That’s because you won’t ever throw a punch. You dance around hoping to dazzle people with your footwork. It’s all float like a butterfly and no sting whatsoever.
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Meat Coming Soon: His Appointed Times
- Thread starter Mark C
- Start date
So my wife and I commute 1hr to work, and she reads the Bible on our drive. This verse was read and discussed... Deuteronomy 27:26 KJV Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. The one thing we talked about is how the "church" says "the law does not apply to us" and yet we have...
Acts 10:1-4 KJV There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, (2) A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. (3) He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. (4) And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Cornelius was a filthy, stinking, Gentile, in the eyes of Israel, and yet the above passage says what it says about him. And then we have the miss quoted, taken completely out of context vision, that cleanses these filthy, stinking, Gentiles, but the church always forgets...
Acts 10:28 KJV And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Let's not forget what the Scriptures teach when it comes to the Law...
(Exodus 20:10 KJV) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
(Deuteronomy 5:14 KJV) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
(Deuteronomy 31:12 KJV) Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
Did you notice in the above passages that the Law even applies to "the stranger that is within thy gates"?
And let's not forget what the Scriptures teach about those who say the Law is done away with...
Proverbs 28:9 KJV He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
The church thinks they are holy...
Isaiah 66:17 KJV They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
because they disobey the Law, but Proverbs and Isaiah say otherwise.
May YaHWeH lead, guide, and direct us into HIS Truth.
Acts 10:1-4 KJV There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, (2) A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. (3) He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. (4) And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Cornelius was a filthy, stinking, Gentile, in the eyes of Israel, and yet the above passage says what it says about him. And then we have the miss quoted, taken completely out of context vision, that cleanses these filthy, stinking, Gentiles, but the church always forgets...
Acts 10:28 KJV And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Let's not forget what the Scriptures teach when it comes to the Law...
(Exodus 20:10 KJV) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
(Deuteronomy 5:14 KJV) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
(Deuteronomy 31:12 KJV) Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
Did you notice in the above passages that the Law even applies to "the stranger that is within thy gates"?
And let's not forget what the Scriptures teach about those who say the Law is done away with...
Proverbs 28:9 KJV He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
The church thinks they are holy...
Isaiah 66:17 KJV They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
because they disobey the Law, but Proverbs and Isaiah say otherwise.
May YaHWeH lead, guide, and direct us into HIS Truth.
Amen
I have had people ask me if I could change it, would I? And I usually say, on some things, yes, BUT then I would not be the person I am today, I can't worry about what I could have been, but I need to worry about what I DO today.
Amen
That verse was what finally convinced my father, may he RIP. (I showed him the word in the original is "torah", there, too.)
Where do you sacrifice?
Just a gentle reminder that along with not wanting the Torah-keeping folk to take over the forum, we don't want the non-Torah-keeping folk harassing them back the other way either. If you've got a serious question, ask it, but this is the Hebrew Roots section of the forum and it should be a place people can discuss this without being interrupted by purely oppositional comments.
I am in opposition to these teachings, but it is a serious question nonetheless. I’m seemingly told that if I don’t follow Torah then I am disobeying my Heavenly Father and will be “cut off” but there are large sections of Torah that are seemingly disregarded by those who say that God commands me to follow it. I’ve never seen a clear answer as to why certain sections must be followed to the letter while others don’t apply at all. Some in this thread are talking about having the balls to tell the truth and are upset for being relegated to this section. That’s why I’m asking here, but I will gladly ask in a different section if everyone would prefer that.
It’s a fair question. The answers ar found in Hebrews 8-11. We don’t perform sacrifices because we’ve been gifted the perfect sacrifice; Jesus. This is the one area of the Law that’s been fulfilled.
There are some other, supporting reasons as well. There’s no place to perform the sacrifices and there’s no one to perform them and nothing to perform them with.
This of course is part of God’s plan. He doesn’t want an alternative system for salvation, which is only through Christ. If it were still possible to correctly perform sacrifices then someone could claim they had a path to salvation outside of Christ and that of course could not be allowed.
So the sacrifices were fulfilled, they didn’t cease. But they were taken over by Jesus.
Does that answer your question?
Sort of. However, the way Matthew 5:18 Is written seems to indicate all or nothing.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
It seems like it’s saying, for lack of better phrasing, it all stands till it’s all fulfilled.
I guess a follow up question would be, how can Yeshua from the tribe of Judah take over for sacrifices that Torah commands be done by men from the tribe of Levi? Wouldn’t Yah be breaking His own Torah by doing so?
Let me know if folks here would rather we take this into a different area, I have no problem continuing this conversation elsewhere if asking this here this is viewed as offensive.
I would explain it a bit differently. .
There are currently no sacrifices because the conditions do not exist for them to be done righteously. There is no Temple and there is no priesthood. Hebrews 8 tells us that the sacrifices in the Temple were being dine lawfully at the time of writing. Further, we see apostles in the Temple worshipping and sacrificing in Acts.
Prophecy tells us that there will be a Temple and sacrifice in the future overseen by the Prince (Yeshua).
All sacrifice points to Yeshua and His atoning work, but not all sacrifice is sin offering.
Yeshua is pictured in the sacrificial system, but the sacrifice is much more than simple shed blood.. it costs the sinner/giver, it is food for the priests and celebrants, it is a pleasing aroma of obedience to Yah.
Nope, the sacrificial system has not been 'done away with,' it is merely suspended as a form of discipline against His people who refuse His ways.
There are currently no sacrifices because the conditions do not exist for them to be done righteously. There is no Temple and there is no priesthood. Hebrews 8 tells us that the sacrifices in the Temple were being dine lawfully at the time of writing. Further, we see apostles in the Temple worshipping and sacrificing in Acts.
Prophecy tells us that there will be a Temple and sacrifice in the future overseen by the Prince (Yeshua).
All sacrifice points to Yeshua and His atoning work, but not all sacrifice is sin offering.
Yeshua is pictured in the sacrificial system, but the sacrifice is much more than simple shed blood.. it costs the sinner/giver, it is food for the priests and celebrants, it is a pleasing aroma of obedience to Yah.
Nope, the sacrificial system has not been 'done away with,' it is merely suspended as a form of discipline against His people who refuse His ways.
The topic is a good one and should be discussed... goal is to keep it cordial and honestly seek truth. You are welcome here.
I agree. It all is a unit.
Just yesterday, we read Deuteronomy 29:10-30:19. Amazing, incredible passage that Paul cites in Romans 10. ... the passage specifically connects the regathering of Israel with yet future circumcision of the heart. See 30:1-6! That parallels Ezekiel 36:22-32 and 37:15-28. The whole of Jeremiah 31, also.... all point to a future fulfillment of the new covenant. Currently, we only see shadows and hints.
So has all of the Law passed away? Do you believe there is no need to obey any Old Testament teaching? Is all of our faith contained only in the New Testament?
I guess I’m trying to square “one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled” with a high priest who isn’t a descendant of Arron or a Levite. It seems like the only way for that to work is if it’s a different covenant because it seems like a violation of the first covenant.
What does Paul mean when he says In Romans 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”?
What’s to square? A high priest who’s not from the line of Aaron violates the Law. What am I missing?
What is the Greek word translated as 'end?' Is there a better option than 'termination' when Christ said 'til heaven and earth pass away' and God/YHVH on multiple occasions said, 'forever?'
Hebrews 8:4-5 answer that. Yeshua is a better High Priest who mediates for us in the heavenly tabernacle, but that doesn't erase the earthly, nor our required obedience to His instructions regarding the earthly ordinances and appointed times.
Remember Deut. 6:25. It is righteousness to be obedient, but when we fail, we have an eternal Mediator. Having.g such a Mediator doesn't release us to do whatever we want, rather, He is there when we fail to do what we are supposed to do.
No one EVER was judged for obedience. Yeshua did not speak against the Jews for obedience. It is for their and our DISobedience that we are judged.
Romans 3:31. We obey in faith.