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Meat Children: Balance of 'Not of This World' and Real world exposure.

H

HomesteadWife

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I was wanting to get some thoughts and practical application on this.

What do you think is the right balance of Real world exposure and 'Being in the world but not of it'?

My husband and I are expecting our first child. Since we both come from very dysfunctional family dynamics we are hoping to break those cycles and establish our family with stronger and more positive biblically grounded roots.

On a personal level I came from an extremely sheltered religious background. I felt enormously unprepared and extreme culture shock when I hit the world outside of my family on my own. I appreciate the moral belief system I grew up in, but I'd like for my children to not have struggle like I did as well.

I'd really like to hear how those in the thick of raising their children in today's culture are handling it.

Thanks!
 
We give our children exposure to a wide range of people in our culture - but from the good side of that culture.

What we don't do is either:
  • Keep the children isolated from everyone who doesn't have "perfect" views (encouraging rebellion once they hit teenage years), or
  • Let them interact with everybody and be taught by society to have worldly views.

We try to find the middle ground. This, for us, means:
  • No television. We do watch media content - but do it online, where we can choose exactly what is being watched, and are not surprised by inappropriate advertising, programs, or state/corporate propaganda.
  • Homeschooling (to avoid the destructive influence of the philosophies taught in schools today, and to avoid our children's day-to-day life being dominated by interactions with ungodly children).
  • Giving children many opportunities to meet other people in settings where the majority of the people there are reasonably decent. Ours attend church youth groups / clubs from two different denominations, have regular homeschooling meetups with other Christian families, some attend martial arts training (in a discipline that focusses on the physical not the spiritual), hobby clubs etc.
  • Giving them plenty of opportunities to interact with sensible adults.

We also always tell the children the truth - and make a major point of this. No santa, easter bunnies, tooth fairies - we tell them these are pretend. This means when we tell them something is real, they know we are also serious.

We will also answer any question they ask. If they are mature enough to ask a question, they are mature enough to comprehend the answer to that question - but precisely that question. For instance, I had the following conversation with a 4-year-old (I think)
Child: "How did the baby get in Mummy's tummy?"
Me: "I put it there."
Child: "But how did you put the baby there?"
Me: "How do you think I put the baby in Mummy's tummy?" (honestly, I was stalling for time while I thought of an honest yet age-appropriate answer!)
Child (thinking for a minute): "Through the same hole the baby comes out?"
Me: "Exactly."
Child left completely satisfied with that answer.

Note that in this conversation I gave completely accurate answers to their questions - I didn't make up some sort of silly nonsense (storks, cabbage patches), or refuse to answer and leave them unsatisfied. However, I only answered the actual question - I did not make the opposite mistake of sitting the child down and explaining sex to them. They weren't capable of understanding that - nor should they. They were capable of comprehending the precise answer to the actual question they asked, at just enough level of detail to satisfy their curiosity. Once they were satisfied their question had been answered, my job was done.

Applying that to culture - children will pick up all sorts of things from the culture around them. They will ask about "what does it mean to be gay", "how do you know if you are a boy", and so forth. The natural Christian reaction to such questions is often to launch into a knee-jerk moral lecture on "God says this and everything else is sin". That is usually NOT the right answer - firstly, it's not actually the answer to the question they asked, and secondly it can easily be twisted to sound like "God is a moralising killjoy - so if I don't follow God I can have lots more fun". The correct answer is to think carefully about what question was actually asked, and then to precisely answer that actual question, accurately. I can demonstrate if this is something you'd find helpful.
 
We're not fans of the term, "Homeschooling" as it carries all the baggage of school in the home; it's an unbiblical concept. We didn't turn our home into a school for the kids but rather just walked with them and talked with them as we went through life, using every opportunity to teach the practical aspects for living in this world. God told His people, "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up" (Deut 6:6-7). Real life is the place to teach and train your children about how to live in this world, so read the Bible to your children and explain its application to every aspect of life. We never watched TV however we used a lot of videos and DVD's to fill in where we lacked the knowledge on different subjects. We also had lots of contact with descent families but we never left our kids unattended in the company of other kids. It helps to prevent problems you probably don't want to have to deal with. And by the way, we only have daughters, no sons, so the focus was on preparing them in practical ways for family life.
 
Ten-plus years off-grid here in the Boondocks (a mesa at 9000' in the southern Rockies) - which some have called 'isolated', I'm thankful for it, especially given what's coming - have given us an opportunity to see QUITE a few kids (some now grown, 30's maybe) who grew up "homeschooled". Not polluted by what I call the "publik skool indoctrunahun sinturs."

The distinction is stunning.

"The world" now wants them poisoned in mind and in body, and will not only force-inject but force mutilate them if the parents don't know enough to prevent it.

I object to the term "isolate" - as if not allowing them to be perverted is abuse, rather than what the vast majority of 'the world' intends for them. So, instead, if you intend to "isolate" them from arsenic, hemlock, and the Not-Vaxx, then figure a way to do the same with their precious minds and developing bodies from that intent of the Adversary.
 
I had a similar experience. I was too sheltered from the real world growing up. I've taken a moderate approach with my sons. I'm raising men, not children. They are spoken to and shown real life examples according to their ability to comprehend and process the information. When something comes up in real life, we talk about it. They ask questions all the time, looking for definitions to words. For instance, they asked "what are drugs?"

So we talked about what that word means, to the youngest, he got the most simplistic answer and was satisfied and ran off to play with dogs and swing. The next two got a more measured response with an explanation that some drugs can be helpful and some can be harmful. Like water, if you're thirsty, a big glass of water is a good thing, but what if daddy gave you a bucket of water and that whole bucket of water got into your body?

Boys: "It would kill you"
Me: "yep"

Then the middle boy was satisfied and ran off to swing with his brother. To the oldest, he was specifically asking what Meth was. So I showed him pictures of meth addicts and the destruction it wrought. I told him the substance was not evil, but it was extremely dangerous and easy to get addicted. And it destroys people's lives. And if anybody ever offered him some, he should act like they are pointing a gun at his head and get the heck out of there. All the while showing him the real world consequences of those choices.

We do the same thing when discussing why they aren't allowed to have candy daily. I showed them pictures of diabetics and amputee diabetes patients. The end result is destruction, so it's not wise to walk that path.

Instead of destruction I show them pictures and video of gymnasts doing amazing feats of strength, athletes doing amazing things. And I show with my own example how making healthy decisions gives a better result.
We have age appropriate discussions about sex. We have animals, they see what's happening and know that's what happens to make a baby animal. The older ones are told what's happening and my oldest is being taught about how this is a wonderful thing and meant to be enjoyed to the fullest within the boundaries of marriage. He's being taught now that he will be facing temptations and will need to master himself and control his desires, direct them into a productive outlet until he has a wife. The time to discuss these things is when they aren't painfully awkward and embarrassing.

I teach the Word daily. We have discussions about what God says is right and good.

When we were still attending a local church, my oldest was 10 when he was asked to sing a song that had a doctrinal conflict with what I had taught him. He refused politely to sing the song and sat it out. He challenged me just a few days ago when he saw a book sitting on my end table in the living room. The title was "How Did Polygamy Become A Sin?". He furrowed his brows and said to me, "Daddy, but that's not a sin, why does that book say it is?"

Our philosophy from the start has been to view our children as small, immature humans. Most people in America seem to have a warped vision of what a child is. They view children as dumb, incapable, irresponsible, retarded pets. They are not that at all.

They are humans with all the same emotions, thoughts and feelings. They just have less life experience and understanding. They're literally small adults who lack experience.

So if they are capable of doing something, they are expected to do it. Can the 2 year old carry his plate to the kitchen? (forget about spilling it, that's going to happen) Then he's expected to do so. Can the 4 year old put the plate into the sink? Then it's expected. Can the 11 year old take out the trash and bring the empty can back? Then he's expected to do so. We don't coddle, they're expected to become men. They only become men by practicing. That means they do dangerous things like chop brush with machetes. They put on some protective gear and run a chainsaw. (with me standing near or holding the saw) They drive the pickup truck in the field. They participate in all the life things because their input and help is needed and valuable.

Like a seedling plant is protected from cold winds, and a more mature seedling is put in a cold frame, and exposed to some cold winds and harsh sunlight, so too children need to be protected and sheltered. But we cannot hide them from all the vagaries of life and harshness of the world and expect them to mature into adults who can withstand those realities.

They are stronger than people think. They're more wise than adults give them credit. Give them examples of real world consequences, remove the mystery and allure of sin while showing the consequences of indulgence and intemperance. And they will decide for themselves that they want nothing to do with foolishness.
 
My children are 3rd generation homeschooled. I grew up watching lots of very sheltered christian families destruct when the children got outside the sheltering walls of their domineering parents. It was well intentioned control, but I noticed the same exact cause and effects with all of them.

Child was cloistered and unable to decide for themselves what was right and good. They were kept sheltered and apart from any ability to gather information and make a personal judgement on the morality and goodness. They were instructed to just essentially shut up, listen and obey.

The girls mostly decided they would experience life themselves. They went wild and slept around, got crazy haircuts, tattoos, drank, some of them did drugs. The boys did the same kinds of things.

They had to decide for themselves, they had to experience the freedom to make their own choices. Their parents chose for them and once they were free of that forced choice, they rebelled until they tasted fully the fruits of that freedom. The fruit was bitter indeed.

The ones who didn't rebel were children who grew up "less sheltered" and "more worldly". They were afforded the trust and freedom to make their own choices with guidance and wisdom from their parents. They saw the consequences of walking the paths that looked appealing, and they decided in their own minds that the risk of a bad outcome was not worth the fun and temptation.

I don't have the perspective and wisdom to make a very good judgement on this whole thing. But from my observations. It seems like the best way is to allow enough freedom that children increasingly are given more as they grow and mature. Given the controlled exposure to things that an adult would be exposed to. And be given the first hand exposure to observe the results of intemperance and profligacy.
 
The Revolting Man said:
We probably need to more firmly define what we mean by “exposing them to things” if we’re going to be very useful in this thread.

Exposing them to responsibility is very different than exposing them to the gay agenda.
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I show my sons pictures of trannys trying to indoctrinate children. I ask them what they think. They respond with revulsion. I then quote scripture to em about it.

But yeah, I agree some definitions are in order.
 
The Revolting Man said:
My point exactly. I literally trust my boys with fire but not Netflix.
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EXACTLY!
Mine do not have unfettered access to any media or GOD FORBID the internet. We don't have netflix. I do let them have their own campfires and set up camp out in our woods.
 
NickF said:
My children are 3rd generation homeschooled. I grew up watching lots of very sheltered christian families destruct when the children got outside the sheltering walls of their domineering parents. It was well intentioned control, but I noticed the same exact cause and effects with all of them.

Child was cloistered and unable to decide for themselves what was right and good. They were kept sheltered and apart from any ability to gather information and make a personal judgement on the morality and goodness. They were instructed to just essentially shut up, listen and obey.

The girls mostly decided they would experience life themselves. They went wild and slept around, got crazy haircuts, tattoos, drank, some of them did drugs. The boys did the same kinds of things.

They had to decide for themselves, they had to experience the freedom to make their own choices. Their parents chose for them and once they were free of that forced choice, they rebelled until they tasted fully the fruits of that freedom. The fruit was bitter indeed.

The ones who didn't rebel were children who grew up "less sheltered" and "more worldly". They were afforded the trust and freedom to make their own choices with guidance and wisdom from their parents. They saw the consequences of walking the paths that looked appealing, and they decided in their own minds that the risk of a bad outcome was not worth the fun and temptation.

I don't have the perspective and wisdom to make a very good judgement on this whole thing. But from my observations. It seems like the best way is to allow enough freedom that children increasingly are given more as they grow and mature. Given the controlled exposure to things that an adult would be exposed to. And be given the first hand exposure to observe the results of intemperance and profligacy.
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Off course sheltered children start sinning all time.

From their perspective new exciting world has opened up. They aren't aware of dangers, so they have to learn on their skin.
 
Rumspringa, anyone?
 
I was taught at home by my mom and dad. I was spared all the social pressure and contrary values that go with that environment. Yes, I never fit in with my peers, but honestly I never wanted to.
My folks let us watch TV. They watched it with us and talked about the attitudes and ideas put across in the programing. They used that as a kind of exposure, with less risk.
None of us (5 girls) rebelled or got crazy. We all married and raised families. None divorced ...yet, (all are happily married 15 years or more)

The sis I have that let the most TV in the house has children that fit in the most to this modern world. The three youngest stayed in the modern Mormon culture, but the kids still have a lot of pop culture influence (to me) we quit watching TV 23 years ago and only watch movies....and we try for the better ones. Our children are different. Our guys might tell a dirty joke, or be outspoken about their ideas, but they are hard working and don't drink... much...(wine or cider mostly) and they don't smoke or do drugs. They are respectful and helpful....but they don't lick boots. They know what they believe and why, and will probably never fit into any church.....but will fellowship with believers of all denominations as we do.
They see knowledge as a good thing and like to learn. They have varried skills that range from playing musical instruments to small engine repair to wood turning and flint knapping. They are confident with equipment or firearms. They all love children.


Just decide what you want your child to become, and example that for them as best you can.

I think it's easier to accomplish that goal when they aren't being influenced against your ideals the majority of their waking hours.

Don't be afraid to live according to conscience.
Some may see your children and see potential they feel is wasted in your small community or homeschool enviroment.....I maintain that the potential others see in our children exists because of, and as a direct result of our raising ....NOT in spite of it!

I hope and pray you find the balance in raising your family.....so you enjoy the children you're blessed with.
 
It's not always about limiting what children are exposed to, it's more about teaching them how to handle it and setting a foundation. You can't control the world, if the children have any sort of social life they will naturally be exposed to things or even seek it out.

As an example- when I went to live with my grandmother as a child/teenager, I had absolutely no limits, I could go anywhere I wanted, I could do what I wanted, I could watch anything I wanted. I never smoked or drank, never did drugs, never had sex, despite being completely surrounded by all of it because it wasn't as fun with the freedom to do so. I also had the liberty of seeing how some of those things can destroy lives, without that exposure I could have very well made many of those mistakes.

Now I wouldn't recommend raising a child that way but it's not always the end of the world if a few things get through. With my niece and nephew, they're exposed to a lot being in public schools and online so often. I just remind them to trust their instincts, if they think another kid wearing a cat collar, drinking from a cat bowl and wearing a tail to school is weird, that's because it is! I encourage them to have enough awareness to know when behavior is strange and to stay the hell away from it.
 
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LovesDogs said:
You can't control the world
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That is such an important point to keep in mind as you raise kids. Teaching them how to live in this world without it controlling them is key. And that's not only for kids but adults too. Jesus prayed for His disciples saying, I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth (John 17:15-17).
 
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