High Value Male

[paterfamilias]

We all hear the term tossed around in pop culture with respect to singles, dating and the sexusl marketplace

What I am looking for here is a definition of the term from woman in the plural marriage community.

I know most ladies here are married etc but try to put yourself in the mindset of how you would be as a single woman wanting a marriage with children from scratch. Physical, educational, fiscal, personality...the whole thing

So, High Value Male =

 

[MeganC]

To be honest I didn't really think this deeply about my choice when I was making it.

At the time my requirements were few.

• I wanted to feel safe.
• I wanted to be part of a stable and drama-free family.
• I wanted to have children.

That's it. But even with such a short list of very basic requirements it seemed that most couples or families I chatted with or met fell short. There was one family that reminds me very much of the Pease family who were really nice people and then there was the family I joined.

The other couples/families gave me warning bells on some things. One couple was very interested in what kind of income I could contribute to them, another saw me as a sex toy, and the couple that reminded me of the Pease family didn't seem to agree on what they wanted from poly.

If I were asked what my requirements are now this is what I'd say and in this order:

1. A family that demonstrates Faith
2. A man who is an obvious leader
3. No drugs and no alcohol abuse
4. Debts are few and not a concern
5. The home already has room for another wife and more kids
6. Finances look good
7. Drama is at a minimum

 

[Victorious]

Listened to this YouTube this morning. What do you agree with? Disagree with? I have some new ideas on real scriptural masculinity, but still mostly questions.
Please share your reactions.

 

[NBTX11]

If I were asked what my requirements are now this is what I'd say and in this order:

1. A family that demonstrates Faith
2. A man who is an obvious leader
3. No drugs and no alcohol abuse
4. Debts are few and not a concern
5. The home already has room for another wife and more kids
6. Finances look good
7. Drama is at a minimum

Our family meets every one of these seven criteria in spades.

We don't drink alcohol or do drugs. Live out our faith daily. We have zero debts. No credit cards, no mortgage, no car payments, no loans, nothing. Home has plenty of room, finances look good, zero drama, super calm home. And we've been faithfully married for 31 years.

We've still found that the only women generally available have major drama and baggage. Maybe we're going about it wrong. IDK.

 

[MemeFan]

Our family meets every one of these seven criteria in spades.

We don't drink alcohol or do drugs. Live out our faith daily. We have zero debts. No credit cards, no mortgage, no car payments, no loans, nothing. Home has plenty of room, finances look good, zero drama, super calm home. And we've been faithfully married for 31 years.

We've still found that the only women generally available have major drama and baggage. Maybe we're going about it wrong. IDK.

So formula must be missing at least one key element. Otherwise, new wife would be found.

 

[FollowingHim2]

So formula must be missing at least one key element. Otherwise, new wife would be found.

The key element can be the other half, the new wife. There are very few appropriate women available for polygyny. There are many single women, even Christian ones, but a very small percent will ever be appropriate for PM.
The formula could be perfect, but that's irrelevant when there's an entire other person involved.

 

[FollowingHim]

So formula must be missing at least one key element. Otherwise, new wife would be found.

Also, you are assuming that God's plan is for @NBTX11 to marry an additional wife now. Things may not happen simply because that is not the plan for today. God may have a wife lined up for him who will not be ready for another 5 years. We need to be content and patient.

 

[Joleneakamama]

We've still found that the only women generally available have major drama and baggage. Maybe we're going about it wrong. IDK.

Women for the last 1700 years have grown up in a monogamy focused world. Most of them have never thought of plural marriage as an option, or realized that it makes no sense to look for a marriage minded man among those who remain uncommitted.
Most too are not exactly reasonable about what they want (are looking for). Like my hubby's niece who "Would never share "her" man" yet got into a relationship with a man who already had children with two other women. He also abused himself with substances. She left him (divorced) hoping he would get clean....sadly, he commited suicide instead. Now she is looking for a "family man" among the single men. One who will be OK raising their daughter....but who doesn't want children of his own.

Our first child was quite stubborn about some ideas. He didn't want to share my popsicle. If I offered him.a bite while I was holding it, he would refuse. If I got down the the last bite on the stick, and then gave it to him, actually put it in his hand, he would happily eat it.
Some women are that kind of stubborn. They might marry the man in 20 years after his current wife dies, but don't want to touch him while she's still touching his heart.

Then too, many women have not seen healthy marriages....even monogamous ones. They have no clue that it's possible to add someone to that mythical "happily ever after" without destroying it. I wanted a sisterwife. I had other people afraid that it would mess us up (mess up our happy monogamy) to add another woman to the family. I'm fairly sure his family and hers don't expect it to last.

Baggage? That is probably part of why those women are open to polygyny. They need help and support, and aren't getting it from the party animal they had their kids with.

It's just a bit like those birds that lay their eggs in the nest of other birds. The egg layers don't raise their own young....they fly off with not a care in the world. The other birds who's eggs were pushed out of the nest invest their lives into raising young of another species. My brother in law married a woman with two boys. They also had three together. She left him after he was disabled....even though he was still providing for the family.

You and your wife now have a different idea of how family life could be, but many will not be able to see that vision. What you can see you comprehend from that position of love and stability that is your current reality,... but some have never known that kind of love.

There may be someone with a ticket to your destination....who just hasn't arrived yet. Time will tell.

 

[MemeFan]

The key element can be the other half, the new wife. There are very few appropriate women available for polygyny. There are many single women, even Christian ones, but a very small percent will ever be appropriate for PM.
The formula could be perfect, but that's irrelevant when there's an entire other person involved.

Also, you are assuming that God's plan is for @NBTX11 to marry an additional wife now. Things may not happen simply because that is not the plan for today. God may have a wife lined up for him who will not be ready for another 5 years. We need to be content and patient.

@FollowingHim2 is going in right direction, althought is a bad plan which doesn't correct missing element.

New pro-polygyny women could be made.

While we can't predict behaviour of single person, modelling behaviour of group is possible. It's possible to predict cost of getting new customer, win ration in sales (number of sales/number of tries), number of job applies to get one job...etc

So it should be possible to predict expected number of new women to meet to get new wife.

 

[NBTX11]

Women for the last 1700 years have grown up in a monogamy focused world. Most of them have never thought of plural marriage as an option, or realized that it makes no sense to look for a marriage minded man among those who remain uncommitted.
Most too are not exactly reasonable about what they want (are looking for). Like my hubby's niece who "Would never share "her" man" yet got into a relationship with a man who already had children with two other women. He also abused himself with substances. She left him (divorced) hoping he would get clean....sadly, he commited suicide instead. Now she is looking for a "family man" among the single men. One who will be OK raising their daughter....but who doesn't want children of his own.

Our first child was quite stubborn about some ideas. He didn't want to share my popsicle. If I offered him.a bite while I was holding it, he would refuse. If I got down the the last bite on the stick, and then gave it to him, actually put it in his hand, he would happily eat it.
Some women are that kind of stubborn. They might marry the man in 20 years after his current wife dies, but don't want to touch him while she's still touching his heart.

Then too, many women have not seen healthy marriages....even monogamous ones. They have no clue that it's possible to add someone to that mythical "happily ever after" without destroying it. I wanted a sisterwife. I had other people afraid that it would mess us up (mess up our happy monogamy) to add another woman to the family. I'm fairly sure his family and hers don't expect it to last.

Baggage? That is probably part of why those women are open to polygyny. They need help and support, and aren't getting it from the party animal they had their kids with.

It's just a bit like those birds that lay their eggs in the nest of other birds. The egg layers don't raise their own young....they fly off with not a care in the world. The other birds who's eggs were pushed out of the nest invest their lives into raising young of another species. My brother in law married a woman with two boys. They also had three together. She left him after he was disabled....even though he was still providing for the family.

You and your wife now have a different idea of how family life could be, but many will not be able to see that vision. What you can see you comprehend from that position of love and stability that is your current reality,... but some have never known that kind of love.

There may be someone with a ticket to your destination....who just hasn't arrived yet. Time will tell.

Thank you for your kind advice, Jolene. We have no choice but to pray, wait, and continue looking. The other option would be to accept the type of woman with major flaws and baggage as we said. Not completely against that, but I just want to make sure we’re doing it right. This is forever and I’m really concerned about messing it up. I’m naturally a very cautious person.

 

[paterfamilias]

Most too are not exactly reasonable about what they want (are looking for).

Wait, whuuut!?! Girls not exactly reasonable about what they want?

Now she is looking for a "family man" among the single men. One who will be OK raising their daughter....but who doesn't want children of his own.

Not exactly reasonable you say. Lol

Baggage? That is probably part of why those women are open to polygyny. They need help and support, and aren't getting it from the party animal they had their kids with.

"I've had my fun and now I am ready to settle down" or "I've had a lot of bad relationships" etc etc

You and your wife now have a different idea of how family life could be, but many will not be able to see that vision.

A wonderful reason to make sure that couples have really talked out and thought out their vision. If you don't have a good clear plan that can be articulated to another party, we can not expect a woman to follow your lead.

 

[Keith Martin]

1. A family that demonstrates Faith
2. A man who is an obvious leader
3. No drugs and no alcohol abuse
4. Debts are few and not a concern
5. The home already has room for another wife and more kids
6. Finances look good
7. Drama is at a minimum

Our family meets every one of these seven criteria in spades.

We don't drink alcohol or do drugs. Live out our faith daily. We have zero debts. No credit cards, no mortgage, no car payments, no loans, nothing. Home has plenty of room, finances look good, zero drama, super calm home. And we've been faithfully married for 31 years.

We've still found that the only women generally available have major drama and baggage. Maybe we're going about it wrong. IDK

Three comments so far:

1. The list is Megan's List. Megan is extraordinary. By meeting that list, at best you are just 'qualifying' for the infinitesimal subset of Megans in the world.
2. You may be forgetting that this Thread started by @paterfamilias only asking what criteria "single women" have for "high value men." Yes, he said he was inquiring for answers from women in the plural marriage community, but (a) he didn't stipulate "high value already-has-a-wife" men; (b) the majority of women in this community are, in fact, 1st wives who have no sister wives, so they can only answer this question based on their criteria when they were looking for a man to have all to themselves and were very unlikely to be looking for middle-aged men on top of not looking for plural marriage; and (c) Megan C was actually among that very rare breed of female who was actually concentrating on becoming a subsequent wife in a plural marriage (circle back to the 'Megan is extraordinary' in point 1).
3. If you're going about it wrong, it's because of two or three things:
   1. You're failing to recognize that, given current circumstances related to real-world disapproval of polygyny, only women have the option to have high standards; you don't get to expect reciprocity. They want Jesus, but you better consider yourself lucky to snag Jezebel with 3 kids from 4 baby daddies. In fact, that doesn't stray that far from Scripture, which makes clear by the volume of such messages that the purpose of polygyny is to take care of widows and orphans, and it's probably always going to be unlikely that the leftover widows, orphans, unrighteously-divorced women and their children are not going to live up to the standards you had for your 1st wife (and almost certainly aren't going to meet the approval of your 1st wife).

   2. Baggage? That is probably part of why those women are open to polygyny. They need help and support, and aren't getting it from the party animal they had their kids with.

      Jolene is on the mark here (and throughout her response): the available pool predominantly consists of drama queens and the otherwise-tremendously-broken. (Also, neither Jolene nor Megan are representative of the average Biblical Families woman, so you probably need to wait to hear from some 1st wives who weren't seeking sister wives but now have them -- and, instead of asking for their guidance, ask them if you'd qualify to be the husband of their grown daughters.)

   3. Now she is looking for a "family man" among the single men. One who will be OK raising their daughter....but who doesn't want children of his own.

      Ah, the other side of the Unicorn coin. One side is young, good-looking virgin women who want to marry 45-year-old men with dad bods and have their babies; the other side of the Unicorn coin is men who don't want children of their own but want to raise the children of another man who wasn't good enough to keep around (can we say 'chump?') Just accepting the premise that you might not be good enough for these leftover women is delusional on your part. The only reason why women aren't already begging you to bring them into your family is because women thrive on attention and approval, and currently the level of disapproval for sharing a husband is so high that it trumps their common sense. If the vast majority of the natural pool of available leftover women is unwilling to consider joining your pre-existing family because of social stigma, there is NO amount of self-improvement or competing with other men that is going to change their minds. Sure, women will tell you up, down and sideways that you may improve your odds if you turn into a cross between Mister Rogers and Jack Lalaine (dating myself there), but either they don't know what they're talking about or they're just nudging you to conform to what they want you to be with no expectation that they'll have to reward you for it. In fact, the degree to which you assimilate the expectation that you "become a better man," that's in all likelihood the degree to which you'll be unsuccessful acquiring another wife.

Leftover women need you more than you need them. Period. And, if a man doesn't realize that his 1st wife needs him more than he needs her, he probably needs to straighten that out before seeking a 2nd one.

We need to be content and patient.

This assumes a 2nd wife will predominantly meet some unmet need of a man seeking plural marriage. Generously speaking, only one in a thousand will do so. For a man to be willing to participate in biblical polygyny is an act of tremendous generosity; for a man to actually have a functioning plural family is a tremendous act of tremendous generosity. I'm convinced at this point that a man is mistaken when he pines away for another wife (and I've been there myself before) -- because women benefit far more from marriage than do men. As men, we have a tendency to focus on the sexual fantasies related to considering polygyny, but that hour or two of sex each week (at best) will be overwhelmingly outpaced by the additional responsibilities a man has, not just for protection and provision, but for maintaining emotional sanity in order to prevent the chaos inherent in women left to their own devices.

So formula must be missing at least one key element. Otherwise, new wife would be found.

New pro-polygyny women could be made.

I agree, but it will take a concerted, coordinated effort on men's part, and you may be in the minority, @MemFan, but you'll probably like the next thread I'm preparing to start based on an article I'll soon be posting on Substack (@imnhvn).

 

[NBTX11]

So basically, as a married man, and being a high value man in general (at least according to my wife), bottom line is if I want a second wife, I need to be willing to accept the multiple babies by several men, multiple sexual partners past, ex husband in prison, now ready to settle down type woman.

I’m sure higher value women exist that are open to PM, but they’re probably being pursued by 10,000 couples.

 

[MemeFan]

So basically, as a married man, and being a high value man in general ((at least according to my wife), bottom line is if I want a second wife, I need to be willing to accept the multiple babies by several men, multiple sexual partners past, ex husband in prison, now ready to settle down type woman.

I’m sure higher value women exist that are open to PM, but they’re probably being pursued by 10,000 couples.

Are you at least able to get a lover?

If not, you won't be able to get a wife. Sorry. If so, you are only high value for your wife, not other women.

 

[NBTX11]

Are you at least able to get a lover?

If not, you won't be able to get a wife. Sorry. If so, you are only high value for your wife, not other women.

Yes, I could. But I’m not interested in only obtaining a lover.

There’s a woman interested in becoming my wife right now. She’s got baggage to the max to be frank with you. One of the reasons I asked the questions I did. Others are also quite interested but they have similar backgrounds. Were my expectations and criteria too high? That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

 

[steve]

So basically, as a married man, and being a high value man in general ((at least according to my wife), bottom line is if I want a second wife, I need to be willing to accept the multiple babies by several men, multiple sexual partners past, ex husband in prison, now ready to settle down type woman.

I’m sure higher value women exist that are open to PM, but they’re probably being pursued by 10,000 couples.

With all apologies to @paterfamilias for continuing the derailment of his thread, I am going to throw this in here.

Let’s say that there are 30 million women in this country that are anywhere in the ballpark of consideration.
Out of all of them, you only want one.
Why would you not have infinite patience in searching for just the right one?
People approach the idea of finding a sister wife in the same way that they search for a used car, just go out and find the one that best fits your needs and purchase it. The biggest difference is that almost all of the cars that fit your criteria don’t agree that you fit their criteria.
Jolene and her husband waited decades for “that one”. Cool yer jets, brother.

 

[NBTX11]

. Cool yer jets, brother.

Essentially what I decided to do, rather than go for the alternative.

My questions were about obtaining advice from you fine people, not about rushing things. If I wanted to rush things, I could have, but didn't.

Sorry for derailing thread.

 

[Keith Martin]

So basically, as a married man, and being a high value man in general ((at least according to my wife), bottom line is if I want a second wife, I need to be willing to accept the multiple babies by several men, multiple sexual partners past, ex husband in prison, now ready to settle down type woman.

I’m sure higher value women exist that are open to PM, but they’re probably being pursued by 10,000 couples.

I know it's a sobering pill to swallow, but your synopsis is basically correct. I'm not discouraging you from remaining available to cover another woman, but I am encouraging you to be pragmatic about what's available.

I’m sure higher value women exist that are open to PM, but they’re probably being pursued by 10,000 couples.

To improve the accuracy of your analysis, I would change that to, "but they're probably being pursued by hundreds of couples and millions of men.

 

[Keith Martin]

Yes, I could. But I’m not interested in only obtaining a lover.

I'm right there with you. No month goes by without some woman hinting or flat out offering herself up to have a clandestine affair with me, but the same women (even those who are almost entirely unappealing) are repelled by the idea of sharing me out in the open.

There’s a woman interested in becoming my wife right now. She’s got baggage to the max to be frank with you. One of the reasons I asked the questions I did. Others are also quite interested but they have similar backgrounds. Were my expectations and criteria too high? That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

Many of us have already been down the path you're now walking. It requires resolve to simultaneously (a) assess the situation after the rose-colored glasses come off, and (b) keep on walking. Frankly, some probably should take a different path at this fork in the road, if they discover that really all that was propelling them was the fantasy of getting some fresh nookie -- because, essentially, the total reality of being the husband of two women wasn't even fully contemplated; all that kept them going and kept them thinking that active, almost-desperate, pursuit was that sex on the end of the stick.

 

[Keith Martin]

Sorry for derailing thread.

As the OP of this thread, @paterfamilias can overrule me, but I don't think you derailed this thread at all. To me, his initial post begs the very questions you're asking.