping what we’ve been sowing, in my opinion.
The actual result of the judgement for S and G was fire and brimstone.
 
MemeFan said:
Won't happen.

No humanity = Satan's victory.

Satan failed with flood and mRNA. He won't be allowed this victory, only sometimes illusion of victory.
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I'm not talking about the complete annilation of humanity. I don't believe that will happen. I am talking about the downfall and destruction of Western Civilization and more specifically the Anglophone world (USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ).

If the USA falls into something similar to Somalia, that would be pretty serious. If Australia, and NZ became Chinese colonies, that would be pretty serious.

A nuclear war with a few hundred million deaths would be pretty serious.

I'm actually starting to wonder if the Post Millennial view of eschatology might actually be correct (which could still include temporary ups and downs and possibly the downfall of the West).
 
MemeFan said:
America still has more righteous population, both in absolute and relative number than Sodom and Gomorrah.
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The comparison is inexact. Sodom, and Gomorrah, were both CITIES. The parallels would thus be San Francisco, or the District of Criminals. ("Be afraid, be very afraid," to be caught there. ;) )

But that was not the point of the comparison, or the larger teaching. What IS it about "AmeriKa" (or the western world) that does not fit the answer to the question, "is the depravity complete?" (Just what innovations can follow sex slavery, wholesale theft, mass bioweapon deployment, and cutting the genitalia off pre-pubescent children? Anyone?)

It was a LAND that was conquered and purged, for reasons that should be obvious, but seem to escape the vast majority in want of that purging.*

Abram was told it was going to be a long time until that "iniquity was full." And yet Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed in his sight.

How much more so the modern parallels?



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* Elsewhere, the term "vomited out" those inhabitants is used.
 
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cubanito said:
Would a depopulation from 8 to 2 billion, or 350 million to 70 million qualify as judgment?
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Would. But you are too obsessed with their plans.

This is biggest political trend and it's unstopabble:

Fragmentation

Following article by Gary North shows what our elites see as their greatest threat: https://www.garynorth.com/public/22345.cfm So Putin is globalist as most of our ruling class. He is for more world integration and state participation in all parts of society. What makes him seen as a...
biblicalfamilies.org biblicalfamilies.org

They may be able to lock some parts of Earth, but they won't be able to lock at least half. Just make sure to run away on time from locked parts. It would time several years to lock all exits. It was so in Eastern Europe when Communists arrived.
cubanito said:
Is that why the gates were opened for illegal immigration?
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To destroy local culture and tradition so that locals become part of homogenous mass. Also, increasing diversity lowers social trust which weakens "social fabric" which raises crime which they hope to use as excuse for police state.
cubanito said:
Ga guide stones mentioned half a billion instead, time will tell. Seems the legal notice posting was removed now that we are in exe phase?
Click to expand...
That is plan, but peple mostly fail in their plans. It was same plan as before. They spend most of time falling implementation, but they are very persistent so it slowly moves forward.

Bartato said:
I'm not talking about the complete annilation of humanity. I don't believe that will happen. I am talking about the downfall and destruction of Western Civilization and more specifically the Anglophone world (USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ).

If the USA falls into something similar to Somalia, that would be pretty serious. If Australia, and NZ became Chinese colonies, that would be pretty serious.
Click to expand...
Western supremacy is historical abberation. Just based on population India and China should be ahead. We are returning to historical norms.

West got lucky with geography, religion and culture. Goegraphy prevented political unification, culture includes stuff like science and improvement mentality (check historian Anton Howes) and religion is obvious.
 
Mark C said:
The comparison is inexact. Sodom, and Gomorrah, were both CITIES. The parallels would thus be San Francisco, or the District of Criminals. ("Be afraid, be very afraid," to be caught there. ;) )

But that was not the point of the comparison, or the larger teaching. What IS it about "AmeriKa" (or the western world) that does not fit the answer to the question, "is the depravity complete?" (Just what innovations can follow sex slavery, wholesale theft, mass bioweapon deployment, and cutting the genitalia off pre-pubescent children? Anyone?)

It was a LAND that was conquered and purged, for reasons that should be obvious, but seem to escape the vast majority in want of that purging.*

Abram was told it was going to be a long time until that "iniquity was full." And yet Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed in his sight.

How much more so the modern parallels?



-------------------------
* Elsewhere, the term "vomited out" those inhabitants is used.
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More is required of the one who has much. Americans have the whole whole Bible. We have the witness of the Apostles. We have the Torah. We have the prophets. We have the words of Christ. We have the empty tomb. We have the promise of salvation for those who repent and believe. We have the testimony of all of history.

We sin against all that truth.
 
MemeFan said:
Would. But you are too obsessed with their plans.

This is biggest political trend and it's unstopabble:

Fragmentation

Following article by Gary North shows what our elites see as their greatest threat: https://www.garynorth.com/public/22345.cfm So Putin is globalist as most of our ruling class. He is for more world integration and state participation in all parts of society. What makes him seen as a...
biblicalfamilies.org biblicalfamilies.org

They may be able to lock some parts of Earth, but they won't be able to lock at least half. Just make sure to run away on time from locked parts. It would time several years to lock all exits. It was so in Eastern Europe when Communists arrived.

To destroy local culture and tradition so that locals become part of homogenous mass. Also, increasing diversity lowers social trust which weakens "social fabric" which raises crime which they hope to use as excuse for police state.

That is plan, but peple mostly fail in their plans. It was same plan as before. They spend most of time falling implementation, but they are very persistent so it slowly moves forward.


Western supremacy is historical abberation. Just based on population India and China should be ahead. We are returning to historical norms.

West got lucky with geography, religion and culture. Goegraphy prevented political unification, culture includes stuff like science and improvement mentality (check historian Anton Howes) and religion is obvious.
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Obsession to some, situational awareness to others. I choose situational awareness and for now, hedging risk in two different regions.
I was surprised even the most corrupt countries went into total lockstep with the world agenda, they got paid billions to betray / democide their own people. They got away with last one, now they can continue moving forward. There's no political super heroes, people have to gain their own situational awareness. The worse abuse seems to be in crown jurisdictions. I guess they figured it's their sovereign property to do as they will.
 
MemeFan said:
West got lucky with geography, religion and culture.
Click to expand...
The West also has shot its own self in the foot, going all the way back to when the 6th-century BC Greek philosophers were putting all this in motion.
 
MemeFan said:
West got lucky with geography, religion and culture.
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Since when is it "luck" to declare that we once understood "self-evident Truths," like - there is a Creator, He made us, and the Rights we have come from Him?

We were blessed, as promised, while even a modicum of that understanding held sway, and are now seeing what happens, again as promised, when hatred of Him replaces obedience.
 
Mark C said:
Since when is it "luck" to declare that we once understood "self-evident Truths," like - there is a Creator, He made us, and the Rights we have come from Him?

We were blessed, as promised, while even a modicum of that understanding held sway, and are now seeing what happens, again as promised, when hatred of Him replaces obedience.
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Because Christianity could spread more easily and be more received more better in other regions. I don't see reason why Europe had to be region "strongest" in faith.

And because nobody till bloody EU could unify whole continent. No new technology could be in practice forbidden. Inventor would just move. Option unavailable in Ottoman Empire and China. Sultan and Emperor could forbid new technology and execute inventor. Death end for new technologies.

Keith Martin said:
The West also has shot its own self in the foot, going all the way back to when the 6th-century BC Greek philosophers were putting all this in motion.
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Only West got idea of totalitarian ideologies. Is this connected with gnosticism? Maybe secularization has created bunch of gnostics who accepted such ideologies? According to James Lindsay person can accept ideas of gnosticism without being aware of it.

cubanito said:
I was surprised even the most corrupt countries went into total lockstep with the world agenda, they got paid billions to betray / democide their own people. They got away with last one, now they can continue moving forward.
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Remains to be seen. Arm of justice is regularly slow, but long reaching.

Their failure to normalize covid passports will have very negative consenquences for them. They vaxxed many people against modern medicine and destroyed credibility of "experts". Search for truth will destroy many of their lies and futhrer destroy their control systems.
 
MemeFan said:
It depends. I can't predict future.
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I don't claim to 'predict' it. But I can READ it, and 'connect-the-dots'.

Anything defined by the "Almighty State" as 'commerce' (see US precedents claiming jurisdiction of almost all such, since at least Wickard v Fiburn after the US shift to fascism) is headed directly to the Mark of the Beast. The nexus is the fake, fiat, anti-constitutional 'US dollar' that is defined by Scripture as "abomination." It clearly indicates a far different "choice of law" than His, or the English 'common law'.)

Big Brother Beast WILL, because they already ARE, claim 'jurisdiction' of any and all "transactions," or "businesses," or "buying and selling" which involves his substitute for what the Bible calls "money" (ie, qesef in the Hebrew, the same word means 'silver'.)

To 'come out of her,' and deal honestly, according to His Word, with 'honest weights' of silver is NOT a panacea. But it IS a pre-requisite.


Edit: fixed a phrase left out of an incomplete sentence... ;)
 
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Mark C said:
I don't claim to 'predict' it. But I can READ it, and 'connect-the-dots'.

Anything defined by the "Almighty State" as 'commerce' (see US precedents claiming jurisdiction of almost all such, since at least Wickard v Fiburn after the US shift to fascism.) The nexus is the fake, fiat, anti-constitutional 'US dollar' that is defined by Scripture as "abomination." It clearly indicates a far different "choice of law" than His, or the English 'common law'.)

Big Brother Beast WILL, because they already ARE, claim 'jurisdiction' of any and all "transactions," or "businesses," or "buying and selling" which involves his substitute for what the Bible calls "money" (ie, qesef in the Hebrew, the same word means 'silver'.)

To 'come out of her,' and deal honestly, according to His Word, with 'honest weights' of silver is NOT a panacea. But it IS a pre-requisite.
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Then Big Brother is every state in existence now. They all claim jurisdiction over all commerce. And this was for several decades minimun.
 
The thing about the United States that’s different than sodom and Gomorrah - is there are pockets of God fearing Christians everywhere. Remember the LORD said if there were enough righteous people living in those cities - he would relent on his destruction that was planned.

Therefore, the adversary is no longer forming cities that cater to depravity only. Instead it’s more of a hostage scenario. The cities are being infiltrated so there’s still a decent number of people that follow Lord Jesus in those cities.
 
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