Forget Polygamous Marriages

[Seth]

I feel your pain brothers. I have never found a church that gets it right. The church should get it right. That is frustrating. When we are told not to forsake the assembling of ourselves, I think that is talking about the church. Yet the church excommunicates and forsakes me. When I approach the leaders of the church who profess a love for God, with the truth on a variety of subjects other than polygamy. I am rejected and ridiculed because it does not conform to their traditional cultured based understanding. So after years and years of being disillusioned/disappointed/disenfranchised it is easy to claim that they do not truly know God and are but a pale imitation. They say things in his name but in the end, he will say I never knew them. Yet...... I see them love, I see them pray, and feel God answer them. I watch them try to blunder through the darkness of this world doing the little good they understand. Do they oft get it wrong, indeed they do. Is there sometimes a great man, who's doctrine is bent as it passes down through time, yes. Do they confuse "good" ideas with spiritual, they do. Does that mean they have no value or place in his kingdom? Would that my doctrine was perfect, would that I had never changed my view on anything because I had it all right to begin with. Would that I had never clung to a "good" idea with "good" intentions, at the cost of spiritual truth. So should I hold those who profess to be spiritual/church leaders to a higher doctrine than myself, justifying this on the grounds that at least I didn't claim to know the entire truth? So then no work gets done with less than perfect truth? Then no work ever gets done. So what is the solution then to those who do his work to the best of their limited abilities? Well after thinking that they should have a millstone wrapped around their neck and be cast out to sea, I look a little earlier in the passage at Mark 9:38-40 and see that there are those that do his work, and my master's command is to leave then unhindered. Or Phi 1:15-18 in which I rejoice that they preach my savior regardless of the motive and intent. So then what do I do with the church? I don't hinder them, I rejoice in their work. I even go so far as to attempt to help them. I understand if some feel they are called out and can't interact with so much heresy. However just as I am in the world but not of it, and hang out with tax collectors and prostitutes while preaching truth. Likewise, I associate with the "church" not falling into their evil ways, but instead preaching the truth and loving them. Doing service that they may know my love for them.
:ugeek:

 

[DaPastor]

Hello Seth

I feel your pain brothers. I have never found a church that gets it right. The church should get it right. That is frustrating.

I really do believe that many people in the church are attempting to embrace truth, however, sometimes the truth gets obscured because people assume that everything that was taught before them was truth indeed. This, along with the fear of going outside of the parameters of what their truth teaches them, causes everyone to embrace the party line. Most of the these people really want to be faithful to God, and fear being labeled a heretic - thus, fearful of their very salvation.

No church will ever get it "right". In fact, the epistles were primarly written to correct the churches who were not "getting it right." The truth of the matter, lest we ourselves get puffed up with pride, is that unless God reveals His Word clearly to us, we don't "get it right" either - and we are the church - at least in one sense of the Word!

When we are told not to forsake the assembling of ourselves, I think that is talking about the church.

I agree! If we forsake the assembly WE are not "getting it right!"

Yet the church excommunicates and forsakes me. When I approach the leaders of the church who profess a love for God, with the truth on a variety of subjects other than polygamy. I am rejected and ridiculed because it does not conform to their traditional cultured based understanding. So after years and years of being disillusioned/disappointed/disenfranchised it is easy to claim that they do not truly know God and are but a pale imitation.

I think we all need to be humble about the truth we understand to be true. We may have a greater insight to a particular truth, or we may actually have been deceived ourselves. Scripture tells us to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace until we all come to the unity of the faith. We should endeavor to maintain unity with all those who profess Christ as their Lord. On the other hand, I believe that we should find a church that comes closest to what we hold to be Scriptural.

They say things in his name but in the end, he will say I never knew them. Yet...... I see them love, I see them pray, and feel God answer them. I watch them try to blunder through the darkness of this world doing the little good they understand. Do they oft get it wrong, indeed they do. Is there sometimes a great man, who's doctrine is bent as it passes down through time, yes. Do they confuse "good" ideas with spiritual, they do. Does that mean they have no value or place in his kingdom? Would that my doctrine was perfect, would that I had never changed my view on anything because I had it all right to begin with. Would that I had never clung to a "good" idea with "good" intentions, at the cost of spiritual truth. So should I hold those who profess to be spiritual/church leaders to a higher doctrine than myself, justifying this on the grounds that at least I didn't claim to know the entire truth? So then no work gets done with less than perfect truth? Then no work ever gets done. So what is the solution then to those who do his work to the best of their limited abilities? Well after thinking that they should have a millstone wrapped around their neck and be cast out to sea, I look a little earlier in the passage at Mark 9:38-40 and see that there are those that do his work, and my master's command is to leave then unhindered. Or Phi 1:15-18 in which I rejoice that they preach my savior regardless of the motive and intent. So then what do I do with the church? I don't hinder them, I rejoice in their work. I even go so far as to attempt to help them. I understand if some feel they are called out and can't interact with so much heresy. However just as I am in the world but not of it, and hang out with tax collectors and prostitutes while preaching truth. Likewise, I associate with the "church" not falling into their evil ways, but instead preaching the truth and loving them. Doing service that they may know my love for them.
:ugeek:

Very good, for two wrongs do not make a better right. We as believers are to love His church, as imperfect as it is, and work toward building the kingdom. Scripture never encourages isolationism - that is an American invention. Blessings!

 

[Faithful Servant]

Amen Pastor,

Just a fallen sinner doing my best to trudge along in these Christian trenches we call life! Doing my best to press forward for that which lies ahead in Christ Jesus, and in doing so keeping my brothers & sisters in Christ weather they've yet to discover the truths of biblical pm or not covered in prayer. Seeking to do Yeshua's will and not my own, which includes loving our enemies, even perceived ones who are just in the darkness & confused. Do I get frusterated with these brothers & sisters in Christ or tend to lose heart at times, of course I do. As again I'm still a work in progress, and a simple fallen sinner I need to remind myself that I was once where they were and am no better than anyone else. Not easy to keep our heads from getting swollen or our lives out of balance in all areas, not just with pm. But I do need to challenge myself to keep the main focus the main focus - JESUS - Not me nor pm! Again I have quite a ways to go, as I've learned that thoes who feel that "they've arrived, usually have the furtherest to go!" Just keeping it real and trying my best to speak the truth in love. Thanks for listening to my 10 cents! :lol: God be with thee all, guide thee and bless thee all, according to the motives of our hearts.

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE,
Faithful (not perfect) Servant

 

[DaPastor]

Amen Pastor,

Just a fallen sinner doing my best to trudge along in these Christian trenches we call life! Doing my best to press forward for that which lies ahead in Christ Jesus, and in doing so keeping my brothers & sisters in Christ weather they've yet to discover the truths of biblical pm or not covered in prayer. Seeking to do Yeshua's will and not my own, which includes loving our enemies, even perceived ones who are just in the darkness & confused. Do I get frusterated with these brothers & sisters in Christ or tend to lose heart at times, of course I do. As again I'm still a work in progress, and a simple fallen sinner I need to remind myself that I was once where they were and am no better than anyone else. Not easy to keep our heads from getting swollen or our lives out of balance in all areas, not just with pm. But I do need to challenge myself to keep the main focus the main focus - JESUS - Not me nor pm! Again I have quite a ways to go, as I've learned that thoes who feel that "they've arrived, usually have the furtherest to go!" Just keeping it real and trying my best to speak the truth in love. Thanks for listening to my 10 cents! :lol: God be with thee all, guide thee and bless thee all, according to the motives of our hearts.

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE,
Faithful (not perfect) Servant

Very good! It is easy to lose our focus - the author and finisher of our faith. We should remember to emphasize what Scripture emphasizes, for obviously, that is what God emphasized. This will keep us balanced and authentic. PM, in the scope of things, is not a major doctrine. It is a neglected doctrine. Hence, a website like this one. However, if we make PM our focus, we could become guilty of making it an idol. Blessings sister!

 

[marry-ella]

Here comes an unpopular view. I think the church is dead and separated from the body of christ. Ahhh duck and cover. I think that it could even be the sign of the times. They are with out natural affection. I was just in a church were the leaders were allowed to mis-lead and even lie. Be sneaky and deceitful with out reprehend by even higher church authority. I see that the churches are so defragmented that they are like a body with multiple personality disorder. Each not fully aware of the other parts. If they were all do well that would be one thing but if they are conspiring with one another to remain in total denial and darkness than that isn't a work of god. Putting Polygany aside lets look at this. Ramped "private" misbehaviour and parallel over judgment, lack of Support and understanding. Today I sat with a woman kicked out of church for being shacked up with a man and a smoker. I thought of every woman in my old church with the exception of the pastoral team. And then I thought of how uncompassionate they had been when she was going through being abandoned by her adulater husband/ effeminate. Speaking of such men I had one of those for a husband too. So you have to extreme cases. One of unbelievers and one completly filled with law and not sprit. Yet Christ as along beside us. See me as one of the outsiders not willing to be further abused or neglected again by a "body" of people. She too feels the same way. Every time I visit her she is renewing her faith. The first day I met her she said she had lost it completely. If I wanted to play "keep up with the joneses' and "dinner party" I wouldn't have needed to be saved from Anarchy. Speaking of which. Maybe god will provide those friends that can speak into my life and fellowship with me through natural, normal, friendships. No more "clubs" for me.

No church will ever get it "right". In fact, the epistles were primarly written to correct the churches who were not "getting it right." The truth of the matter, lest we ourselves get puffed up with pride, is that unless God reveals His Word clearly to us, we don't "get it right" either - and we are the church - at least in one sense of the Word!

I have found that even when we hear straight from god we (me) can still get it wrong. We only see in part. I think love is the way to go here.



Because of the gross misconduct in my previous church I will not fellowship with any of the church going christian in the city as it is small and natural fellowship with these members occurs as well as they are the one and only Protestant Christian School and Homeschooling Network.

 

[Curtis]

I don't disagree with you friends for as Ecc. 7:18 states, "It is good to grasp the one without letting go of the other" and the following remains true...

Without going into the full implications, here are a few things we know...

- We are the "ekklesia" - the "called out ones of Yah" (Matt 16:18)
- We are a kingdom of "kings and priests" a "royal priesthood" (Rev 1:6, 1 Pet. 2:9)
- Our ministry giftings are given until "we all come to the unity of belief..." (Eph 4:11-13)
- We are not to exercise leadership as the "gentiles exercise lordship over them" (Mk 10:42)
- We definitely don't want to be like Diotrephes who "loves the preeminence" (see 3 John 1:9)
- We are to avoid the "doctrine of the Nicolaitians" (Greek nikao, to conquer, and laos, the people) (Rev 2:6)
(I understand the dispute relating to "Nicolaitians" but the same is implied above)

We also know with great certainty unfathomable corruption has lead to a loss in the very foundations upon which we are to build (Ps. 11:3) and truly "our fathers have inherited lies". (Jer 16:19)

Interestingly, the assembly is to be an assembly of "called out ones". The question is "called out" of what? Obviously we are not called out of the very assembly of "called out ones" or we would be caught in an infinite loop of fragmentation. I think it is faithful to say that we are "called out" of the world and false religious systems. There could very well be assemblies of this nature that may in ignorance bear a variety of names and "affiliation".

We can not paint with an overly broad brush, but this much is very certain...

If we seek the truth with a truly diligent heart, it will be found.

I just asked my eight year old boy to define diligence and this is what he said...

Diligence is a learnable skill which combines: creative persistence, a smart-working effort, rightly planned and rightly performed in a timely, efficient and effective manner to attain a result that is pure and is of the highest quality of excellence.

Now, I must admit that I had all my children memorize that definition and also true that I don't have it memorized myself. (obtained originally from a book on Solomon) Thus, the need to ask my 8 year old when writing this.

Another thing is also definitely true and is this...

Strongholds of the enemy can blind our minds from the truth and the possession of one truth does not in anyway imply the possession of all truth. Nor does the possession of truth imply that one is not entirely deceived to the point of great danger in other areas.

One more thing faithful truism...

Assembling ourselves together is "church". Provided that we ourselves are the "called out ones of Yah" or "ekklesia" assembling together.

Note: The origins, etymology, and implications of the world "church" are highly suspect and were entirely rejected by many early "reformers". It's use as far as it's application to the what is referred to in the scriptures did not begin till the 3rd century and the great paganization implementation that ramped up to full speed during that time. The words connection itself (to be distinguished from the misinformed users of the term) to sorcery bares the most resemblance to "the whore" as opposed to "the bride". It is interested to note those in the whore are called specifically to "come out of her my people and be ye not partakers of her sins". Rev. 18:4

Note that "my people" implies that many who are legitimately His people are in the whore, yet called out.

Exciting days are ahead my friends!

Sincerely,

Curtis