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Definition: Adultery vs. Fornication

CecilW

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From time to time, the question arises & is discussed as to the difference between these two words. Answers have, at time, gotten a bit tortured.

This morning, I saw, really SAW, three concepts in the same verse:
Heb 13:4 said:
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Paraphrasing this, Marriage is, sexually & relationally, the road, the way. (For those of a mind to go philosophical, the Tao.)

Fornication and Adultery are the ditches on each side. Getting clearer, ...

Marriage has bedding/sexual activities WITHIN a covenant marriage relationship.

Fornication is any bedding/sexual activity WITHOUT any covenant marriage relationship. And ...

Adultery is a bedding/sexual relationship that BREAKS an woman's existing covenant marriage relationship.

A covenant marriage relationship being defined, Biblically, and for this context, as between a man and woman, with exclusivity on the part of the woman, but not on the part of the man, as he may have more than one such relationship simultaneously.

How does that set, my friends?
 
I think the definition of fornication is a bit narrower than that. As sin is breaking God's law, and fornication is sin, fornication must be doing sexual acts that are forbidden by God's law - bestiality, homosexuality, incest etc. Although it is very wise to have sex only within marriage as it avoids these sins and many other problems, this is not a law of God (nowhere does the Bible directly say 'Thou shalt not have sex with anyone unless you are married to them'), so simply sex outside of marriage is not necessarily sin, so cannot be called fornication. It is stupid, the advice of "don't have sex outside marriage" is extremely wise and I am promoting it, not contradicting it. But when it comes to calling something sin that's stronger, and we have to stick to the clear words of scripture rather than reading in the words of man, however wise those words may be. And scripture leaves us in no doubt about what sexual practices are so bad God declares them sinful.

Otherwise, good summary. With a few tweaks this should become an FAQ post.
 
Sorry for not clarifying what I (silly me! :lol:) figured was too obvious to need it. ...

Sex with a prostitute, a beast, your neighbor's virgin daughter, man-man, etc. do not involve a valid marital man-woman covenant. As such, they are all facets of fornication and thus sin.

There is, however, a difference in the stated requirements for remedy. Many require killing the participants. Bestiality, man-man, man-mom-daughter triad ...

However, in the case of your neighbor's virgin daughter, you are required to go ahead and complete marrying her, as a marriage has been entered into, however incorrect the method, and the transaction must now be completed properly. The deed isn't over, so judgment isn't yet rendered. If you complete it properly, it isn't judged fornication. If you just walk off, it was fornication.

Prostitutes (those who earn their living, as opposed to "harlots", who merely got an itch!)? Seems to just say, "Stop it!" Yup. Fornication. No marital covenant. Fairly mild remedy. If you DID go back to her and say, "I poked you, I gotta marry you. You're mine. Let's go. I will love you from now one, blah, blah, blah ...", she would likely laugh, point out that you done paid your fee, and she's had 3 guys since you -- what of them?

Adultery is a fairly narrow ditch, although it includes even imagination. The Fornication ditch is pretty durn wide.

It's sort of like the study that found that healthy families pretty much all seemed to share most of a very few characteristics, whereas dysfunctional families come in near infinite array.

Does that "fix" it?
 
cwcsmc said:
Then there is the age old question, is masturbation a sin?
Since the Bible is actually silent on the topic, and there is a rather interesting but little known history behind current western attitudes, may I refer you to:

Masturbation: The History of a Great Terror

(Sometimes hard to get.)

The Reviews are helpful, and contain the gist of the story.
 
cwcsmc said:
Then there is the age old question, is masturbation a sin?
No.

For any such question, find a Bible verse that says it is sin, otherwise it's not sin. It's pretty simple.

Now lusting after a married woman is equivalent to adultery and therefore sin, and that lust could result in masturbation - but even then it is the lust that is sin, not the masturbation itself.

Cecil, will reply to your post in detail later.
 
cwcsmc said:
I already knew the answer to the question according to the bible, what I was trying to ask is, in the context of the original post did Cecilw consider it a part of wide ditch, fornication?
Wouldn't matter what I thought. I just saw this verse with three situations, and it finally made sense via these 3 definitions -- to me.

As to masturbation, on which the Scripture is silent, let each be persuaded in his own mind.

(Btw, new copies are offered for around $12, or were earlier today. And it IS a rather interesting read. Historical, rather than theological, yes, for the most part, other than to de-bunk the validity of calling it onanism, which wouldn't apply to females anyway ...)
 
What "Fornication" refers to in scripture:

Prostitution: Both the Hebrew and Greek words for "fornication" have as their root the word for "prostitute". For instance the Greek for fornication is "porneia", which is based on the word "porne", meaning female prostitute. Which in turn is based on "pornos", meaning male prostitute (translated "fornicator" or "whoremonger"). Every time "fornication" occurs in the Old Testament it is by my reading in relation to prostitution / harlotry, and often in the New Testament it appears to be in relation to that also - e.g. the "fornication" of the "great whore" in Rev 19:2.

Father's wife: 1 Corinthians 5:1 also uses "fornication" to refer to a man taking his father's wife (breaking Lev 18:8; 20:11; Deu 22:30; 27:20).

Sex with heathens: 1 Cor 10:8 and Rev 2:14 refer to the fornication committed by Israel in Numbers 25:1-9, when many died in a plague. Numbers 25:1 calls this "whoredom" (actually also the same word elsewhere translated "fornication"). So it may have involved prostitution, but was primarily about taking heathen women who led them to worship a foreign god. Warned about in Exodus 34:12-16, which makes it clear that the prohibition of marrying foreigners was to avoid people being dragged away to worship foreign gods.

possibly Homosexuality: Jude 1:7 refers to the fornication of Sodom and Gomorrha. This may refer to the homosexuality there, or might be talking about prostitution in addition to their homosexuality, either reading would work.

Every other time the word "fornication" appears there is no indication as to what it means.

Nowhere is the word "fornication" ever associated with general sex outside marriage, rather where it is defined it refers to more specific things that are prohibited in scripture. In fact, a number of times it refers to sex WITHIN marriage. The Israelite intermarriage with heathens is called "fornication", and taking a father's wife as your own wife is also called "fornication". In both cases sex within marriage is called fornication. It is wrong not because it is outside marriage, but because it is forbidden for other reasons. Fornication has nothing to do with maritial status.

So:
Adultery is breaking a marriage through sex.
Fornication is prostitution and any other form of sex that is forbidden in scripture (either within or outside marriage).
 
Thanks FollowingHim and CecilW for further making me have to rethink my Biblical understanding on this. Drat Biblical Families! You're all making me have to rethink everything!! Ack!
 
CecilW said:
However, in the case of your neighbor's virgin daughter, you are required to go ahead and complete marrying her, as a marriage has been entered into, however incorrect the method, and the transaction must now be completed properly. The deed isn't over, so judgment isn't yet rendered. If you complete it properly, it isn't judged fornication. If you just walk off, it was fornication.

Prostitutes (those who earn their living, as opposed to "harlots", who merely got an itch!)? Seems to just say, "Stop it!" Yup. Fornication. No marital covenant. Fairly mild remedy. If you DID go back to her and say, "I poked you, I gotta marry you. You're mine. Let's go. I will love you from now one, blah, blah, blah ...", she would likely laugh, point out that you done paid your fee, and she's had 3 guys since you -- what of them?
I'm really struggling with these 2 things. What's the application today? Like if I have relations w/unmarried woman God says (A) it's dumb (but maybe not fornication) per passages in Psalms and it's best to either (B) continue in marriage w/her or (C) compensate her in some God-honoring way. What would a God-honoring compensation method be? All expense paid trip to Hawaii? Give her half my net worth (this seems like the best option)? Regardless, this is seems very weird.

My goal isn't to circumvent marriage, but to understand God's intention then and for us today.
 
JustAGuy said:
My goal isn't to circumvent marriage, but to understand God's intention then and for us today.
It seems clear that God's intention can be summed up by "Sign, then poke." So to speak. With an appropriate person.

All else is less-than-best, and requires some level of remediation.

God doesn't call us to thump those who miss this particular standard. That is the devil's methodology. He is the "accuser of the Brethren". (Rev 12:10ish)

Rather, since we are to continue Christ's work in this world, we should adopt the Holy Spirit's method, which ever-so-clearly-&-lovingly invites, "THIS is the way. Come walk in it." (Isaiah something.)

IMHO ... :)
 
FollowingHim said:
As sin is breaking God's law, and fornication is sin, fornication must be doing sexual acts that are forbidden by God's law - bestiality, homosexuality, incest etc...... ..... But when it comes to calling something sin that's stronger, and we have to stick to the clear words of scripture rather than reading in the words of man, however wise those words may be. And scripture leaves us in no doubt about what sexual practices are so bad God declares them sinful.
I am struggling with your definition of sin, Samuel.
In both the Hebrew and Greek, the words translated as sin pretty much mean "missing the mark" as in an arrow not hitting it's target.
While disobeying YHWH's law is a major missing of the mark, it would seem that many things that are not spelled out are also a failure to be "right on".
I believe that it is for this reason that Yeshua instructed us that if we even look upon a woman with lust was to have committed adultery with her in our heart. (of course, because of the specific definition of the word adultery*, he was speaking of a married woman)

*Adultery was that which defiled a woman's marriage bed. In other words, she had to be married to someone else.
 
My husband wants to know if you then believe that a single woman can have as much sex as she wants without committing sin as long it is not beastiality, incest, etc. He says your perspective is too narrow and the womans actions should be considered when deciding if sin has been committed. You seem to be only looking at it from a man's point of view. Can it be okay if it leads the woman to sin? Does the Father in any way lead us as the bride to sin? Does He not say to flee the every appearance of sin? Not just sin, but the merest appearance of sin?
 
firstofmany said:
My husband wants to know if you then believe that a single woman can have as much sex as she wants without committing sin as long it is not beastiality, incest, etc.
Until Samuel proves otherwise, I can only assume that your assumption about what he believes is correct.
I have come to know and love Samuel and I cannot ever remember disagreeing with him about anything on this board, but he may have some legalism that is binding him on this one. Then again he may be able to show us something that we have never considered, but my breath I am not holding.

Samuel may have an important point about our use/misuse of the word fornication. I suddenly realized that we are not commanded that men are not to fornicate with other men, we are told that men are not to lie with men and that neither men nor women shall lie with a beast. If all sex outside of marriage and adultery was considered fornication, then bestiality, incest, homosexuality, etc. would simply be called fornication.
Nevertheless, I will still call it sin.
 
We all have differing beliefs when it comes to eternal security.

I happen to believe that at some level of disobedience (sin) we are turning our back on YHWH and would be foolish to insist that we are not in any danger of eternal separation from Him. But that is just me. ;)
 
Steve, I expect that we continue to agree on what is right and wrong, but just use different words when explaining it. I am by no means legalistic. However:

I am very cautious about what we label "Sin". The problem is that so many Christians are far too hasty to label everything they see as less than ideal as "Sin", regardless of the words of God. Polygamy for instance - never spoken against, but called "Sin" because it is perceived to be "missing the mark" and not following God's "ideal" plan for marriage. We criticise this attitude in others on that issue, and point them back to scripture. But we must be careful not to fall into the same trap ourselves and just in turn label everything that we do not believe is ideal as "Sin", lest we too end up condemning those that God does not condemn.

Sin is black and white, in God's eyes. In His eyes there is a clear boundary. However we see this imperfectly and fallibly, and there are areas that are legitimately debated because God has chosen for whatever reason not to clearly and unambiguously label them as sin in the Bible. I know my understanding of God's commands has changed through my life due to my imperfect understanding, I hope my understanding is moving towards perfection but know it will never completely reach that. We must be humble. So I find it much more prudent to divide things into three categories, which for want of better terms I'll call:
- Sin. Stuff that is directly and unarguably condemned in scripture (1 John 3:4)
- Foolishness. Stuff that is not directly condemned, or might be condemned but the scriptures are debatable for one reason or another, but is clearly a stupid idea to do. May or may not be sin.
- Acceptable things.

Then, in my own life, I avoid both Sin and Foolishness - because I know a good chunk of what I've labelled "Foolishness" might actually be sinful, and even if it isn't sin it's not going to be helpful in my life.

At the same time, in the lives of others, I condemn Sin from scripture but refrain from labelling Foolishness in that way, rather treating others with grace here as I know I could be wrong.

This means I've got a good buffer of things that I avoid, including all that could be sin. This is a whole lot safer than trying to define the line precisely and then thinking it is completely ok to do everything right up to that line, but not beyond it. That's legalism. And then, if you've got the line wrong, you could quite easily end up in sin. And what about if your beliefs change - "hey, I just did a Bible study and now think it's ok to use a prostitute, couldn't see anything against it, awesome, where's the telephone book?" - then tomorrow - "oh, oops, didn't see that verse. Probably shouldn't have done what I did last night then..."! Bit of an extreme example, but hope it illustrates my point. Far safer to be humble and recognise there is a grey area, than arrogantly believe you know the line perfectly.

So, to apply this to firstofmany's question:
firstofmany said:
My husband wants to know if you then believe that a single woman can have as much sex as she wants without committing sin as long it is not beastiality, incest, etc. He says your perspective is too narrow and the womans actions should be considered when deciding if sin has been committed. You seem to be only looking at it from a man's point of view. Can it be okay if it leads the woman to sin? Does the Father in any way lead us as the bride to sin? Does He not say to flee the every appearance of sin? Not just sin, but the merest appearance of sin?
If you're a single woman - don't sleep around, it's a stupid idea for so many reasons, could well be sinful - and if you believe it is sin it most certainly is for you anyway (Romans 14:23).
If you know a single woman who is doing this - lead her to a better lifestyle in a loving and accepting fashion, like Christ would. It's not as though shouting "Evil Sinner" at her would help anyway.
 
I have seen this thread lingering out here for a bit now, and have actually avoided reading it; however, after reading through it this morning I am glad I did. This post illustrates what I like about this community - there may be varying opinions, but every makes their case, supporting it when possible with scripture, and all who pay attention learn something from it.
 
I wondered why it was always abut the church (a group of people). Christ marrying the church, etc, Not individuals. Maybe not one of us can ever hold the whole truth of God but everyone has a part of it. Only by banding together, sharing and checking each other... burning off the impurities... can we have the whole truth.

Just my 0.0002 cents. :D
 
Samuel,
I compliment you on wanting to be careful, but you have defined sin in a more narrow than YHWH did for us in His Word.
This is what Yeshua chastised the rabbis for when he came against their traditions.


It is popular to talk about not judging one another, but we have clear scripture commanding us to act upon what we perceive our brother to be doing.
Please study the following instruction, keeping in mind that it only refers to one who is called a brother. The heathen we are not under command to avoid.

1Co 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
 
FollowingHim said:
Far safer to be humble and recognise there is a grey area, than arrogantly believe you know the line perfectly.

Scripture addresses the intent of our heart, and so any action not clearly definable from the eyes of another may still be righteously judged as sin or not by oneself. The only areas I find "grey" are those in which what is sin to one is not to another. While grey between us, it is as black and white as ever between man and Creator, because He sees our hearts. In those instances, I hope that any of you would speak to me with conviction. So long as we are seeking Him first, He will be glorified and pleased with our fellowship.
 
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