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EVERYTHING against the LAW

Memphis Dwight

Memphis Dwight

Member
100 years ago a man could buy, sell, and consume milk from cow or goat that had not
been pasteurized. Man had been drinking unpasteurized (that is, uncooked and still full of healthy enzymes) for thousands of years. Now it is illegal in many states to do so.

100 years ago, a man could marry a girl that was 15, 16, or 17 years of age. My grandfather married my grandmother when she was 17. He would be considered a criminal today.

100 years ago, a man could educate his children at home. Now in places like California, it is either already against the law to homeschool, or it is in the process of being made criminal.

California is also considering (or maybe have already) making spanking a criminal offense.

Now if Romans 13 applies today, then government is supposed to be punisher of evil doers, ch. 13 vs 3. So going with that line of reasoning, time and geography determine what is evil.

1. Drinking uncooked milk- evil in some states, not evil in others.
2. Spanking a child, evil in some states, not evil in others.
3. Marrying girl under 18, evil today, but not yesterday
4. Educating your children at home. Evil in California, not evil in Arizona, one state over.

See the absurdity of this?
images

Anyone, anyone?
 
Of course, MD.

Our Founding Fathers did, too - and wrote a Declaration, outlining the "causes which impel them to the separation", after all attempts at "redress of grievance" were rebuked. That document noted that there comes a time to "withdraw consent".

Some of us came to that conclusion when we realized that our "money" was nothing but a lie, and a violation of God's prohibition against dishonest weights and measures. Some realized it when what were once called "Rights" were demoted to mere "privileges" from Caesar. Some still don't get it - even when "evil" is publicly called "good", and reading certain passages from God's Word is now a crime in many places.

The man who wrote that oft-misunderstood line in Romans 13 spent a lot of time in jail, and clearly violated Caesar's prohibitions on his teaching. Peter, his occasional partner in "crime" against that pagan state, observed that the "unlearned and untaught" had trouble understanding Paul's logic, often to their own destruction.

Finally, our Savior warned us what was coming. Not only is there a time to wipe the dust off our feet, but to "come out of her, My people" - lest we partake of the coming plagues.

Blessings,

Mark
 
... and how very much I would indeed like to "come out of her" ... but there won't be another New World being discovered any time soon ... so just how can the people of God "come out of her"?
 
... so just how can the people of God "come out of her"?
Click to expand...

That's the $64 question (I guess now it's rapidly becoming the $64Trillion question :evil: )
...and I have been talking, asking, and praying about it for a number of years now myself, and won't try to claim I have a complete answer.

But I do know that, for me and my house, at least, it starts with coming out of a paganized (and State-licensed) 'church', and doing whatever I can to come out of the rest of Caesar's contracts and from his presumed authority, including marriage licenses, and his "safety net" that implies God cannot be trusted to take care of us. As the banking system collapses, it is increasingly clear that his dishonest weights and measures (starting with an unconstitutional "money" since 1913 that is a crime itself) are being exposed for the lie they are, and that the dollar will be destroyed. (What follows I believe has ALSO been written about by John.)

I tend to see the question the way that it was implied by Yeshua's response on the tax question. "Render unto Caesar that which is his..." To Whom do we belong, and Whom do WE serve?


Blessings in Him,

Bondservant of Yeshua, Mark
 
Hi,

I agree with you all. I think it is illegal to market and sell unpasteurized milk, not really to drink it! I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's not illegal for you to drink anything you want to but providing it is a crime. Same as home birth in many states. It is not illegal for me to have my baby anyway I want but it is criminal for a person who is not a licensed medical doctor to attnd me and very few doctors will do home birth anymore so there are many underground midwives in many states who are only there to help keep women safe who decided that they want to have a baby outside of the control of an instituion or just prefer their own bed! If those midwives are not careful they end up in jail. I like Ron Paul because when asked if he supported midwifery licensure nationwide he laughed and said that he does not support licensure even for doctors because of the same bad policies of control that are set up for many kinds of licensure(by the way Ron Paul is a medical doctor, an OB I think!) Anyway, my 2 cents and thank the lord for underground midwives.
 
:-) said:
... and how very much I would indeed like to "come out of her" ... but there won't be another New World being discovered any time soon ... so just how can the people of God "come out of her"?
Click to expand...

We all wrestle with this night and day. It may take God intervening miraculously at this point.
 
I think it is illegal to market and sell unpasteurized milk, not really to drink it!
Click to expand...

It's all about "commerce", Marichu. This is the 'nexus' (a non-lawyer might say 'loophole') that allows for control; slaves must have permission to buy or sell. Free people can enter into contracts. It turns out, however, that one can make a "deal with the devil" to squander even what were once called "God-given Rights".

It sounds like I am being very cynical. Unfortunately, the truth is far worse than mere cynicism can convey.


Love in Him,

Mark
 
Marichu

I really have to respond to this post on milk!!! The main reason you are not allowed to buy milk straight from the bulk tank:

Government reason - There could be bacteria in it that could make you sick, so they say it has to be heated to 161 deg. for 15 seconds to try and kill it. And for the most part it does, but it does change the flavor. They say no but believe me it does. I don't know the last time I had milk from the store.

Real reason- The companies that process the milk had these laws passed so we couldn't sell straight from the farm and cut into their PROFITS. The milk from the tank has a lot of butterfat that they take out and sell, besides selling the milk. The government sets our milk price from what these companies tell them they have in stock. They have been known to fix numbers to lower our price, but not yours at the store. I could go on a long time about this, but it all comes down to their greed for money!!! :twisted:


One midwife was there when I delivered my son and charged me 1/2 beef and 1 hog. Another didn't charge anything for my little girl. But they all had meetings with us to see what our faith in God was before they would say that they would help. :D

Almost all of this comes down to their love for money, I know some will disagree with this point.

Dairyfarmer
 
Band together, work together, pool resources and intelligence. The only way out of the now basically worldwide system of commerce is to beat it.

Marx was a moron, and his system was broken, but Gulag came out of moral relativism, not socialism. It isn't as if communist countries are social or communal anyway, they have fat or even fatter aristocracies in ruling parties than even the west. But socialism in terms of valuing everyone and everyone doing their part is viable, and can be done without internal currency (though you would need a labour-currency sort of set up which requires everyone to do their part) With the right minds and the right technologies in place a set up where people work for each other rather than themselves could not only be self-sustaining but could dominate competing markets. No need for profits other than for importing goods so they can sell things at barely above cost. This would not only beat out commercial megagiants, but it would be a service to their fellow man too. A group like this could amass wealth and use it to break down the false value of wealth (something a normal rich person could never do).

A gathering of God's faithful as such could and would change the world.

P.S.
In this I show being a radical dreamer more than in my support of polygamy. I do a lot now to try to gain the finances to develop my technologies, God willing they will happen.
 
As I recall, we are called to change the world ...

Is it really being a dreamer to long to do just that? Is it really being a dreamer to burn with the desire to see the Kingdom of God established?

Christ told us that it is through our love for one another that the world would know us as His disciples. Paul spoke of the Body growing into the maturity of Christ knitted together by love.

Where is this love to be demonstrated, if not in the drabness and challenge of day-to-day life? The opportunity to live this love is one of the beauties of biblical marriage. The world can (or will be able to when we are mature and walking as we should) ... the world can look at such a family and marvel at the lack of jealousy and at the great love shown - marvel at each person laying down their life for the others.

What about the Body of Christ? What would the world marvel at witnessing a group of people/families living that new commandment of Christ ... really living it ...

We could, if we really wanted to.
 
Tlaloc,

I appreciate all your posts. you are like from another planet!! Actually the new testament church lived socialism "having everything in common" but I think that true christianity is the only context in which this can exist peacefully (I am cuban and my entire family were political prisoners, and I have many other sob stories related to this, won't bore you now) Anyway, keep it up all us fellow thinkers are enjoying it all. Don't worry we will come up with some good arguments for some of your points soon enough (to facilitate exchange and growth of course ;) )
 
Tlaloc wrote:

"Band together, work together, pool resources and intelligence. The only way out of the now basically worldwide system of commerce is to beat it."

" ... With the right minds and the right technologies in place a set up where people work for each other rather than themselves could not only be self-sustaining but could dominate competing markets. No need for profits other than for importing goods so they can sell things at barely above cost. This would not only beat out commercial megagiants, but it would be a service to their fellow man too. A group like this could amass wealth and use it to break down the false value of wealth (something a normal rich person could never do)."

Tlaloc: Are there Hutterite settlements near you?

Tlaloc wrote further:

"A gathering of God's faithful as such could and would change the world."

Amen. Seems to me that it would be partially by conversion and patially by raising up Godly seed.

We could do it --- if we only really wanted to.
 
Smiles

We have lived by the Amish and Mennonites all our life and that is basicly how they work. They put their money into the church and when someone needs some they ask the elders. They are always helping one another with labor and knowledge. One problem: they have to marry within the church which leads to other problems I don't have to mention.


Dairyfarmer
 
There are Mennonite settlements around here too, they sell eggs to the vast majority of the city. I try to buy their produce whenever available because it is usually much better quality. I respect their culture and beliefs. This leads me down a frustrating rabbit trail sub topic comment... Our church supports a number of missionaries in various places, and so naturally new missionaries occasionally come and give a presentation to solicit support. Once a missionary came to ask for support to evangelize to the Mennonites in Mexico. Needless to say my mood started with critical and quickly turned to incensed with rage. Apparently their views where too different for him and he felt they needed salvation's call. Thankfully he was denied support for that and other reasons, but I think that that was an example of how to many evangelism is not telling others what we know about God and more imposing our culture, way of life, and exact belief system on others. Sending missionaries to evangelize to other Christians? I think not.

Like I said earlier, I like the Mennonites, but unless they have a major paradigm shift they're not about to change the culture at large. Their way of life is like the monastics centuries ago. They are separate from the world and preserve a good way of life by their seperation. Discretion Is the better part of valour after all, and perhaps their way of life will preserve for everyone else ideas of community that will help in the same way the monastics preserved a more pure Christianity through turbulent times.

Marichu,

I'm always glad for good arguments, but perhaps we will have less if I clarify a few points. I'm not up to speed on Cuba's situation, but I know about the Gulag and some about the Lai Gao, I know the red flags of communism are dyed with the blood of dissenters. The ideas of Marx and Lennon are the crux of that communism, and are directly related to Cuba's communism as well (the alliances show that).

The early church is the example of my ideals. I'm not talking about a government, a revolution, or a nation. I'm talking about a society, people who freely come to share their goods and abilities. You would have to come with devotion to The God of Abraham, and wouldn't want to join if they didn't have that. You would have to give all you have (except perhaps things of sentimental value) to the poor before you join so you must join with humility (one might ask, why not give it to the group? But that would look like a cult). The goal would be first to meet the needs of the people within, then provide as much as possible for the outside. The needs I refer to are not only material needs (Which are easily met presently) but arts, culture, ideas, worship. Such a societies broadcasting would need no commercials. Such a societies products could be produced at a high quality for equal or less than cheap things from outside. Everything this society prospered in in the name of God would make a mockery of Darwinist Naturalism's claims of knowledge and progress for the world to see.

It wouldn't just not work if everyone was in the society, it would be pointless. The main point of such a society would be to show the world what God does when people work together in his name. Good for the people in it yes, but a beacon for the people outside to wonder about.


:)

That's right, a good, co-operative polygamist family is one of those things that makes the people on the outside stop and wonder about the way they live. I'm glad you pointed that out. The worst of the worst will call all us men abusers and all the women brainwashed, but when you talk to a person face to face they can see the media is lieing.

So many have lived and died dreaming of seeing the Kingdom of God established, but they always accomplish so much trying to do their part to make it happen. You're right, its not idle dreaming so long as we wake up in the morning and do what is needed to make it happen.

Godly kids are precious and so important. Converts are so important. These things would be the priories of my dreams. A society which accomplishes its work efficiently so there's more time for raising children, and prospers and helps others to make outsiders wonder and consider what God has done.

We can do it, if God wants us to
 
Dairyfarmer,

yes, from what I know of the Amish and the Mennonites seems to me that they're good at living Christian community. Wonder why there are so few converts? Are they perhaps TOO concerned about personal holiness and, therefore, let the commandment to preach the Gospel fall by the side? This has always seemed to me to be an egregious error on their part - so egregious, in fact, that it cannot simply be a matter of oversight; nonetheless, I've never come across an explanation for this lack of proselytizing.

Smiles
 
Tlaloc,

I find it interesting that you speak of the communities of the Mennonites as being similar to the monasteries of the Middle Ages. Since the Lord changed my heart so many years ago, I've had this "vision" (you know, the foggy, insubstantial, can't-quite-put-your-finger-on-it kind) in which a network of communities of God-fearing people, "... they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev. 14:12), serving as the bastions of God-fearing culture and the seeds from which the Kingdom of God would take root and grow.

Communities of families ...

As I recall the monasteries began with people "just doing it". Primarily men who withdrew from society to live purely, coming together. The communities grew from this. The "Rule of Benedict" wasn't first written and then the community established; it was written after people had already been living community.

"Ora et labora" - really good. Just too bad that Tertullian's baloney (to put it mildly) had so infected everything.

You wrote:

"Godly kids are precious and so important. Converts are so important. These things would be the priories of my dreams."

Amen.

You continued:

"A society which accomplishes its work efficiently so there's more time for raising children, and prospers and helps others to make outsiders wonder and consider what God has done."

Amen.

Once read a book written by a young German reporter who spent a year with the Hutterites in Canada. My impression was that they had plenty of time.

You wrote:

"We can do it, if God wants us to"

Well, seems to me that He does. Maybe we need to "just do it".

Smiles
 
: )

I think the early Mennonites actually considered themselves an extension of the monastic tradition. Thats part of why their theology is not like reformed theology and why the wingnut preacher felt they needed salvation. I don't have references on hand as to where I heard they considered themselves an extension, so I won't stand by it if someone disagrees. Their theology is very much pre-reformation, but it is also very much NOT Catholic.

Interesting you say visions of communities of familys. Co-incidental to be sure, but possibly more. You see I mentioned technological advances earlier right? Well, the basic structure of each community would be a massive construct. The foundation of this building would be a full section of land (1 Sq Mile) and its hight, well, I don't know, I'm working on a material that could make it taller than todays buildings, but I cannot finish it or test it without massive resources. Given the construction materials of today, well, it would be extremely tall... Residential floors would be divided into blocs for living in. Each bloc would be several acres (yes, several acres) and given to a family group, ideally an extended family with several (2-4) houses per plot. Each floor would be appx 20 feet, 3 feet of soil, 2 feet of support stucture, and 15 feet of open air. Modern (actually quite ancient given the hanging gardens of Babylon or the Terras in South America) gardening techniques could be used to grow food, flowers or whatever the family wanted (Soccer field, Mini Golf, whatever their heart wants) Plus there would be room for a small supply of livestock (perhaps 2 large like cows\goats and a few chickens, if the family wanted that) All of this indoors, in layers. The ground floor would be a place of worship, and the top would be an observity (but also for worship) though peoples meeting places like churches would be on commercial floors or in their home plots. After every couple residential floor there would be a commercial or industrial floor where people could work and get goods and socialize. Finally, a few floors would be 'wildlife parks' where small animals could make a home. One WP would be near the ground wild animals could come in and out on a ramp, one would be very high up so birds could land, both would have grass and small trees planted. Ecology isn't everything, but its something, and this would not only provide spacious extremely high density (appx 10,000 max pop by first estimates given modern materials, mind thats on just 1 sq mile with commerce\industry and some food production) housing but increase the wildlife space as well. Of course it inst quite possible yet, but with some integrated technologies I think so.

And yes, the family bloc would be the core, then the community bloc. If the Aztecs can build pyramids on top of mountains we can at least build spacious homes and a community with the light we've got.

:twisted: I don't like Mr. Turtle and his baloney... It makes me very mad.

Hmm, Hudderites, less technology, more time. Well, they don't waste time on useless things, thats the beauty of a social economy, no cashiers (Just think how many cashiers there are), no bankers, no insurance people. Massive labour saved each year. Of course people would still need to stock shelves and work the fields and produce technologies and build housing ect, lots of work, but if you cut out the useless stuff people will have more time.

Yes, I think God does want it done, but I don't know when. I can't now, staring this whole thing is expensive. I have people, but I can't do anything until one of my ventures works out enough to provide start up cash. Until the society has things to sell to the outside world it has now way of acquiring the materials it needs to build and grow and get established.

Oh well, if He wants it done He'll make it happen :)

:)
 
Thread Hijack:
In Georgia it is against the law to sell raw milk for human consumption. We drive 50 miles one way to buy in South Carolina. We are in an underground raw milk co-op so we rotate with the other insurgents, taking turns going to pick it up.
 
I do the same thing except we buy goats milk. Hard to believe we live in a time
when we must smuggle the food that God created for us.
 
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