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Help...Advice?

SouthernCross

SouthernCross

Member
Male
Hi all,

I shared my a story some time ago, it can be found here viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4303 for those needing a refresher. I'm not very active when it comes to posting, but I do read a lot of the posts and because of that feel like I know a lot of you :) I would really value input into my situation.

Little has changed since my introductory post. Last year I tried to share with my wife some of the more foundational ideas of Biblical Marriage, such as loving patriarchy, using Samuel's booklet as a 'soft' entry into plural marriage - but the moment we arrived at the PM section she became openly hostile and enraged. Basically, she has 'banned' me from ever mentioning the topic again - she knows what I think about plural marriage, but wants to avoid it completely by making this topic a no-go area of conversation.

Even before I started exploring Biblical polygyny, she had a pretty violent temper. Most of the time, it's a 'fight' response to a threat - real or imagined - and it takes a huge effort on my part to weather each storm and calm her down. I can't tell you how many times she has threated to leave - impotently, but it still hurts - over issues that are generally, from my perspective, mountains out of molehills. Part of me wonders if it's not also a subconsciously conditioned cultural feminist response to life in general - the feminist rage against life that seeks to destroy all it cannot control. Whatever the reasons (and believe me, I've thought and prayed about it a lot), my wife's hair-trigger rage has effectively shut down all discussion on PM. Obviously, I could 'pay the price' and raise the topic again, but I'm honestly not sure how much my heart and mind could take. I'm constantly having to defend my thoughts and actions against horrific accusations that are simply not true.

Don't get me wrong, my wife is a beautiful, caring, sensitive Christian woman and I love her deeply - but when it comes to feeling threatened in any way, she allows the rage to overcome her. She knows it's a problem and is working and praying hard to correct this behaviour. But as for another PM discussion, I'm not sure she would responded to me with any level of calmness or self control.

Which leaves me feeling stymied. The most I have managed to get from her is a grudging acceptance that PM is not sinful - but that was months ago in the middle of the 'discussion' (fight), and we have never talked about it since.

I'm stymied for the simple reason that there is a woman - long term, friend of both my wife and I - that God is commanding me to make my wife. I have not yet mentioned so much as a hint to her about PM, but I know that she is on board with me, my goals, my calling, my life, and my family. The three of us share so much already, but she lives in another city and we only see each other physically a few times each year. I know, however, that she would move to live with us if she was given the opportunity. Economically, this makes sense for us, and I would like to be able to suggest it regardless of PM. I fear, However, that any suggestion of her moving in with us would be interpreted by my wife as an reignition of the polygyny contention.

And so I'm stuck. In my heart and prayers, the three of us are already a poly unit, but any further physical manifestation is, as I have shared, blocked by forces beyond my control; it will take a miracle from Father to move us forward.

There are three specific areas I would like advice on:

1) I recently read this post viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4421, which gave excellent insights into the emotional roller-coaster a first wife is put through on the PM journey, and I would really like to hear from any first wives on this forum who successfully transitioned to PM, when it was their husband who initiated the processes. Basically, I want to know, 'is there hope for me and my family?' Can we make a successful transition, despite the fact that my wife does not currently understand PM, and experiences all sorts of damaging emotions and behaviours whenever the topic is raised? Most importantly, 'How can I help my wife?' What, if anything, can I do?

2) Up until now I have not so much as breathed a word to my intended second wife about Biblical polygamy. I've wanted to preserve the integrity of the situation and not 'go behind my first wife's back', but rather when the time is right (ie when my first wife is on board), make a united presentation to our friend, and go from there. The fact is though, that in some ways I am relating to our friend emotionally as if she was already my wife, and wonder now if I should share with her my thoughts about Biblical polygamy, and how it relates to our situation specifically - a problem shared is a problem halved, kind of thing. But I fear that this might create an unintentional 'alliance' that my first wife would not be part of, setting us up for bitterness and other problems later on. So - should I say something, or should I continue to hold my tongue?

3) Regardless of the issues connected with PM, the three of us are keen to explore ideas around what I call 'common-life Christianity'. We have fallen off the institutional Church wagon, and are looking for more authentic ways to live as disciples of Jesus. Living as community is, I believe, the best way to do this, even without poly relationships. For us to do this, however, requires one of us to move interstate. Such a big move/commitment does not come lightly, but my intended second wife has more or less said - give me somewhere to live, and I'll be there. The problem, as I see it, is that if I start planning house renovations, my first wife is likely to question my motives, and I don't think the PM question can then be avoided. So all three of us are caught in the tension of what needs to happen for our economic and emotional survival, and the uncomfortable bridge that we need to cross to get there. So - is there any point in seeking to live together, as a fledgling Christian community, without addressing the PM question first?

I'll stop writing now, and look forward to everyone's thoughts :)
 
As a person who sat in that boat myself, I can understand the frustration of it all. I was banned from speaking of it as well! My wife thought I was looking to save every single mother who crossed our path. My excitement about "the veil being lifted" surely didn't help I'm certain. My response to her hostility was simple, I honored her request and never spoke to her again about it. I learned this technique from the "love not force" website. I kept learning about patriarchy and family responsibilities on my own. I ordered Tom Shipley's book and dove into it. (I need to read it again) I did so without my wife, my basis for this was simple, she may not be ready but I can be when the time comes. If polygyny ever happens for my family, I believe it now takes men of a greater quality and integrity than the way I was raised.

Long story short, better yourself and pray for her. She will notice and begin to wonder. Let God do the rest.
 
I would say my main advice would be to focus on the core issues your wife has. If a rage response is her go to for just about any situation, then there are probably some wounds and insecurities that need healing and addressing. I would imagine that even should she somehow agree to PM without addressing those core issues and you move forward then your home life might soon be something that caused you a lot of grief.

As far as the friend goes, it does sound like there is a lot of potential there, but I'd caution you to not "count your chickens" too soon there. If there's been no actual discussion of pm, then it's really hard to judge how someone will react. We've had some pretty... strong... negative reactions from people we did not expect them from when they learned about our beliefs.
 
Leaving aside the 'how' for just a moment, if God is, as you've said, commanding you to make this other woman your wife... can't let anyone derail you from being obedient.
 
Yeah, but it's really, really easy to hear our own desires as commands from God. Not saying that's the case here, but it often is. Rarely in the Bible does God command people to marry, and probably more rarely does he command them to do the thing they already want to do.
 
Yes, I knew that word would get me into trouble :p It's a strong word, and I know I need to be careful not to use flippantly. Of course I'm always ready to be corrected, but I've checked and rechecked my motives, and I say with a clear conscience that I'm not claiming to be 'commanded by God' simply to justify my own pre-existing desires. This woman has been a friend for many years, and even when she was engaged to someone else I had no desire to 'rescue her' etc. At that time I had no revelation of PM. That has only happened in the last couple of years, directly because of her presence in my life.
 
Here's my problem with this, according to your post your first marriage is not in a condition to add a second. You speak of being afraid of your wife and her temper and of her forbidding you to speak of polygyny.

To me this sounds like a you need to establish a patriarchal marriage with the first wife before you try to pile on a second marriage. Remember, your goal here is to have two wives. That will not be the case if you add a second only to lose the first. Take heart though, if your wife admits that polygyny is scriptural then she is likely coming around a little at a time. Stay the course. The second wife won't want to join a chaotic situation anyway if she is a wife worth having.

Good luck. Go slow.
 
Hi, SC! Long time, no chat!

You are representing here that God has made plain to you his will for your relationship with your friend. With UG's cautions in mind, I'm going to take you at your word and consider that matter settled. If anything I write below bothers you, though, then I would invite you to go back and revisit how sure you are re what God is speaking to you.

Maybe you should go slow, and maybe the goal is to have two wives. But at this point the goal should be to be obedient to God's commandment, right? "My sheep hear my voice...", etc.? All you can do is follow God's direction; you are not responsible for the obedience of others. And sometimes our good faith obedience to God costs us in ways we'd rather it not....

So I resist the notion (maybe implied by ZA/UG, maybe not), that you should proceed at a pace your first wife can deal with. This may be the situation that forces her to deal with her flesh once and for all; you won't know until years from now.

Put another way, achieving the goal may take time, but the process can start today. Put another-nother way, your obedience is a process, and the "goal" is whatever happens as you submit yourself to his loving command.

I'm curious: Does your wife see you submitting to God in other ways? Is being led directly by God a feature of your life together? Has she ever seen you follow God is a way that cost you dearly but her not so much (the opposite of how she might see her "giving up" her monogamous relationship with you)?

If a prophetic walk is something she's familiar with and trusts, then saying "honey, you know I love you, but I have to do this" should be familiar territory, and would add credibility to your claim now to be hearing from God on this. If it's not, that's a separate problem.

Bottom line, though, is that if you are truly hearing from God that his will is to wed this woman, then that needs to get out on the table, and the sooner the better. The fallout from that announcement will be the process that gets everybody where they're supposed to be. But there's no reason to be coy, let alone misleading, let alone deceiving, about what you're doing or why you're doing it. Get it out in the light, man.

To wife: "I love you with all my heart, and I mean to love you until death to us part. I know you have a problem with this, but that problem of yours is putting me in a position where I have to choose between you and God, and I choose God. I hope you will follow me in this as I follow Christ, but I will understand if you just can't get there yet, and I will pray for our ultimate reconciliation if you choose to turn back at this time. I sincerely hope that you won't do that though. I love you."

To friend: "I love you, and I believe that God has called me to ask you to be my wife. My first wife is having a serious problem with that, but all I can do about that is pray for wisdom and trust that God will work out his ultimate will for all of this as I continue to focus on him and his voice and do what I believe he has called me to do. Ultimately she is responsible for the choices she makes. My choice, however, is to trust God and follow his call on my life. So I don't know for sure how we get there from here, or who will still be standing when all the smoke clears, but I want you to know that I want to be your husband, and I want you to be my wife. I love you."

Something like that, anyway!... :)

Now you're in full obedience to God, you're walking in the light, and whether this ends up being your walk to Jerusalem and crucifixion or a trip up the mountain to find a ram in the bushes will be in the Lord's hands. I'll be praying for your strength and wisdom.
 
Andrew's advice is almost perfect. I wouldn't change it in any substantive way; IF your call to marry this woman is real. If it is then that is a rare thing. It doesn't seem that God has issued calls like that very often. Be sure of your calling. A lot of men have mistaken an intense desire for a specific call.
 
ZecAustin said:
. . . IF your call to marry this woman is real.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the $64 question, isn't it? Zec, you and I are on the same page, and I don't mean to downplay the strong qualification that this is all predicated on 'knowing that you know that you know' that this is what God has called you to do and be.

SC, if "that's your story and your sticking with it", then in a sense you're asking us whether you should obey God or not, and the correct answer is "yes, of course". Now the question is "how do you get there from here?", and a key strategic imperative should be to "walk in the light", "speaking the truth in love". Count the cost (both inevitable and potential), brace yourself, and start lovingly and sincerely sharing with the women what you believe God is calling you (and thus by extension all of you) to do. We'll be praying for you, and of course you'll be able to get some tactical advice and support here as the situation develops.
 
The part I liked the best about what you had to say Andrew was the willingness to let the first wife be unhappy and choose to follow God or not. It seems like we try to wiggle in sideways a lot of times and hope buy the time everyone notices what we've set in place they'll have become acclimated to the situation. You should type up that conversation you detailed as a script to distribute to husbands. It was superb.
 
ZecAustin said:
The part I liked the best about what you had to say Andrew was the willingness to let the first wife be unhappy and choose to follow God or not. It seems like we try to wiggle in sideways a lot of times and hope buy the time everyone notices what we've set in place they'll have become acclimated to the situation. You should type up that conversation you detailed as a script to distribute to husbands. It was superb.
Click to expand...
You are too kind. :oops: But thank you.

I feel driven to add here for any man reading this thread that if it doesn't break your heart to look your wife in the eye and tell her you're following God with or without her, you're doing it wrong. Our culture has done a pretty thorough job of screwing up a lot of our ideas when we were young and impressionable, and even women who love God and love their husbands with all their hearts can have a hard time getting their minds (and hearts) around the idea that THIS would be God's will for their life and their marriage. If she has any doubt that you love her and would spare her any pain short of compromising your relationship with God, you're probably not gonna make it. But if she has any doubt that you're God's man and that ultimately His will is more important than even hers, then that has its own set of problems. On the upside, you'll become a better man and have a closer walk with God, so don't give up. One day at a time....
 
Deleted my previous reply after pondering it a bit longer.

This all depends on what your goal is.

If your goal is to have two wives, don't do it. This situation has every possible marker to indicate a complete disaster. In the natural. If you do this under your own strength, the most likely outcome is that your first wife leaves, so you end up a monogamist if the new marriage works out or a bachelor if it doesn't. And you certainly wouldn't be the first man to end up in that situation.

But if your goal is to obey God whatever He tells you to do, and you are 100% certain that He is telling you to marry this other woman, do it. Be sensible and prayerful about it, take things as slowly and cautiously as will fit into God's plans, do whatever you practically can to get your first wife on-board, but obey God. He's more important than anything else. Although if you were to do this in the natural it doesn't look like the outcome would be great, with God all things are possible.

And whatever the outcome is, it might be the outcome He intended all along, even if it isn't the outcome you expected or desired.

Matthew 19:26 “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
v29: "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life."
That last verse is one we never like to actually cite in this context. We're a marriage support ministry. Our goal is to help preserve marriages and families, not to put them in danger of division. But it's in the Bible. If it comes to that, still follow God. But hopefully it will not come to that.
 
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