I have read reports from such people and they lost significant feeling. This is entirely expected, given the amount of nerve endings that are removed.
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Circumcision
- Thread starter Who is like God?
- Start date
I have read reports from such people and they lost significant feeling. This is entirely expected, given the amount of nerve endings that are removed.
@ZecAustin is my hero! Who I wanna be when I grow up!
And like @Verifyveritas76, I too am trying to catch up on the number of sons... I’m just slightly trailing the majesticly bearded mountain man by one... my 5th son came along last month!
And like my other sons, and myself, and my fathers fathers fathers before them, ...probably all the way back to our father of faith Abraham whom God commanded this thing to... we circumcised our new son on the 8th day as it is written! He took it like a champ and I’m confident he will have many wives and be mighty in battle!
Let it be said of House West, “Do not engage the West Clan in battle, for they are a fierce and brutal people. The men of their clan are so committed to their God that they cut off a piece of their new born sons penises as a Covenant with Him. They are fearlessly dedicated to their God and a people of great strength!” Oh yea! Lol
And like @Verifyveritas76, I too am trying to catch up on the number of sons... I’m just slightly trailing the majesticly bearded mountain man by one... my 5th son came along last month!
And like my other sons, and myself, and my fathers fathers fathers before them, ...probably all the way back to our father of faith Abraham whom God commanded this thing to... we circumcised our new son on the 8th day as it is written!
He took it like a champ and I’m confident he will have many wives and be mighty in battle! Let it be said of House West, “Do not engage the West Clan in battle, for they are a fierce and brutal people. The men of their clan are so committed to their God that they cut off a piece of their new born sons penises as a Covenant with Him. They are fearlessly dedicated to their God and a people of great strength!”
Oh yea! Lol
BOOM!@ZecAustin is my hero! Who I wanna be when I grow up!
And like @Verifyveritas76, I too am trying to catch up on the number of sons... I’m just slightly trailing the majesticly bearded mountain man by one... my 5th son came along last month!
And like my other sons, and myself, and my fathers fathers fathers before them, ...probably all the way back to our father of faith Abraham whom God commanded this thing to... we circumcised our new son on the 8th day as it is written!
Let it be said of House West, “Do not engage the West Clan in battle, for they are a fierce and brutal people. The men of their clan are so committed to their God that they cut off a piece of their new born sons penises as a Covenant with Him. They are fearlessly dedicated to their God and a people of great strength!”
Just curious if those nerve endings developed as the manly parts grew, or were already up and running at birth. Do we have any medical professionals here?
Here is another article worth checking out.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/fo...0tPOlos85xHrZlTwj_ny2ioQrMGRzLmsE0zxm9n_bc0_c
Only three of 113 doctors knew how to properly care for an intact penis. Sad!
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/fo...0tPOlos85xHrZlTwj_ny2ioQrMGRzLmsE0zxm9n_bc0_c
Only three of 113 doctors knew how to properly care for an intact penis. Sad!
My question would be to the poster. Why the restoration and is that even possible? On another subject, husband and I had our son circumcised due to biblical reasons but husband also said that uncircumcised males were prone to develop infections. My son's was completely cut off but my grandson was only done by just a piece. I don't know if Dr's these days are now changing the way they do circumcisions and leaving most of it on. My father who is a pastor never had a circumcision and was adamant that I not get my son circumcised. Of course my husband had the final word as to his son.
Jolene,
I've always understood your doctrine to espouse being part of the true Israel. If so, why no circumcision like a true Israelite, according to Torah?
Curious.
FYI, this poster has not been on the Forum since 2012 and I do not see any possibility of future visits.
That's weird because it was at the top of my feed. Okay, I will be more mindful of the dates.
Sorry about the delay in responding. It has been busy here with pecan harvesting.
As I look at the issue one of the things I noticed was that Circumcision was a token of the covenant, not a matter of law. It is true that they had to be circumcised to eat of the Passover, and it was important. It is still important....but some aspects have been changed.
If you look back to the time of the exodus and wandering in the wilderness you see that Joshua had to circumcise the men before going into the land of promise because they had not done that since leaving Egypt. (Joshua 5:3-4)
In Deut 30:3 Moses prophesied of the children of Israel being gathered again after captivity, and then in verse 6 he prophesied that “God will circumcise thine heart and the hearts of thy descendants to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul that thou mayest live.” This is the mark of the new covenant according to Jer. 31:31-33 and Ezek. 36:24-27.
I found this interesting lamentation/prophesy in Jeremiah 9:23-26
Thus sayeth YHWH, let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: but let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, sayeth YHWH. Behold the days come saith YHWH that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; Egypt and Judah and Edom and the children of Ammon and Moab and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness; for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
Paul wrote many things about circumcision. I particularly like this passage in Col.2:8 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” You can keep reading if you like.
Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant established on better promises. (Heb. 8:6-10) This is why Paul wrote that physical circumcision did not matter, and even went as far as to say in Gal. 5:2 "If ye be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law…..v6 for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love."
He is not a Jew that is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew that is one inwardly: and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men but of God. Rom 2:28-29
Basically most in looking back at history missed that the people who followed Christ quit being identified by their tribe, and all came to be known as Christians eventually, starting at Antioch. Because they missed that, they tend to apply a different standard to people today called Jews then they do to Christians, not making the connection or realizing that the new covenant was with both houses of literal Israel.
YHWH first put His name at Shiloh, then made it desolate. His name was at Jerusalem, but He promised to do the same to Jerusalem. He now dwells in the hearts of His people. The people ARE the new Jerusalem of prophesy, even if many are still confused and looking to a physical city.
Holding onto their tribal identity didn’t matter to these people because they understood what Paul wrote in Gal. 3:29 “If ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.”
If you think about it, those that remained in the synagogues of Judaism could not have been “The called out ones” that made up the ecclesia of YHWH. For those not in Christ and using that old name, the words Jesus spoke about them are still true. They are still the blind leading the blind, teaching for doctrine the commands of men, making the law of YHWH of no effect by their traditions….and their hearts are still far from Him.
To sum it up we believe circumcision is still a token of the new covenant, but the only kind that matters is internal and visible by the fruits of the spirit.
I hope that sufficiently explains our position.
To be clear I do not intend to teach anyone, just explain our understanding of the scriptures that I referenced here.
I have two questions here for @Mojo and anyone pondering this issue.
What do you expect “True Israel” to look like today? And what causes you to have those expectations?
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As I read this and liked it. Is there any scripture to back that position?
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Joleneakamama said: ↑
The people ARE the new Jerusalem of prophesy, even if many are still confused and looking to a physical city.
There is plenty scripture to back up what @Joleneakamama is saying, it all depends on how one interprets the many prophecies in regard to the two houses of Israel, Judah and Israel. And the understanding of the prophecies in regard to the two different Jerusalem'S', one being earthly and one being Heavenly. Which one someone aligns with determines how they see scripture in this regard.
The people ARE the new Jerusalem of prophesy, even if many are still confused and looking to a physical city.
There is plenty scripture to back up what @Joleneakamama is saying, it all depends on how one interprets the many prophecies in regard to the two houses of Israel, Judah and Israel. And the understanding of the prophecies in regard to the two different Jerusalem'S', one being earthly and one being Heavenly. Which one someone aligns with determines how they see scripture in this regard.
There is. Here are a few verses.
Gal. 4:21-26
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Heb. 12:22-24
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that ofAbel.
Heb. 11:8-10
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker isGod.
Rev. 21:10-12
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
1 Pet 2:5
you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
Thank you @Joleneakamama.Sorry about the delay in responding. It has been busy here with pecan harvesting.
As I look at the issue one of the things I noticed was that Circumcision was a token of the covenant, not a matter of law. It is true that they had to be circumcised to eat of the Passover, and it was important. It is still important....but some aspects have been changed.
If you look back to the time of the exodus and wandering in the wilderness you see that Joshua had to circumcise the men before going into the land of promise because they had not done that since leaving Egypt. (Joshua 5:3-4)
In Deut 30:3 Moses prophesied of the children of Israel being gathered again after captivity, and then in verse 6 he prophesied that “God will circumcise thine heart and the hearts of thy descendants to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul that thou mayest live.” This is the mark of the new covenant according to Jer. 31:31-33 and Ezek. 36:24-27.
I found this interesting lamentation/prophesy in Jeremiah 9:23-26
Thus sayeth YHWH, let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: but let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, sayeth YHWH. Behold the days come saith YHWH that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; Egypt and Judah and Edom and the children of Ammon and Moab and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness; for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
Paul wrote many things about circumcision. I particularly like this passage in Col.2:8 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” You can keep reading if you like.
Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant established on better promises. (Heb. 8:6-10) This is why Paul wrote that physical circumcision did not matter, and even went as far as to say in Gal. 5:2 "If ye be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law…..v6 for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love."
He is not a Jew that is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew that is one inwardly: and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men but of God. Rom 2:28-29
Basically most in looking back at history missed that the people who followed Christ quit being identified by their tribe, and all came to be known as Christians eventually, starting at Antioch. Because they missed that, they tend to apply a different standard to people today called Jews then they do to Christians, not making the connection or realizing that the new covenant was with both houses of literal Israel.
YHWH first put His name at Shiloh, then made it desolate. His name was at Jerusalem, but He promised to do the same to Jerusalem. He now dwells in the hearts of His people. The people ARE the new Jerusalem of prophesy, even if many are still confused and looking to a physical city.
Holding onto their tribal identity didn’t matter to these people because they understood what Paul wrote in Gal. 3:29 “If ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.”
If you think about it, those that remained in the synagogues of Judaism could not have been “The called out ones” that made up the ecclesia of YHWH. For those not in Christ and using that old name, the words Jesus spoke about them are still true. They are still the blind leading the blind, teaching for doctrine the commands of men, making the law of YHWH of no effect by their traditions….and their hearts are still far from Him.
To sum it up we believe circumcision is still a token of the new covenant, but the only kind that matters is internal and visible by the fruits of the spirit.
I hope that sufficiently explains our position.
To be clear I do not intend to teach anyone, just explain our understanding of the scriptures that I referenced here.
I have two questions here for @Mojo and anyone pondering this issue.
What do you expect “True Israel” to look like today? And what causes you to have those expectations?
I appreciate your explanation.
I believe I called a truce with you a long time ago regarding the issue of who/what is Israel. It's really not on my front burner, or of extreme import to me. It tends to get contentious and as someone who I consider to be a friend, it isn't something I want to delve into. Your position on this particular topic intrigued me and was curious how you reconciled your positions. You explained it well. Thanks again. Someone else can answer if they please.