Does that seem to work or does it cause a riff between wives? Which would be yet another issue for the husband to sort out.
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Meat Complementarianism vs. Biblical Patriarchy
- Thread starter HomesteadWife
- Start date
In my opinion, no.
It definitely causes problems for all, except for the wife in charge.
Is it possible some of us define "advise" closer to "suggest", while others of us consider it closer to "direct"? I've seen this often in these types of debates. I'm seeing the same conclusion from both sides with regards to the man's word being the woman's law, so I'm thinking we're saying the same things with different understandings. I'm sure @The Revolting Man considers his wife's thoughts and doesn't think submission means abject silence, and I'm sure @NBTX11 isn't afraid to dismiss his wife's opinion after weighing it carefully. (But by all means correct me if my assumptions are wrong.)
For myself, I have told my wives repeatedly that, not only may they speak and I will listen, but they must speak if the Lord directs them, and then hold their tongues so as not to nag, manipulate, or speak ill. If they are given wisdom or knowledge for an occassion and withhold it from me, they will share my guilt for a foolish decision that causes my family harm. But, if they speak and I disregard them, then they are innocent, but woe is me for the Lord has spoken to me through them and I have ignored Him.
I do agree with @The Revolting Man that it opens the door to her sitting in judgment over him. That is a slippery slope that deserves careful consideration. Can there be a balance? Can she not make her requests and offer her viewpoint in the frame of mind and/or with the words of our Lord, "Not my will but yours be done"? Has it not been recorded more than once that God changed His mind because someone pleaded with Him? I realize these are examples of requests, not advice. I will be thinking more about this.
If it is wrong for a woman to advise her husband at all, then I will say that the opposing viewpoint is probably a holdover of romanticism and how we who are steeped in that tend to view our wives differently than did the patriarchs of old. If someone here does have knowledge that indicates God intends women not to advise their own husbands, I think we all would benefit from having that expounded upon beyond one-liners, even though it's intimidating to think about.
For myself, I have told my wives repeatedly that, not only may they speak and I will listen, but they must speak if the Lord directs them, and then hold their tongues so as not to nag, manipulate, or speak ill. If they are given wisdom or knowledge for an occassion and withhold it from me, they will share my guilt for a foolish decision that causes my family harm. But, if they speak and I disregard them, then they are innocent, but woe is me for the Lord has spoken to me through them and I have ignored Him.
I do agree with @The Revolting Man that it opens the door to her sitting in judgment over him. That is a slippery slope that deserves careful consideration. Can there be a balance? Can she not make her requests and offer her viewpoint in the frame of mind and/or with the words of our Lord, "Not my will but yours be done"? Has it not been recorded more than once that God changed His mind because someone pleaded with Him? I realize these are examples of requests, not advice. I will be thinking more about this.
If it is wrong for a woman to advise her husband at all, then I will say that the opposing viewpoint is probably a holdover of romanticism and how we who are steeped in that tend to view our wives differently than did the patriarchs of old. If someone here does have knowledge that indicates God intends women not to advise their own husbands, I think we all would benefit from having that expounded upon beyond one-liners, even though it's intimidating to think about.
In many cases that is exactly what soft-matriarchy or husband as figure head looks like. A lot depends on the dynamic at play and how independent the man actually behaves.
So the men who so badly need their wife's correction or those who claim they rarely if ever have disagreements in marriage are frequently mere figureheads if that.
The whole point of the captain-first officer analogy is to eliminate the baggage of marriage and show a hierarchical relationship that actually works and isn't just a woman manipulating her husband to do her bidding.
Keyword
And sometimes he's just a indecisive pushover.
And sometimes she made him that way.
And sometimes she picked him for that reason.
Sometimes. But it can be hard for women when their husband either doesn't share the opinion or disregards it.
Often what someone says they need and what they really need are not the same. Many "needs" are also just wants.
Yes, but I believe sometimes husbands and wives get too "chummy" with one another. We are able to speak to God, but he does not have to answer, nor for that matter listen at all. And just how we should honor and respect God when we speak to Him, a wife should honor and respect her husband with how she refers to or speaks to him.
If he asks her to.
What matters is who makes final decision? He or she? Whoever is, is one more more dominant.
Husband should take his wife altitudes, feeling etc.. in consideration and then make final decision. Opposite way, to disregard wife's opinions etc.. is very bad idea.
The wife's opinions on what? On how he should interpret a passage of scripture? On what to spend money on? On how to discipline the children?
Does a man need to consult his wives before he makes any decision now?
If it influences her life in significant way, yes.
Why I have feeling that some people here believe that is possible to run any organisation without taking into account subordinates interests?
It is basic fact that civilization must be based on win-win interactions where both sides benefits. Otherwise, interaction will be for benefits of only one side which in only possible under condition of military superiority of one side. And side which suffers will run away at his possible opportunity.
Marriage in real life can only work when it is for benefits of both side and both side must also be of opinion that marriage benefits them. Otherwise exit will be sought. Social pressure may block divorce, but it cann't block separation or avoidance. And both are marks of failed marriage.
As long as he is making final decisions, I don't have any problems with this.
Does he have to listen to his wife. No. Would it be smart to get input, especially from a Godly woman well versed in scripture and right living. Absolutely.
He can listen to her all day long, consider what she wants, and consider her opinions. As long as he makes a final decision and she knows it's a final decision, she should be able to talk to him about things. As long as she accepts his decisions as final.
Have some of you guys been married yet? I like listening to my wife. She's pretty smart and I just like listening to her. Don't mean she is in charge or sitting in judgement. She knows I make the calls and accepts that. I frequently say "What do you think about..." I don't see anything wrong with that.
This man has been married for 31 years, and seems to have a beautiful family. Whatever he is doing in his household seems to be working for them.
If wives are to submit to their husbands then his wife is still submitting to her husband because he welcomes and encourages her opinions, his rules. I don't understand why this is up for debate, it's simply a preference.
Also it seems a bit harsh to assume that a wife would willingly and eagerly jump on opportunities to cast judgement onto her husband because he simply opened the door to the possibility. If that's the case then she doesn't sound like a very nice lady to begin with.
If wives are to submit to their husbands then his wife is still submitting to her husband because he welcomes and encourages her opinions, his rules. I don't understand why this is up for debate, it's simply a preference.
Also it seems a bit harsh to assume that a wife would willingly and eagerly jump on opportunities to cast judgement onto her husband because he simply opened the door to the possibility. If that's the case then she doesn't sound like a very nice lady to begin with.
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Hi there southernphotini, i am interested in your definition of chattel?
In many a marriage the man makes the 'final' decision. And he reliably decides to do whatever it was she wanted lest she berate him over picking wrong and make him sleep on the couch. Or he 'consults' her about big decisions and always gives in after a debate because he doesn't care as much as she does or she's more verbally manipulative then he is.
And if perchance he doesn't decide as she wants, well then he's a horrible no good husband because he doesn't "listen to her".
Welcome to America.
This isn't necessarily directed towards you but more in a general sense.
If you're consistently having bad experiences with other people then maybe the issue is something you're doing? Most people don't enjoy being treated as though they've done something wrong before they've even been given the opportunity. I can't imagine that going over well when making friends or meeting future marriage potentials.
The end result may be that this person gets tired of your behavior and turns into the very thing you were so afraid of them becoming in the first place. Sometimes a person's behavior towards us is a reflection of how we've treated them.
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It's not harsh, it's a loving warning from multiple men with years of experience under their belts leading American women. Contrary to myth, women aren't all unicorns and rainbows and more spiritual to boot. Turns out they have a carnal nature too, the curse of Eve, a feminist church and a satanic culture egging them on.
Men can learn from the hard earned experience and mistakes of others or they can learn the hard way. Their choice.
Not every woman is like this. I make decisions and I don't sleep on couches.
Every person wants to feel valued, feel like they are contributing, and are heard. There is zero wrong with this and no one will ever convince me otherwise. You can lead with commanding authority and still be a decent person.
Personally I find it harsh to make assumptions about someone based on your bad experiences with other American women. No one said anything about treating women like unicorns and rainbows, however most would like the basic level of respect that comes with not being treated as though they're out to get you before they've even had the opportunity to do so.
Another man's bad experiences shouldn't be used as a weapon against your own wife. Sure as a warning possibly but I don't understand why it would be your initial go-to.
Oh boy, the stereotypical curse of Eve fall back when you don't want to actually take into consideration someone else's view point.
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