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Help me understand...please

W

wonderlandalice49

New Member
I have questions if anyone would care to answer. If you, the men and women here, would please take time to answer...I am most certain more than just me will grasp a new understanding of this alternative way of life. I mean no disrespect in any form or fashion but the questions I have I am most certain crosses the mind of any monogamous person considering accepting this kind of arrangement into their lives and the lives of their children. If you read my questions and at any time find yourself offended, please look at my ignorance as a product of our current society and narrow mindedness and help me and others who find themselves at this cross-road understand. I am truly sincere and would like to hear from both the men and women and perhaps young adults who were raised in this environment.. Please, lets begin. I met a man who did not reveal he was married in the beginning of the relationship. When I met him I knew he was very possible the man I had waited my whole life for and I fell in love with him. I do not know how long it would have taken him to finally tell me, as he referred to her as ex-wife, but I listened to the things he said and I commented one day "youre still married to that woman arent you?" he confessed he was And that he had lied about his age too. I was totally set back by the fact he was married and felt an extreme amount of sick guilt for loving him as much as I did. He began to give me bits and pieces of their relationship and how much is true I still really dont know BUT he did tune me into this site to read about how this all works. I have become fascinated by all of this but the problems I have understanding fall into the category of whats right and whats fair. His way seemed not quite right to me. I have been on my own since I was a kid. I have a fantastic job that pays well enough that I have no debt. I buy my own vehicles and pay for them, I own my own home, I provide everything for my one child with no help whatsoever. Now, back to whats right and fair to all if there is such where love is concerned...



#1). If one man has 2 women is there any reason they all have to live in the same house if they can afford separate homes.

#2). Anyone here in an interracial relationship and if so how does that work out?

#3). Just say, one of the women refuses physical contact with the man...for years, none, however #2 would never deny him. Does that change things?

#4). Culture and race prohibits one from obtaining a good job but the other can provide well for herself...what then?

#5). What if #2 pledges her life to the man, works full time, totally physical with him every way, needs him because she loves him not because hes her meal ticket or provides her lifestyle...is it WRONG for her to want her own separate home with her child and him if she UNDERSTANDS HIS OBLIGATION to the other woman?

#6). What about when he dies...is #2 just out of luck because she is not the wife. If #2 pledges her life to him and after 20 yrs he dies...is she 20 yrs older and up a creek?

#7). The man has children with a true exwife...none with current wife and never will...none with #2 woman but she would give as many as she could...because she loves him. Doesnt that count for something in this world?

I clean my own house, I tend my own child, I work full time and I love life...but I love a man who wants more than the woman he is tied to...making me the #2...now what do I do? What are my rights? Can a man be fair to two totally different women?

Please feel free to contact me personally as I am on a learning mission and appreciate any help so I can make a rational and informed "right" decision. Thank you all truly from the bottom of my heart, God bless.
 
Thank you so much fo writing, W-Alice, and welcome to our merry band. Hope we can be of help.

Ask all the questions you like. We're here to help, and not easily offended. ...

... Except by men starting relationships on a foundation of deceit. That's a truly faulty foundation, and I ask you to question how something built on a foundation of deceit can be trusted for the rest of a lifetime? Love is love, and that's fine. Many of us love family who are messed up. Friends, too. But dishonesty as a courting tactic? That's offensive. Love or no, I wouldn't marry that.

As to your specific questions: The Bible nowhere decrees that you have to share the same house, but DOES tell the husband to deal equitably with his wives in matters of inheritance. Interestingly enough, the right of access to one's parter for purposes of sex seems to Biblically belong to the wife, to exercise or not -- not the husband as in Western culture. The male's right works through his freedom to find and marry another wife.

That's the nutshell version. The rest of the story, however, is that if you DO marry, you accept the man's headship over you. In some ways, it's like having a boss in a job you can't just quit. Better work out those details BEFORE saying "I do!" Housing, job, inheritance, location, use and control of your finances, potential children ...

More than one potential plural marriage has failed to come together because of these very, very pracitical issues. The husband has a very clear picture of how he wants his family to work -- fair enough. He has EVERY RIGHT to do so. The woman who is considering marriage into that family has ideas of her own -- fair enough. She has EVERY RIGHT to do so.

If those sets of ideas don't match in ways that are important to either party, the marriage should be considered more carefully and perhaps avoided. This has nothing to do with love. You may well love certain people for life with whom you would not make a good match. Oh well. Find someone to marry with whom you will.

Bottom line, IMHO ... you have every right to negotiate these issues now, before marriage. You ought to. And every right to walk away if the negotiations do not go fairly from your point of view. You ought to. It won't get better later. And by all means, feel free to get it in writing.

As to inter-racial? Race, Schmace. *shrug* We're all pretty much mongrels, anyway, but hopefully all with one Father.
 
Alice, dear one whose name means "truthful one,"

I am saying a HUGE amen to Cec's post, (which I almost always do, as he is a dear and wise bro to both Steve and me.) I cannot tell you how sorry I am that you were deceived into discovering the truth of biblical marriage as it is expressed in plural marriage. Good gravy, what an oxy-moronic situation!

Pray and fast, girl, as Yeshua leads you to. You sound like a wonderful,gifted, albeit wounded (aren't we all!) woman, and I can speak for all of us that we want to see you happy, healthy, flourishing in your giftings, calling, destiny, having your socks loved off and being used to build the Kingdom.

Feel free to write me privately if you want to.

Shalom and more shalom to you, precious, brave, daughter of the Most High,

Ali
 
I understand the 'deception' issue, when it comes to men who don't reveal that they are married, Alice. And while I generally second what Cecil has written ;) -- I will add a caveat here, for those that understand what the Bible says about "marriage" as opposed to what "the world" teaches...

I will start it this way, and perhaps the conclusion then becomes obvious. (And I won't attempt here to answer ALL your questions, just the one that seems most key.)

Most men who claim to be "single" and "available", and who have slept with one or more women in oh, say, the last YEAR even --
are married whether they like it or not. The same goes for those women, whether they know it or not. Yes, the situation is a horrid mess.

The bottom line is simply that "marriage" is not at ALL what the world (and the prince of this world) would like to convince people that it is. It doesn't involve licenses from government or "civil unions"; it comes from covenant sealed by sexual union.

If you met a man and he told you something that the Bible says, but the world vehemently denies, would you have listened? While I do not excuse deception, I will submit that there is a reason that the Bible talks of "stumbling blocks" and people who are ready for "meat" as opposed to "milk".

Have you noticed how many women who claim to be "believers" would slam the door on a man who admitted to being "married", but give their numbers to a supposedly "Christian" guy who admitted instead to occasional "sleeping around"?

I guess I'd conclude by simply stating that the vast majority of men looking for wives, or even a "hook-up", are liars -- or ignorant, or both. They just don't know it, or admit it.


Blessings in Him,

Mark
 
1) Our reasons for wanting one house no matter what is family closeness and family bonds, but in our case my wife has been with me since the start and actively helps try to find suitable women for a second wife. Anndrea wants our second around the house for her friendship and help. In one house it is easier to share responsibilities esp childcare, and, once again, its closer in general. I also do not want more than one house as it is semi-required for muslims and I like to maintain an outward difference.

2) Raymond Mossie is Caucasian American and his wife (and perhaps his second wife, congrats to him :) ) is South African. The relationship has been a tremendous blessing to him. He is not an active user but he has posted here. brYce Henderson from here in Canada married a Jamacan (or perhas somewhere else in the Carribian, sorry to him if I got it wrong) and is very happy. There are probably examples of failures as well, but I don't know them.

3) Refusing physical contact is a problem in and of itself. If a man refuses it it constitutes abandonment, and its probably the same or similar if a woman refuses it. This is a problem that would need resoulution in and of itself, #2 available or not.

4) For practical purposes I would say the one with the poor job should take care of the kids. But such a thing would have to be worked out in all the fine details of the relationship. I don't see this is any different than in a 1:1 relationship where one could get a good job and the other couldn't.

5) It is somewhat wrong to cause division and refuse compromise in any case, weather that be demanding one household or two. But desiring something is not wrong. As long as it can be talked though and worked out that setup is not unreasonable.

6) This is matter of a fair amount of controversy here. For my family they will have promised to stick together for the sake of each other and the kids, but it is not necessarily like that. Its something that has to be worked out on a relationship by relationship basis.

7) I would think so, I'm not sure why it wouldn't.


Probably the best thing to do would be to get to know the 'other wife' and see what you think of her and what kind of relationship you two would like (close freindship, distant freindship, minimal contact) and see how you're relationship with her changes how you view her and thus the whole relationship.

I would add that it is very distasteful to me when a man is not as upfront as possible about his relationships... I know you whern't asking about that, but I put my two cents in anyway, sorry if that offends.
 
I have read about more than one situation of this nature where a man handles the situation incorrectly. To my shame it is my story as well due to my own ignorance. Unfortunately the monogamy only mentality is ingrained into our society, and is even taught by our churches against what the Bible clearly shows was normative throughout the scriptures and should be easily understood.

What happens is that a man begins to learn of the truths that are in the scriptures, yet does not know how to deal with them. He tends to think, incorrectly, that he is one of only a very few to actually realize the Biblical truths that the Holy Spirit is revealing to him and therefore typically tries to make it on his own not realizing the resources available to help him. As all of us do he learns from trial and error, mostly error (at least on my part). As he has time to study the scriptures more and his understanding of Biblical Polygyny improves so will his ability to handle the situation. He will eventually discover numerous resources available to him that would have saved him a lot of heartache and trouble.

My ignorance caused a lot of pain and hurt that could have been avoided, and hindsight being 20/20 I could have handled the situation in a manner that would have included other individuals in the discovery of Biblical truths rather than being a lone ranger.

Only you can determine if his mistakes can be forgiven and trust can be built between you. If he truly loves you he should be willing to ask you to forgive him and at that point you should forgive him. With the attitude you project in your post I think that he is a very fortunate man, and that you could have a long and satisfying relationship with him as your husband.
 
Scarecrow said:
If he truly loves you he should be willing to ask you to forgive him and at that point you should forgive him.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Perhaps.

Another onr of those things churches teach in error is that forgiveness must be automatically coupled with forgetfulness. Not Biblical. Two different words for two different concepts and events.

I would counsel a WHOLE LOT of caution over letting the two be combined and going on as though it never happened.

For whatever it is worth, Scarecrow, a whole lot of men choose honesty from the get-go. Those who don't ... *shaking head* I truly hope that you are correct and they simply learn from their mistakes. My own observations tend towards far less optimism. *sigh*
 
Forgiveness indeed is completely different from forgetfulness…the two are unrelated. Whether or not he does it again she cannot control. But she is in love with the man, and if he repents and asks forgiveness she is to forgive him. It would be good for her to explain to him how what he did hurt her so that he will think twice about doing it again…that is about the extent of her influence over the matter. She should not forget, but at the same time she should not ever bring it up again if she truly has forgiven him. We are to emulate our savior who freely forgives when we come repenting of our sin and ask forgiveness.

Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

It is important that repentance and asking for forgiveness are required of the sinner whether it is against God or an individual before forgiveness is granted.
 
Thank you all for taking to time to help me figure this all out. I was told just the other day that I would never be able to accept this life style...So far you guys have been a blessing to me because I was feeling really bad and narrow minded when I signed up here yesterday to ask for help understanding...please keep on, I truly appreciate the time and consideration you have shown. I come here ignorant, in search of what? Well, Im still ignorant but I am here for a reason I guess. Paths dont cross just to make pretty lines in our lives. I did not come empty handed though and in regards to the post about forgiveness...I am big on that topic. That was a lesson hard learned for me and while it was my lesson alone the concept is adaptable.

So,to quote Scarecrow (if I may), "It is important that repentance and asking for forgiveness are required of the sinner whether it is against God or an individual before forgiveness is granted."

I do not require any person to ask my forgiveness, I am not in the position to remove the soils from the hands of the one who has done wrong, only that person can cleanse themselves. Just what am I talking about?...example:
He lied to me about his marital state. I can not forgive him, I do not have that power. If I say to him, "honey I forgive you", I am pushing him closer to the edge of a ravine he may never get out of because by giving him my forgiveness he will be pacified...not taught. I forgive him...thats too easy...no lesson learned, he Will do it again...and ask my forgiveness again drawing ever closer to the edge of the cliff of pacification. NOW, heres where its tricky...its not about receiving my forgiveness, I am not the factor...he is and until he is sincere before himself, he should carry his guilt until he knows in his heart if faced with the same situation again...what would he do? Would he lie again? And if there is the slightest doubt that he may...he really has not been forgiven...regardless of what I say. He has to know in his heart beyond the shadow of a doubt that if ever he was in the same situation he would not lie about it again...only then will the soils be removed. (and their are no "well, it depends on the situation"...)Wrong is wrong...I do not have the power to forgive them, but I do have the power to accept it and move on to the next day...without giving up hope for him.
 
I think we are saying the same thing in two different ways. “until he is sincere before himself” that is repentance. If your relationship with him is to be restored and grow strong this indeed is required.

Granting forgiveness does the most for the one that is doing the forgiving. Forgiving someone is the best thing that can happen to a person; at that point the anger, hurt, and tendency toward vengeance goes away, it is a healing process. If you truly forgive someone you remove that transgression from your mind as far as the East is from the West. That does not mean that it is wiped away from you memory, but it is bygone, never to be brought up and used against that person again. You can forgive people without them asking for forgiveness, but if a relationship is also to be restored in the process then repentance is also a necessary ingredient.

When we forgive someone it is forgiving them for their transgression against us. No we cannot remove their sin we are not God, but as the scriptures clearly state we are to forgive others, and those repenting of their transgression we are to allow restoration of the relationship.

Judas denied Jesus then after his crucifixion went and hanged himself, Peter denied Jesus three times but repented and his relationship with Jesus was restored. "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you."

John 21:15-17 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.
 
What was the reason for the first divorce? Matthew 19 7. Only adultery would have been means. The deceit part I completely agree with Cecil. Levitcus 19 11. I also would like to know what your religious beliefs are. Plural marriage, in my opinion, should only exist within Christians.

Seven
 
Virtually every individual I am aware of in scriptures practicing Biblical (plural) marriage was Jewish and listed in the Old Testament. Not that it wasn’t a common practice during New Testament times, I am just not aware of anyone in the New Testament that was specifically named having more than one wife and indicating they were Christian. I’m not sure where the Christian only doctrine came from; I have never heard anyone ever make that statement before. I don’t think it would be very easy to defend a Christian only Biblical Marriage scenario.

I also have my doubts when it comes to divorce. It seems that Erasmus may have taken liberty in expounding his views while compiling the scriptures. This link may be helpful if you are interested:

http://morechristlike.com/except-for-fo ... thew-19-9/

I believe that divorce is man-made and not allowed, recognized, or sanctioned by God based on these verses (and many many more):

Gal 3:15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.
(marriage between believers is a covenant – no license required)

Matthew 19:6-8 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?" He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
(“let not man separate” should be self explanatory. Moses “allowed” them to issue certificates of divorce; it was not commanded by God. “from the beginning” since the inception of time “it was not so” divorce was not allowed.)

Mark 10:11-12 And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
(hmmm…looks like Erasmus over looked this verse when he was manipulating the scriptures…either that or Jesus had a memory lapse and forgot to include the exception clause…let me see…should I trust Jesus or Erasmus…hmmm…I think I will trust Jesus.)
 
Thank you Seven
I truthfully dont really know, all I have is what I was told but the story has been mostly the same and it seems it ended because they grew apart and had nothing in common, the relationship was not growing according to him. I do believe just from what I have picked up on from him was, he had many women.
I was raised in a first united pentecostal church...one of the scary kinds...lol. As I grew up I have attended many services from all religions and I believe there is truth in all of them...yes, all of them. My family is full of preachers, reverends, ministers, pastors, fathers...what ever they choose to call themselves. My family is a consolidation of many but a great deal are pentecostal, and thats just fine...I have to find my own way and relationship regardless of my family. I do not feel I am wrong in believing in them all...its all about God.
 
As a wife hopefully I can help.
#1 It is not a case of have to, it is a case of how to keep the family together. Unless the houses are next to each other you have a seperation of the wives, which means that the husband is totally with one and away from the other.
If this is best for the family then it is fine, but I would not want that. It is much easier, imo, if you can be in one house, shared responsibilities in housework, childcare, easier for communication for all three. Of course it may be cheaper to have to houses than one large one depending on where one lives.

#2 Yes, I am. I am white and TC is Tsalagi (Cherokee indian). Mostly it is fine, but there are issues with his family, mainly his mom. She wanted to have cherokee grandbabies and that can't happen with me being white. Since we live in the Cherokee Nation, I am not a citizen so I have difficulty getting a job here and socially I don't fit in. Hard core aniTsalagi don't trust yoneg' (whites). So yes that is something to take into consideration regardless if it is a single or plural marriage.

#3 hmm... Any marriage that has That going on has BIG issues and I wouldn't want to be involved in it. "Change things?" Yeah. That would make a relationship with the other wife like walking on eggshells. Refusal of Sex should never be a "weapon" in a marriage unless you want to destroy it like blowing it up with a handgrenade.

#4. "Culture and race prohibits one from obtaining a good job but the other can provide well for herself...what then?" Same as health issues preventing that. The idea is 'family'. So the family would find a way to deal with whatever difficult situations come their way. Each wife would have something that she would add to the family that the other wouldn't, that might be that one is a "seller of purple" meaning really good at making money, which referencing issue #1 can be good for all being under one roof instead of dividing the family up into seperate houses.

#5). "What if #2 pledges her life to the man, works full time, totally physical with him every way, needs him because she loves him not because hes her meal ticket or provides her lifestyle...is it WRONG for her to want her own separate home with her child and him if she UNDERSTANDS HIS OBLIGATION to the other woman?" No. But if "#2" wants that much seperation for her own, as a "#1" I would have doubts over the #2's true intentions. Could #2 understand the man's obligation to #1 if that meant he couldn't leave her at home alone because she suffered a stroke or whatever and needs help with everything? Meaning he can't go visit over at #2's ever..........Going back to point #1 and 4.

#6).
What about when he dies...is #2 just out of luck because she is not the wife. If #2 pledges her life to him and after 20 yrs he dies...is she 20 yrs older and up a creek?
Click to expand...
 Not if proper paperwork is done. If a family trust is made with wills and life insurance properly prepared, #2 would be no worse off than #1. Personally since I would be #1 I would not want to be legally married and #2 not be. That can cause be a source of jealousy and bitterness and I do not think #1 and #2 should have any difference in status, except #1 is more experienced at pushing the husband's buttons (good and bad). :lol: The man is the head of household/s, so #1 should not be telling #2 what to do or not do unless it involved her (#1)personal safety or health, everything else is settled with the husband's final decision WHICH is why it is critical to be careful who you marry.

#7).
The man has children with a true exwife...none with current wife and never will...none with #2 woman but she would give as many as she could...because she loves him. Doesnt that count for something in this world?
Click to expand...
 Count for what? I don't understand why should it matter? See #4.


I clean my own house, I tend my own child, I work full time and I love life...but I love a man who wants more than the woman he is tied to...making me the #2...now what do I do? What are my rights? Can a man be fair to two totally different women?
Click to expand...
Absolutely a man can. The question is can that specific man can. I would venture to bet most can't and if #1 is unhappy with him, #2 will end up unhappy too.

There are a lot of details that have to be thought through before entering a plural marriage situation. For a prospective wife #2 though many are the same as any other marriage potential and then you add the additional family of #1 and can #2 & #1 be agreed on the situation.
My husband ran into a situation where a wonderful woman we both thought was potentionally a second wife turned out to be more like a stealth homewrecker and it became obvious because she had no want to even talk to me. ~Wants to be a second wife yet never talk to the first one? ha... not happening.~
 
W- Alice, you bring up many interesting questions. I have a problem with the dishonesty thing, myself. I think you might want to get that cleared up before you go any farther. I would caution you, however, to think that you can't forgive him until he feels the repentance in his heart. Your forgiveness has nothing to do with his repentance. It is your choice to forgive someone regardless of whether they choose to repent or not. And "teaching" him to repent might not be the best way to start a relationship that can only function properly with the husband as the head.

As to your other questions: Each poly family has had to learn -- through trial and error -- the best way for that family to function. Separate houses, one wife working, who cares for children, etc. There really aren't one-size-fits-all answers for these complicated situations. The most important thing to realize is that you will all be one family, and every decision you all make should have that as your focus.

Plural marriage is not for the faint-hearted and the man who desires more than one wife needs to be full of strength of character, resolve, patience and most importantly, love.
 
I thank you all for your post to my questions and as I have said before...in all honesty I mean no disrespect or to offend but I have another very blunt topic I need answered before I make my decision about my guy and becoming part of his life, so if you would be so kind...please remember I am young enough still to enjoy life and I certainly mean no insult, what would be an insult is to never ask about this and realize the hard way I should have ask.
OK, in breif summary, men can have more than one wife according to Gods will AS long as he can afford them? What constitutes afford? Money, emotional support, sex...oh my, did I say sex? Well since its out there now answer me this...What if the man is not as able as he should be during intercourse with ONE woman (because the other wont have sex with him anymore at all)...Say he can not hold out long enough to complete even on slight round but thinks he is "the man"...not only is he fooling himself he is trying to fool me into thinking its ok. Now does he have the right to ask for another wife if he cant provide ALL for her?
 
There are many ways to sexually please a woman. My first thought was that maybe he should spend more time warming you up before he gets to the finale. The primary provisions are food, clothing, and shelter. He is also supposed to provide his wives with their conjugal rights as well. I find myself asking questions because often a woman does not express her wants or needs so that I understand well just what it is she likes and wants me to do. The gals on this forum may be able to answer your questions better than I can because of my perspective, but it seems to me that he needs more communication from you about what it is you want him to do, and how you want him to do it.
 
wonderlandalice49 said:
Now does he have the right to ask for another wife if he cant provide ALL for her?
Click to expand...

There's a cute ad running on TV about puppies always wanting MORE!!! More walks, more tummy rubs, more ear scritches, ...

People are perfectly capable of being that way as well. Women are people. How can he be held responsible to provide ALL for her when she can move the defining point at will?

Fact of the matter is, the Bible nowhere says he has to be able to afford her. It is, however, common sense -- meaning it applies wisely to most situations. What the Bible says is that he can't rob Patty to pay Jill, so to speak.

Topping it off, Isaiah 4:1 prophecies of a day coming when things will be so desparate that women will beg simply to be able to use his NAME and SAY they belong, though they'll be providing for themselves in most ways. Weird.

So yeah, he can ASK. But the woman's got rights, too, such as saying, "There's some false pretenses going on here" or, "There's a difference between a debilitating medical condition, and a subnormal performance crowing about its prowess! The first I could deal with, the second can take a hike."

This is all supposed to be about making your life BETTER, giving you wings to fly, NOT catching you in a trap from which you can view the world in despair forevermore.
 
No No Scarecrow...there is no miscommunication...I am more then open with physical relationships and he knows exactly what is needed as I do with him...but the problem is his lack of physical ability and I really hate to spell it out more for fear of insult but he just can not hold up to the physical requirements (and refuses the idea that a blue pill will help...or yellow, whic ever a physician would prescribe)He thinks there is no problem and all men are this way...he acts. ALL MEN ARE NOT...I have had and up until him wonderful relationships with a couple of "full grown men" 2 use meds to help them function...one did not need them. MY QUESTION WAS: DOES HE EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR A SECOND WIFE WHEN HE CAN NOT FULLY PERFORM THE DUTIES OF A HUSBAND? Look guys, I dont want to write him off but with as many things he is asking of me I am beginning to believe he is not even worthy of one wife, AND I want to know the correct answers not only to deal with him but if ever I am approached with this again so I can make a correct and informed decision. I do not have to settle for this kind of relationship, I am 44, I am not hopeless, destitute, mentally challenged, extremly fat, ugly...or have a whole brood of welfare children...If I did this it would be by choice...not necessity. I do thank every bit of input you guys leave and find you all just awsome...and am so glad to know the truths about this way of life to balance the info from than some old codgers wannabe way.
 
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