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Meat Concerning New Recruits - The Past Sins

FollowingHim said:
What is your opinion of the position of a woman who had a man we would consider her husband, but who never called himself that, who has sent her away and no longer wants anything to do with her, but who would not even consider giving her a written document to that effect? Can she be free, or is she bound to him until he gives her the paperwork?
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How do you (or anyone) KNOW any of that? Such is the point of a written witness.

My concern here is "what does Scripture say?" Anything else is mere opinion.

Any 'vague phrase' or subjective interpretation is NOT for me to make for any other man. HE Is the one who must decide, and "bear her guilt."
 
That is a very normal scenario. Many of us have faced it. How many of the men here have married non-virgin wives? How many of those wives were non-virgin due to relationships that had no paperwork and no prospects of receiving any? I expect you'd find this situation has been faced by a significant minority of the monogamous men and a majority of the polygamists.

And your response is that scripture does not give us any guidance on it?

If your interpretation of scripture is only applicable to goody-two-shoes perfect little churchgoers, it's not very helpful to most people. I say instead that we can find principles in scripture that give us clear guidance in this sort of situation, principles I have outlined above.
 
FollowingHim said:
And your response is that scripture does not give us any guidance on it?
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I'm honestly sick and tired of having words put in my mouth!!!!!

And you wonder why sometimes I get frustrated and even tell people off? Like now?

There's PLENTY of guidance in there, @%^~$#!!!

He gives examples, both good and bad. (See Genesis, including the paraschot I've posted in just the last two weeks. Why did both the 'sons of promise,' get wives from OUTSIDE the land? And, if you hadn't noticed, those stories didn't mention whether Esau's wives were 'virgins' or not!)

He gives LOTS of "instruction". (Whether people like it or not.)

And ultimately He gives Authority to the husband to DECIDE. He just warns that "he will bear her guilt." Thankfully, WE have someone to bear ours, too!



PS> And if you really wrote this, addressed it to me, Samuel - you haven't read a $Q@##@#@$ thing I've posted here since before you even came to BF:

FollowingHim said:
If your interpretation of scripture is only applicable to goody-two-shoes perfect little churchgoers, it's not very helpful to most people.
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ITEM: I believe, and teach, without equivocation, that people who choose to be "called by His Name," had better KNOW what that means, and come OUT of the Whore Church!

NOTE: Rather than argue, I have started a whole new thread to address what I contend is that issue which matters most AFTER the choice discussed here is made:

Meat - Scriptural Advice for the wedding night

No, this isn't about sex per se. Nor is about what constitutes "divorce," (as opposed to mere "putting away") nor about what the Almighty State ordains as "marriage licenses." It is about Authority, and "past sins," and vows. And, yes, it's been done before. But I see current evidence that...
biblicalfamilies.org biblicalfamilies.org
 
Mark C said:
I'm honestly sick and tired of having words put in my mouth!!!!!
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Well for my part I was genuinely trying to understand what you were saying, and expressing what I think you are saying more succinctly is how I verify I'm understanding you correctly. Unfortunately you can have a very indirect way of discussing things, so such clarifications become necessary and misunderstandings are to be expected.

So now I know I misunderstood your point. Thanks for saying so.

Which means I still don't fully understand your point, but are coming closer. Try this:

Are you saying that the advice given in scripture for this situation is that a man can choose to do anything about it, taking a woman under whatever personal circumstances she may have, knowing that any guilt in the situation will be ultimately borne by Christ?

Does scripture give him any advice to help him understand whether a woman is available or not, are there some such women who would be off limits? Or does the decision come down solely to his own personal opinion, and all is permissible due to grace?
 
FollowingHim said:
Are you saying that the advice given in scripture for this situation is that a man can choose to do anything about it,...
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Not "anything" - he should "study to show himself approved," and make the best decision he can. Always.

THAT being said,
FollowingHim said:
...taking a woman under whatever personal circumstances she may have...
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IF that is the prayerful answer he is willing to stand behind, KNOWING "he bears her guilt,"

FollowingHim said:
...knowing that any guilt in the situation will be ultimately borne by Christ?
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Ouch.

The Real Messiah is not a "get out of hell free" card. Here I am sure we probably disagree.

HOWEVER:

IF we walk in obedience to Him, and do our best to do 'what is Right" (not as "each man doing what is right in his own eyes," but His) then we have the assurance that, just as a husband who covers his wife by "bearing her guilt" does, He bears ours. The CONDITIONALS do matter, very much.

As to the specifics, I started a thread for that, and those actions are outlined there, consistent, I contend, with Scripture (as Written):

Vows may be cast down - by a husband, on the day that he hears them. Make it count.



OK - with that out there, on to this:

FollowingHim said:
Unfortunately you can have a very indirect way of discussing things, so such clarifications become necessary and misunderstandings are to be expected.
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When discussing Scripture, and particularly things that are a "matter of life and death," as has been noted, details matter.

And, knowing that some of them are 'verbotten' to discuss, even when they ARE such, since they may offend some 'moderators', even when it directly concerns marriage, it ain't easy. I am NOT, for example, even remotely about to suggest that "any guilt" associated with a "Law" that somebody claims "christ did away with" can be "done away with" by "another jesus" who supposedly did away with it.

Just to be CRYSTAL clear: if you want Him to "bear your guilt," you had better be sure that He doesn't have reason to say, "I never knew you."
 
steve said:
Well yeah, strangulation doesn’t work well if it follows a beheading…..
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It probably wouldn't work well after burning or stoning either. The functional historic purpose of stoning was to be a form of death that would produce the loss of all blood from the body.

I suppose, though, that, with a good pair of rubber gloves, it could be a good form of emphatic post-strangulation deterrent symbolism.
 
MeganC said:
Oh no. The Bible allows for four forms of execution and anyone messing with my girls can be assured of Stoning, Burning, Beheading, and Strangulation.

Not necessarily in that order.
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Romans 12:19 “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
And... you will be His instrument to accomplish His purpose?? Okay, I got it now. ;)
 
The Revolting Man said:
I’m setting up a trap but since you walked into it, is sex before marriage not a sin?
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OK without reading all the responses I will bite on this one- Sex is not sin. It is the "with whom" that concerns the Rule-Maker... "not with her, or her, or her..." God sets the guard rails on our behavior. Sex happens and Babies happen in EVERY SINGLE FACET OF LIFE! People Pets and Plants will all reproduce. Like a very large rolling rock you cant stop it but can influence where it goes.
 
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