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First born males dedicated to God?

The Revolting Man

The Revolting Man

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I've been meaning to start this thread with more research for a while but since @IshChayil is briefly with us and I want his input I'm just going to throw it out there.
The Law says that every firstborn male from a woman (so not the man's firstborn son but the woman's. I have sons by three women, each of which was the first son of that woman. All three of those sons fall in to this category not just my firstborn) is dedicated to God and must be redeemed. What does this mean practically? Traditions as well as scripture is being sought.
 
I’m interested as well
 
ZecAustin said:
I've been meaning to start this thread with more research for a while but since @IshChayil is briefly with us and I want his input I'm just going to throw it out there.
The Law says that every firstborn male from a woman (so not the man's firstborn son but the woman's. I have sons by three women, each of which was the first son of that woman. All three of those sons fall in to this category not just my firstborn) is dedicated to God and must be redeemed. What does this mean practically? Traditions as well as scripture is being sought.
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OK so there are a few more things to check.

Did any of your gals ever have a miscarriage BEFORE they had your sons?
It's only the "peter rechem" so the first to pass through the womb literally?. So if there were any miscarriages or any live daughters born first, then that means that son that came later is not the first through the womb.

NOw, if each of these guys was the first human to pass through the womb then they belong to the Cohanim (the sons of Aharon) and need to be redeemed.
In Jewish culture this means we have to give loot to some lucky bastard who is a descendant of Aaron. Usually people buy special silver shekhels for it and pay the kohen in a short procedure known as "Pidyon haben" (redemption of the son). Uusally, if the Kohein is cool he'll give some of the money back for the boy's religious education "buying" a seat at the bar mitzvah.

There's more to this. The history has to do with how we (native born and adopted alike) were ransomed from Egypt and there wasn't enough paid back to Hashem so now we need to redeem our firstborns (just as He redeemed His firstborn, Israel from Egypt).
If you know a Cohein to qualify he has to be: Not married to a convert or the daughter / grand daughter of a convert (I understand this to mean convert to Judaism or Christianity as Christianity is "grafted in" so still counts). So if if his wife's grandma was a Buddist he no longer has the Kahuna "priesthood". This has to be true for 3 generations of his family.
So if you know someone like that you can pay him then your kids are not "slaves" to the priesthood; i.e. Hashem via proxy.
Now I see this as Aaron's right so I don't think we can generalize this away to mean ministers or rabbis it's stealing from Aaron if we do that.

Usually a first born and first to pass through the womb is redeemed as a baby but he can be redeemed at any time in his life. he can also redeem himself if a parent didn't do it.
Hope this helps or at least gets stuff started (we don't mean salvation folks by "redeemed" in this context).
 
ZecAustin said:
Damnit. Now you're complicating things. It's only referring to the first child it's a male, not the first male child?
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Only the sons that were born before all other siblings from each mother. SO, It's only referring to the first child it's a male.
 
Hmmm. Exodus 13, 19 and Numbers 3:12 &13 seem to have quite a bit to say about it in a few words.

Exodus 22:29 is also interesting.

My question would be, who did the money go to before the Levites were substituted for the firstborn?
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
Hmmm. Exodus 13, 19 and Numbers 3:12 &13 seem to have quite a bit to say about it in a few words.

Exodus 22:29 is also interesting.

My question would be, who did the money go to before the Levites were substituted for the firstborn?
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And what's the point of it today where you don't have an active Levite priesthood that does that work and depends on the money for lack of a land allotment.
 
Part of the reason I ask about the before period, is that I am convinced that God intended a Melchizedek priesthood for Israel until he realized that they were (possibly) too far removed from righteousness to be the example he’d intended (Exodus 19) His fix was to provide a substitute priesthood that had proven that they could obey as the Levites exampled at the Golden calf fiasco.

So, if the Levites were plan B, who got the money, or what was the sanctification process like pre Numbers 3.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
Part of the reason I ask about the before period, is that I am convinced that God intended a Melchizedek priesthood for Israel until he realized that they were (possibly) too far removed from righteousness to be the example he’d intended (Exodus 19) His fix was to provide a substitute priesthood that had proven that they could obey as the Levites exampled at the Golden calf fiasco.

So, if the Levites were plan B, who got the money, or what was the sanctification process like pre Numbers 3.
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Silly G-d not realizing things .... if only He were omniscient :p
 
ZecAustin said:
Damnit. Now you're complicating things. It's only referring to the first child it's a male, not the first male child?
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Haha, I'm trying to reduce what you owe bro! Getting you a Jewish accountant waaaaaaasupppp :p
 
IshChayil said:
Silly G-d not realizing things .... if only He were omniscient :p
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I know, right? It’s almost like if only He were omniscient, Adam wouldn’t have been kicked out of the Garden, and Saul’s kingdom would have been established forever, and Satan wouldn’t have rebelled, and He would have let Moses’ tablets be the ones that got broken, and He would have just started His covenant with Moses instead of Abraham, and He would have figured out the Levitical priesthood sooner so he wouldn’t have had to bother with the Melchizedek.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
I know, right? It’s almost like if only He were omniscient, Adam wouldn’t have been kicked out of the Garden, and Saul’s kingdom would have been established forever, and Satan wouldn’t have rebelled, and He would have let Moses’ tablets be the ones that got broken, and He would have just started His covenant with Moses instead of Abraham, and He would have figured out the Levitical priesthood sooner so he wouldn’t have had to bother with the Melchizedek.
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Hmm, The Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world... those He foreknew He also predestined... it’s almost like God knew everything before any of it happened... it’s almost as if He knows the end from the beginning... it’s almost as if this whole thing is about Him and His glory and we simply rejoice in our salvation and praise Him because He is worthy... it’s as if His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. :)
 
I've been studying a lot about the Melchizedek priesthood and its role in the renewed covenant of Abraham. The First covenant based on a relationship. The Covenant that was made with the a man who was the father of both Jew and Gentile nations. The one by renewing and bringing it to the forefront graphs both Jew and Gentile together in Messiah. The Messiah came to full fill the prophecy and the promises of Elohim. The Father through The Son, the renewal of the Abrahamic Covenant and the Melchizedek priesthood fulfill promises made in other covenants. That's part of the importance of the Melchizedek Priesthood. Another importance of the/difference between the Melchizedek Priesthood and Levite Priesthood is free will, more importantly the choice to love and serve over the obligation to. The Levite Priesthood was the chosen priesthood, dictated by Adonai for the purpose of mediating the Law and forgiveness of Adonai to the people of Elohim and to serve as a constant reminder of the gravity of sin, the need for redemption, and the power of declared forgiveness, thus pointing to Messiah . The Melchizedek Priesthood is a priesthood where we choose to serve and love for the purpose of showing the Torah written on our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 and how it changed us, the forgiveness of Adonai to All those in Messiah and to serve as a reminder of the gravity of sin, the need for redemption through Yeshua, and the power of Abba's grace.
 
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Verifyveritas76 said:
I know, right? It’s almost like if only He were omniscient, Adam wouldn’t have been kicked out of the Garden, and Saul’s kingdom would have been established forever, and Satan wouldn’t have rebelled, and He would have let Moses’ tablets be the ones that got broken, and He would have just started His covenant with Moses instead of Abraham, and He would have figured out the Levitical priesthood sooner so he wouldn’t have had to bother with the Melchizedek.
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In Matthew 11:20-23 it is written; Then He (Jesus) began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent:
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

He knows not only the reality but also the possibility/variables.

Asforme&myhouse said:
Hmm, The Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world... those He foreknew He also predestined... it’s almost like God knew everything before any of it happened... it’s almost as if He knows the end from the beginning... it’s almost as if this whole thing is about Him and His glory and we simply rejoice in our salvation and praise Him because He is worthy... it’s as if His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. :)
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Yes. Amazing what being omniscient can do.

Shalom.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
I know, right? It’s almost like if only He were omniscient, Adam wouldn’t have been kicked out of the Garden, and Saul’s kingdom would have been established forever, and Satan wouldn’t have rebelled, and He would have let Moses’ tablets be the ones that got broken, and He would have just started His covenant with Moses instead of Abraham, and He would have figured out the Levitical priesthood sooner so he wouldn’t have had to bother with the Melchizedek.
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Yeah... if only He'd known about man's heart, He would have outlawed poly....:D

There, God's omniscience used against those who say He doesn't approve....
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Hmm, The Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world... those He foreknew He also predestined... it’s almost like God knew everything before any of it happened... it’s almost as if He knows the end from the beginning... it’s almost as if this whole thing is about Him and His glory and we simply rejoice in our salvation and praise Him because He is worthy... it’s as if His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. :)
Click to expand...
So, a bit OT, but here's a thought. If the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, then the Torah, God's everlasting unchanging standard of righteousness, had already be in place. Paul confirms this when he tells us in Romans that the Law is spiritual. It exists outside of space and time and can't die or be 'done away with.'

Brain bubble gum....
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Hmm, The Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world... those He foreknew He also predestined... it’s almost like God knew everything before any of it happened... it’s almost as if He knows the end from the beginning... it’s almost as if this whole thing is about Him and His glory and we simply rejoice in our salvation and praise Him because He is worthy... it’s as if His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
Click to expand...
PeteR said:
So, a bit OT, but here's a thought. If the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, then the Torah, God's everlasting unchanging standard of righteousness, had already be in place. Paul confirms this when he tells us in Romans that the Law is spiritual. It exists outside of space and time and can't die or be 'done away with.'
Click to expand...
Thank you, Soon to be the main points of my next workshop.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
I know, right? It’s almost like if only He were omniscient, Adam wouldn’t have been kicked out of the Garden, and Saul’s kingdom would have been established forever, and Satan wouldn’t have rebelled, and He would have let Moses’ tablets be the ones that got broken, and He would have just started His covenant with Moses instead of Abraham, and He would have figured out the Levitical priesthood sooner so he wouldn’t have had to bother with the Melchizedek.
Click to expand...
Haha yeah I was just jazzing you. You're absolutely correct to stomp me down on that ... stupid free will...

BTW a smarter follow up to what you wrote is Dr. Heisser's opinion that originally the plan for Moses was to actually have a Malkhizedeq style priesthood making Moses a King/Priest but since Moses was a bit reticent ... Hashem involved Aron and we end up with a lesser priesthood.
 
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