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Countries which allow foreigner non-muslims to take 2nd wife

IshChayil

IshChayil

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I'm halfway to a unique solution to our situation.
I recently learned that Israel recognizes legal plural marriages made abroad; I thought this was only an exception for Yemini Jews immigrating (even though the secular government doesn't allow more than one marriage made inside Israel to be registered).
So supposedly if you marry your wives in some muslim country outside the land, then bring them in to live there they can both get visas and be registered as wives. (of course I'd need to check this out with an attorney when I have funds but I like to plan ahead)

So, I've googled and not having much success, can any good researchers out there find a country (I'm assuming Islamic) which allows: 1) foreigners to legally marry a 2nd wife there and 2) no need to convert to Islam. I'm hoping for a "1 law for everyone" sort of situation.

Israel is kind of weird about marriages; if for example a Jew wants to marry a non-Jew they can not do it within Israel but the government does recognize legal marriages made outside the land so many couples fly to Cyprus to get married fast. This is what lends credence to what I read about the plural marriage loophole there.

This could be really neat for us, one of my wives really wants to have my last name and it's just not doable in Philippines (unless we converted to Islam, yuck); I've also had a vision to start a kibbutz in the Negev (Judah) for believers to come hang out cheap in tents and stuff reclaiming the land. If both wives were legal then, well, they could come with.
 
Personally I lean to the side of "marriage shouldnt be state instituted, so my wives takey name via marriage to me, not because they signed a paper for the goverement". Honestlt, I will never do another government sponsored wedding again if I can help it.

That said, if there WAS a solution... that would sure be nice. Seems a long way off though :(
 
One thought on this - most third-world non-Muslim polygamy (traditional African and Polynesian / Melanesian culture) is in tribal marriages, not state marriage. The law allows people to say they are married because the tribe considers them married, but they don't have a state certificate of marriage. Most state certificates were started by colonial authorities who didn't see polygamy as legitimate.

Now, for a Jew migrating to Israel from such a country, would Israel recognise their tribal marriages as legitimate? I am sure many Jews have immigrated from such countries, and many would have no paperwork for their marriages.

The question is therefore, what does Israel recognise as a "marriage".

If they recognise a tribal marriage, that opens a lot more countries as options.
 
cnystrom said:
I have always thought that strange that some countries have different laws depending on what religion you profess.
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In the US, one's religion is an arbitrary label while "American" is who you are. In the non-Westernized world, the opposite is true: religion is identity while state affiliations (and, often, their associated geographic boundaries) are a fluid matter.

This partly explains why, for instance, people in China who learn of this religiously-defined group we call Amish understand, naturally, that these folk are hated and suppresssd by the government — denied the right to own land, imprisoned, disappeared, painted as subversive by propaganda campaigns, not allowed to move freely, and so on.

That the Amish are in fact trusted, even revered as symbols of integrity and American values such as independence, hard work, and piety, and are left to themselves as much as anyone else, is utterly astonishing to the typical Chinese who learns of it.

Religion is to us an abstraction no matter how seriously we think we take it. Elsewhere it can be truly life or death — and the laws reflect that.
 
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FollowingHim said:
One thought on this - most third-world non-Muslim polygamy (traditional African and Polynesian / Melanesian culture) is in tribal marriages, not state marriage. The law allows people to say they are married because the tribe considers them married, but they don't have a state certificate of marriage. Most state certificates were started by colonial authorities who didn't see polygamy as legitimate.

Now, for a Jew migrating to Israel from such a country, would Israel recognise their tribal marriages as legitimate? I am sure many Jews have immigrated from such countries, and many would have no paperwork for their marriages.

The question is therefore, what does Israel recognise as a "marriage".

If they recognise a tribal marriage, that opens a lot more countries as options.
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Thats an interesting idea. When the wave of a jews from Yemen came in, their marriages were recognized (many were plural) by the state and I had always assumed they were legally married in Yemen but who knows if they cared to register with the government in Yemen or not.
Regarding tribal marriages in other areas, I’m not sure how that would help us as only the wives would need to “immigrate”. Are you suggesting that we may be able to get support of a tribe as “married” then go through one of those older colonial systems to get government credentials as lmarried per tribal rules”?
If I’m understanding correctly that may be a very creative solution.
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@EternalDreamer regarding what you wrote about the state etc. I agree the state is much less concern to us than the heavenly but in the situation we are discussing (getting immigration visas for more than one wife) one must deal with the state.
 
IshChayil said:
Are you suggesting that we may be able to get support of a tribe as “married” then go through one of those older colonial systems to get government credentials as lmarried per tribal rules”?
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Yes - or get tribal credentials alone, ignore the government of that country, and present the tribal credentials directly to Israel.

As I understand it, few of the "older colonial systems" give marriage licences to polygamists. Rather, such countries often have a two-tier marriage system, with state licences that are monogamous, and "customary" marriages (tribal marriage) that have no government paperwork but are recognised as valid "marriage" regardless once brought to the attention of the government (like "common law marriage" in some Western jurisdictions). Take South African law for instance.

This is a really complex matter to wade through and I really have almost zero knowledge of it, I just know that it exists. It may not be accessible to foreigners, or it may be, and it could depend entirely on the particular local laws and the opinion of the particular officials you ended up dealing with. I just see that it is complex enough for there potentially be a wide open loophole somewhere you could use. If you can find connections in the right country.

Yemen, being Islamic and therefore recognising polygamy completely officially, is a different situation.
 
@IshChayil Are you interested in legal government certification because you'd like to be a certified "normal" member of the planet? (I'm only asking because I've asked these questions too and that was my motivation.)
 
JustAGuy said:
@IshChayil Are you interested in legal government certification because you'd like to be a certified "normal" member of the planet? (I'm only asking because I've asked these questions too and that was my motivation.)
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No and Yes.
No, I would need the certifications to move my family to Israel (if we wanted to move to the US the laws in the US would have to change to allow poplygamy to get both wives in or we'd have to have a biiiiig budget to work out some shenanigans).
Yes, one of my wives would like to have my last name and in the country where we live that can only happen if it's a legal marriage (they have no name changes here for last names otherwise).
 
@IshChayil - ah, got it. It's amazing how it's totally fine to have a bunch of romantic boyfriends/girlfriends but sheesh, if we want to have a family together or have the same last name, forget it! It's frustrating and discriminatory and a double standard but we all know this. Sigh.
 
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