Defending our lifestyle to the elders

[Wesley]

We appear to disagree on the best method for such persuasion and on the issue of whether or not those who are dead set against polygamy can be converted by anyone other than the Holy Spirit.

Based on evidence from my experience, I can say that it's possible to convince both non-believers and believers who are against polygamy - not just the undecideds. I can at least say it took more than just waiting around for the Holy Spirit to do all the work since I had to actually engage the person by answering their objections, questions, etc. Most times it took days/weeks of discussion back-and-forth, and some were convinced and some were not.

If the Holy Spirit is willing to use an unbeliever like me and He is willing to convince other unbelievers on NON-salvation and relatively simple-to-understand issues, then I'm all for it.

As for the issue of whether or not the Holy Spirit uses unbelievers...

Matthew 25:37-40 NIV
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

I don't know about anyone else but I take this to mean that on Judgment Day there will be some who are admitted into Heaven who have to ask why they are there. That implies (at least to me) that some who do not hear, or do not believe, the good news of Christ will actually be saved.

Consider these scriptures in that context...

Matthew 12:32 NIV
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Also in Luke 12:10)

Since the act of claiming that Christ is not one's lord is speaking against the "Son of Man", rather than speaking against the Holy Spirit, this means that a person can be forgiven for claiming that Christ is not his lord.

Philippians 1:15-18 NIV
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

This seems, at least to me, to directly address the question as to whether or not the Holy Spirit uses unbelievers.

So in response to your question about the Holy Spirit using unbelievers, I believe that the answer is 'yes.'

As to whether or not the issue of polygamy is a salvation issue, that is a topic for another comment so that this one doesn't become an entire set of encyclopedias rather than a comment. I believe that the answer to that question is both 'yes' and 'no.'

 

[PolyPride]

We appear to disagree on the best method for such persuasion and on the issue of whether or not those who are dead set against polygamy can be converted by anyone other than the Holy Spirit.

Based on evidence from my experience, I can say that it's possible to convince both non-believers and believers who are against polygamy - not just the undecideds. I can at least say it took more than just waiting around for the Holy Spirit to do all the work since I had to actually engage the person by answering their objections, questions, etc. Most times it took days/weeks of discussion back-and-forth, and some were convinced and some were not.

If the Holy Spirit is willing to use an unbeliever like me and He is willing to convince other unbelievers on NON-salvation and relatively simple-to-understand issues, then I'm all for it.

As for the issue of whether or not the Holy Spirit uses unbelievers...

Matthew 25:37-40 NIV
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

I don't know about anyone else but I take this to mean that on Judgment Day there will be some who are admitted into Heaven who have to ask why they are there. That implies (at least to me) that some who do not hear, or do not believe, the good news of Christ will actually be saved.

Consider these scriptures in that context...

Matthew 12:32 NIV
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Also in Luke 12:10)

Since the act of claiming that Christ is not one's lord is speaking against the "Son of Man", rather than speaking against the Holy Spirit, this means that a person can be forgiven for claiming that Christ is not his lord.

Philippians 1:15-18 NIV
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

This seems, at least to me, to directly address the question as to whether or not the Holy Spirit uses unbelievers.

So in response to your question about the Holy Spirit using unbelievers, I believe that the answer is 'yes.'

As to whether or not the issue of polygamy is a salvation issue, that is a topic for another comment so that this one doesn't become an entire set of encyclopedias rather than a comment. I believe that the answer to that question is both 'yes' and 'no.'

What happened to you not responding any more because of the convo getting off topic? Thanks for the info. but I did not ask a question about the Holy Spirit. To get back to the topic i'd say, In addition to the Holy Spirit it will take WORK and not "sit and watch" to get polygamy accepted.

As far as your off topic post goes, I dont agree with much of your reasoning because forgiveness requires confession and repentance. Unrepentant homosexuals and nonbelievers can also feed the less fortunate. Non-believers 'continually' deny Jesus is Lord. If unrepentant nonbelievers can get to be with God then may as well not send anyone to Hell.

 

[Wesley]

What happened to you not responding any more because of the convo getting off topic?

A valid point, one of very few that you have made. Thank you for reminding me that I backslid. I will leave you to your extremism and misrepresentation of my points.

 

[PolyPride]

What happened to you not responding any more because of the convo getting off topic?

A valid point, one of very few that you have made. Thank you for reminding me that I backslid. I will leave you to your extremism and misrepresentation of my points.

Sure..run away when you dont like that i dont agree with all your views.

Back up your claims rather than telling me for like the 15th time that you will stop posting.

 

[mystic]

Oh, just get a room, you two. :razz:

 

[NetWatchR]

Oh, just get a room, you two. :razz:

Seriously. It's like watching the Odd Couple except without the laugh trak.

 

[Wesley]

Oh, just get a room, you two. :razz:

More like a boxing ring if he had his way of it.

 

[MrB]

Seriously over it
Room ,boxing ring...Who cares,
Somewhere else would be good

 

[The Revolting Man]

What struck me about the original post in this thread is that there was a church willing to be a home to this family. That was very encouraging to me. I hope to hear that all went well.

 

[Wesley]

What struck me about the original post in this thread is that there was a church willing to be a home to this family. That was very encouraging to me. I hope to hear that all went well.

While it is possible that that is the case my personal experience makes it seem highly unlikely. Very few churches who go into meetings about polygamy are interested in dialogue rather than preaching fire and brimstone about the alleged sin of polygamy in my experience.