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how and where to look for a a 2nd wife

David777 said:
Most women of today's society, by age 20, qualify as guilty of "harlotry" by Deuteronomy 20:21 standards.
Girls who have had sex before marriage are condemned to death, in the Bible.

Interesting ideas, David. And certainly former call girls would meet with a degree of sympathy among us, though I suspect most of us here are more concerned with internal beauty than whether the lady in question is "good looking" by some arbitrary standard or not.

However, for interests' sake ...

My Bible does not have a Deuteronomy 20:21. It stops at 20:20.

Also, I think you may have your concepts a bit more extreme than reality. Adultery, i.e. a woman what was IN a covenant, whether all the way married or betrothed, and who slept with another man, bore the death penalty. If she was unattached, you could say it bore the Life penalty. I think that you will find that he was required to marry and never divorce her!

Harlotry was another issue altogether.
 
David777 said:
Most women of today's society, by age 20, qualify as guilty of "harlotry" by Deuteronomy 20:21 standards.
Girls who have had sex before marriage are condemned to death, in the Bible.

David I think you are referring to Deuteronomy 22:13-21. This is a more complex passage than simply saying "girl you are condemned to death". To me, it is a passage about marriage rights rather than pre-marital behaviour. It is describing a type of marriage fraud, where a woman has presented herself as a virgin but the man discovers after marriage that she is not. Then the woman can be punished by death, and also it seems there is a shame attached to her parents by the fact that she is to be killed at their home.

In other words, it is a penalty for marital deception, and I think the intention of the law is to keep people honest prior to entering into marriage. In other words, a woman should disclose her position prior to marriage and allow the man to make an informed decision. And a postscript from me is that the man should disclose his position too, it is only fair and responsible.

But I do not think it is a prohibition against premarital sex. Rather it is implying that pre-marital sex devalues a woman and her parents.

Also I do not think it would have been enforced very often (opinion only of course). For example, Joseph sought to put away Mary quietly rather than strictly pursuing adultery laws. Mercy triumphs over judgement (James 2:13).

I should say that yes I am strongly opposed to pre-marital sex and have preached on the subject in the past. However these days I see it as more of a 'Gods best path' as there is scriptural support for the concept however the verses are more around rights and consequences rather than strict prohibition.

Regarding call girls, interesting thoughts and I am glad you have published them. In my business I deal with a wide-range of people, and although I support the concept of God's redeeming power, personally I would not marry a ex-call girl. I have a very cynical view of human nature and little trust. My fault not theirs. Regarding the bible and prostitution, I used to hold the conservative position that prostitution was forbidden. Now I think cultic prostitution is forbidden, and prostitution is shown as not a good option (calm understatement there, talking in a personal counselling voice!), however it is acknowledged and not forbidden. Bigger topic there, but things like Judah's sojourn by the roadside caught my attention. Food for thought (goat obviously).

ylop
 
Yes, Sorry about the misquoting of the Bible. I was referring to Deuteronomy 22:20-21, where a girl is sentenced to death if she's not found a virgin at marriage point. And I also agree that probably it was applied in the case of deception. A woman pretending to be a virgin and not being one.

A former call girl who by God's grace didn't catch any STD's, I think should be allowed grace among Christians who are poly-minded. Because usually they can't find a husband very easily in the "monogamist" world.

I think the allowance for polygamy in the Bible had the main objective of protecting the orphan women, the women who were without protection in the world. NOT so that Solomon could have 1000 wives. That was not (I really think so) the objective for allowing polygamy. I think it was to protect women, not to give free way to unbridled lust.

The only case in which polygamy would actually be commanded in the Bible was the "levirate marriage". A man should marry his brothers' widow, if he left no children. (Even if the guy is already married). I think God had the widow's welfare in mind here.

Single mothers, women with a past, are today's widows and orphans.

I find this situation in today's society:
Young women get deceived into entering the game of "dating". So they have their first boyfriend at 12 or 13, have sex by 14-16, and then the boyfriend dumps her. Then they feel "less valuable". They get another boyfriend, and same story. And they are looking for a guy who will love them, but after trying so many guys, they realize they are just being used by men. By that time, they are out of school, have no house, no profitable career. I think this is how some become "call girls", or dancers.

There is just SUCH an scarcity of good men out there. Now if these girls go to a church, they have to compete with the pristine virgins, for the good guys. If they go to a really good church (where most girls reach marriage virgins, among other things), they face a life of loneliness.

I would really encourage men here to consider adopting some of these women into their families. That would also be a good testimony for outsiders. Imagine a girl giving her testimony on TV about how she was rescued from her hopeless, dark world, and was inserted into a family, now she has children, love, security, etc.
That definitely would be a better testimony than when Warren Jeffs (Allegedly) marries 10 years olds. Testimonies like this would speed up the path to legalization.

I also think that we should start a church that is tolerant to polygamy, in order to offer FLDS to come, to offer girls in hard situations to come.

I think a way in which polygamy can be public and legal is by having many "girlfriends". I know many guys who are fornicators, who have many "girlfriends" and a child here and another there. But these don't care about them girlfriends, these men just use them. There is no covenant for life or anything. Instead, a polygamist could have many "girlfriends" but with a life-long covenant that doesn't involve the government. What's the government going to say? that it's forbidden to have many girlfriends?
lol.

I really think a denomination should be started with this mindset. Anyone living by PA? :)
`
 
sadanyagci said:
I don't find the finding of willing brides a problem in the USA. I've found many that would be willing if I were only over there. But one has to be adaptable, caring, loving, and extremely honest to get through to them. Most girls these days have been really messed up by the current dating system. Their hearts are scarred, closing off that nature that makes a good wife. It takes real love (chosen and applied) to get passed the defenses.

Even girls that seem hopeless very well may not be. We live in a world that really messes girls up. As a man, be the solution, not part of the problem. Really, when you show a girl real care, even if they think you are crazy (the polygamy subject can get that reaction), they can completely change on you. Just don't give up. Most have never been around a real man, and have been tossed around by "boys". Keep that in mind.

Also, most things people look for in relationships are superficial. One need not ask themselves the question "do I love her?, but rather "would she be a good wife and mother?" To love is the job of the husband, and it must be something in your hands to GIVE as you CHOOSE. As for what to look for, there are main qualities. Know what you are looking for. As husband, what do you want for your family? Will she fight you in those things, or agree to them? The only stipulation put on us by God is that the girl be in the Lord, so only put your own qualifications as needed.



This is one of the most insightful, caring statements I have ever read and in fact it brought tears to my eyes, this part in particular really got me..."Even girls that seem hopeless very well may not be. We live in a world that really messes girls up. As a man, be the solution, not part of the problem. Really, when you show a girl real care, even if they think you are crazy (the polygamy subject can get that reaction), they can completely change on you. Just don't give up. Most have never been around a real man, and have been tossed around by "boys". Keep that in mind."

I have to say that as a single mom who has worked sometimes 80 hours a week, yet still made it to every school or church function with my children, and have raised two of the most wonderful, well mannered, moral, devoted, hard working, intellectual...I could go on...children in the world, I am one of those girls that may seem hopeless in a way. I am 47, I am tired, I am lonely, and I have only had the privilege of knowing two real men in my life...my grandfather who died when I was 4 yrs old and my fiance who passed away 9 years ago. My husband, my father, my brothers, and any other man I have ever met were boys. I am not saying that out of disrespect. I loved my husband, my father, my brothers etc, but they were not and still are not Godly true men.

Now I am saying this for a reason, David does have a point to some degree. Some girls do fall into unsavory employment because they do feel "less valuable" and it may have some connection to early sexual encounters, but honestly most girls falling into a this downward spiral and needing for someone to love them has nothing to do with the sex part itself, it usually stems from the fact that in a great portion of this society there is no family unit, no steadfast fathers, or loyal loving husbands, (or great mothers either), no one to teach someone how to even be a great brother let alone a good spouse or parent.

When any child, girl or boy, does not have enough love, guidance,and stability growing up they wind up messed up. I was one of those messed up girls and I was born in 1964. I am a divorced, single mother and I guess could be considered a woman with a past. I didn't fall into a negative profession of any kind. I didn't drop out of school, I have a home, and I have a wonderful profession as an RN. I do feel like a widow or orphan at times that is true and yes at times I have wished for someone to love me, but it is only recently that I have come to really see all this about myself, clearly. The thing is that I have come to embrace the idea of PM and re-embrace my faith in God because I see so clearly that we human beings are meant to have a real family, with a strong father and a loving mother or mothers and be a team living in love and faith.

So yes it would be wonderful to save any woman who has fallen into a hurtful profession, I agree, because someone loving and caring for them would be the biggest blessing they have probably ever experienced. However, the best way to prevent anyone, male or female, from going astray is to prevent the hurts that occurred probably well prior to the start of dating and the only way to do that is to start with the strength of a loving, faith filled father and husband who can keep a family going strong. That way girls will not grow up needing to "find" love and boys will know how to be that good father and husband and will not "toss" girls around. Without everything and everybody working together, honestly, it just winds up a vicious cycle.

As for the original post how and where to look for a 2nd wife, follow God with both your heart and mind. Think with love, but yes also think "would she be a good wife and mother?" Think, will this person be a positive addition to the family and help the family to grow in a positive way through God? And the superficial stuff.... Let me just say this... I don't need to hear someone thinks I'm pretty or cute or whatever ever again. I have been hearing that for 47 years to the day, since 11/3/64 when I was born. Only my grandfather and my fiance, both of whom have passed, knew I was beautiful on the inside where it counts. I hope someone sees that again. I hope someone sees that in my daughter and I hope my son continues to only look at the woman inside and not the outside. I thank God everyday that my son will never be the kind of guy who "tosses" girls around, the one blessing of living with a Mom and a sister his entire life and having a wonderful Christian wrestling coach as his substitute father.

I say all this with respect. I just felt like some input from someone like myself would clarify things a little. Additionally, I would like to say that I wish I had lived a life without divorce and all the negatives. I wish I had not raised my children alone because it was hard and they a statistical anomalies because they should not be doing this well. There have been some low points, life is not perfect and we three have gotten through them as a team, but a team of four would have been easier on me. All my life experiences have just cemented my beliefs, made me stronger, and have led me to continue to hope to be a part of a bigger family if God wants me to be. I trust Him, it is because of Him that I don't need someone to "save" me per say, because He already has. Now I know that it would be OK to find love for the right reasons in God's time.

Jen M
 
I may have a different take on seeking a spouse than some others. I find it so odd that so many people advise letting God find you a spouse and not looking. Would those same people advise letting God find you a car, a job, a screwdriver? God will provide for us sure, but that does not excuse us from effort. I know God will provide for my family, but that does not mean I sit home waiting on a check, I go out and work. If there is no work I look. I know God will protect me from illness but I also use the doctor. I knew God would give me a wife and he did, but I had to work to find and court her. It looks like God may be blessing us with our second wife, we worked to find her and will work to court and integrate her with the family.

As to where to look, look where single women are. Use web sites like plenty of fish.com go on LOTS of first dates. If you will commit to one date a week with a new woman until you find one worth a second date you will be married soon.
 
Jen, your post was poignant and talk about tears,, You are right, we don't need anyone to rescue us. We
are asking the Lord to bring that Godly man into our lives, whether as 1st,or 2nd etc...
To answer your question from another single woman, we are here. If you are a part of BF fellowship, the
elders know us. As Cecil said come to the retreats, so you can see we are real people and the Leadership
at BF can meet you. All of us come with some kind of baggage, but as for me I will wait as long as it takes.
Excuse me for butting in to the Gentlemen only forum dede
 
mo.nurse said:
Excuse me for butting in to the Gentlemen only forum dede

Hunh! *grin* Hadn't noticed that is was gentlemen only. Oh well, we men have transgressed at times as well. Yer both excused fer great additions to the thread. :lol:
 
Awww... Cecil, there you go ruining our bad reputation by being nice and forgiving. How are we ever going to get these ladies to live in fear of us, if you keep pulling the fierce mask off and let people know that we are really teddy bears inside?

Seriously, some good posts recently. I, too, appreciate Sadanyagci's comments as well.
 
sadanyagci said:
...[Clipped for Focus]...
My advice... you're in a western country. Find a bride in another country, and import her. I'm in the Middle East. You should have a lot less problems with that than me, as Australia is a more trusted pace to live.
We actually tried this, but only once, and were disappointed with the results. Often the 'devil' is in the details, as they say. We sought a second wife from the Philippines for a number of reasons. First, it seemed the Philippine culture was much more 'patriarchal friendly' than the USA. Indeed, the USA is actually 'patriarchal hostile' (assuming you aren't from here and were unaware). Second, the culture in the USA celebrates the foolishness of youth and the 'do what is right in your own eyes' philosophy of the MTV reality show generation, so looking for a second wife herein seemed foolhardy (though we have since changed our opinion on that somewhat). Lastly, the Philippines have a strong Christian history, so we reasoned that we might find a willing Christian woman to join us.

We did indeed find a very willing woman, but there were problems in her life and she asked us to help her; which we did (i.e. money). Though it wasn't much (a few hundred dollars here and there), it fomented distrust in our hearts over time. In particular, we talked regularly via Skype, and my lovely Bride was involved in many of our discussions from the start. She was very interested in my wife as well, and they often exchanged notes between themselves. However, here and there we found 'seeds' of inconsistency that made us ponder the veracity of her claim to be committed to us. We then considered that we had no way of determining if she was a poser or not short of bringing her here; which is when we realized that doing so would already be an implied commitment to her. Thus, we were unable to reconcile our doubt without effectively engaging in a covenant relationship with her.

Had I thought more carefully about this from the start, I could have anticipated such an outcome. But by the time it got to where it was (we had clearly laid out that unless all three of us were fully on-board it would not work out), she had already devoted herself to us regardless and was heartbroken when we reversed course. Indeed, she called and called for days, sent notes, and even ten months later (recently) she sent a note inquiring about our well-being and wishing us well. Whether or not she was a poser, we will never know. However, it breaks my heart to consider the possibility that she was not. I never answer her notes because I don't want to lead her on (so to speak), but it is indeed painful to think that my careless fumbling approach might have damaged one of my Lord's daughters.

So, though it was a bit long-winded, in summary I just want to caution those that might consider going overseas to find a bride that there are many ways this can go awry, so you should consider first how you will be convinced that a woman expressing interest is indeed genuine.
 
ouch :!:

how painfull for all of you.
 
blitziod said:
I may have a different take on seeking a spouse than some others. I find it so odd that so many people advise letting God find you a spouse and not looking. Would those same people advise letting God find you a car, a job, a screwdriver? God will provide for us sure, but that does not excuse us from effort.

Great post blitziod, I agree wholeheartedly.

In plural marriage, like most worthwhile things in life, there is a huge gulf between having ideas and taking action.

We need to step out in faith, like Abraham, towards the promised land.

ylop
 
Scarecrow said:
...[Clipped for Focus]...
Of my wives I met this way; one is a High School English Teacher, one is an attorney, one is operating a business we set up to help support her as she finishes her degree in Business Accounting (upon completion we will expand our business), one is in the process of becoming a Registered Nurse (teases about taking care of me in my old age), and one is in the process of earning her degree in Business Management and will go on to work on her MBA to operate a business we intend to establish. You may have noticed that as I interviewed women one of my requirements was the ability and desire to obtain a College Degree (with my help). I consider myself an intelligent man, and seek intelligent women with which to build my family.
My wife is curious whether or not any of your wives are also on BF. If so, my guess is she's interested in an ongoing correspondence on the ladies forum.
 
Unfortunately, Scarecrow hasn't been on for about a month. I know that he is in the Philippines, so he may be having problems with internet access.

I quit looking. I was putting so much pressure on myself to 'finding someone' that I was missing out on other things.

Nathan B said something a couple of years ago that has finally gotten through this Missouri hard head over the past year.

"Become a better MAN, instead of looking for a better woman."

So that is what I have been doing. I have been studying, learning, working, preaching, teaching, writing....all the things I want to do, things that make me the better man.

I make a joke among friends on BF that I stink at polygamy (still single), but I can honestly say that at this point in my life, I am more fulfilled, and at peace than at any time of my life since I was a kid.

I have learned that a wife, or any relationship, is not necessary to 'complete' me. There is nothing missing. I have everything that I need to live and enjoy life.

Blessings,

Doc
 
I have learned that a wife, or any relationship, is not necessary to 'complete' me. There is nothing missing. I have everything that I need to live and enjoy life.
This quote deals with one of the major fallacies of the monogamy only doctrine. Eve was not created by God to make up for something missing in Adam. She was given to be an entity in herself that "helped" him in his tasks. Neither Adam or Eve were incomplete without the other. It was a created working arrangement. Eve was not a "helpmeet", "helpmate", "helpmete". She was a "help" "meet" or fit for him (meet = fit or suitable). That is to say, help meet is not a unique qualification or designation that is different than being a helper that can work alongside. No deep spiritual meaning here. She was to make his work even more effective by working along side him. I have used this expression and I think it says it very well. "I don't need you, Christ is all I need; I love you because of the love that Christ has put in my heart; I want you because of who you are." If we marry someone because they make up a lack in us, then we have not matured in our walk with our Lord. The only place "You complete me", is in the movie Jerry Maguire.
 
Ah-HAH!

1 + 1 is supposed to = 1. Not 3/4 + 5/8.

Doc is now a 1, and therefore eligible. Good job, Doc!!! And you DO like monkeys, right? :lol:
 
sorry,
but i am much more complete with my wife than w/out :D

(of course, maybe i am a fool and with her i am a complete fool? :eek: )
 
John Whitten said:
I have learned that a wife, or any relationship, is not necessary to 'complete' me. There is nothing missing. I have everything that I need to live and enjoy life.
This quote deals with one of the major fallacies of the monogamy only doctrine. Eve was not created by God to make up for something missing in Adam. She was given to be an entity in herself that "helped" him in his tasks. Neither Adam or Eve were incomplete without the other. It was a created working arrangement. Eve was not a "helpmeet", "helpmate", "helpmete". She was a "help" "meet" or fit for him (meet = fit or suitable). That is to say, help meet is not a unique qualification or designation that is different than being a helper that can work alongside. No deep spiritual meaning here. She was to make his work even more effective by working along side him. I have used this expression and I think it says it very well. "I don't need you, Christ is all I need; I love you because of the love that Christ has put in my heart; I want you because of who you are." If we marry someone because they make up a lack in us, then we have not matured in our walk with our Lord. The only place "You complete me", is in the movie Jerry Maguire.
But the scripture certainly says it was not good for the man to be alone. I suppose we could debate 'in what way' God meant this, but what is clear is that even in His creation before the fall, God concluded that it was not good for the man to be alone. This was the only not good recorded before the fall as I recall. It seems this single declaration of not good calls attention to the importance of this reality. Thus, it also seems biblically sound to conclude that not being alone is important for man, typically.

To the part of your post I emboldened, I'm not certain I agree; though I'll concede that our difference may simply be semantic. From the beginning of my experience with the Word, much of it was hard to accept. However, the conviction of His Spirit within me exposed the degree to which I did not (and could not of my own effort) conform; which left me feeling defeated. Engaging Him in prayer to change my heart that I might hunger and thirst for righteousness instead of wickedness worked! So I learned through experience that God changes our behavior to correspond to His will by changing the desire of out heart. I now routinely pray that my Lord will make my heart's desire conform to His will, because I know it is how He communicates His will to me; with the caveat that I need compare the desire of my heart to the righteousness expressed in His Word so I'm not deceived.

Consequently, it follows that if God manipulates the desire of our hearts to direct us to His will, then I would argue that opposing His will should conversely make the heart feel as though it is missing something. Our Lord expressed through Paul that celibacy is a gift from God. Through this same apostle, our Lord declares that He gives different gifts to different men. Surely some men receive the gift of husbandry; some in small measure (one wife?), some in large measure (many wives), and some in-between. For such men, though it might sound good among their brothers to declare that all they need is Jesus, it may not be true. If God has placed a desire in a man's heart in order to accomplish His will, and this man has not pursued this desire, then I would expect the Spirit to grieve the man in response in order to convict him of his rebellion. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Indeed, I believe any man not walking in his good works will feel he lacks something whether he wants to or not.

Finally, we might want to consider that if we fail to marry someone that satisfies the desire of our heart (i.e. makes up a lack), we may very well be doing so because we have not matured in our walk with our Lord ;)
 
To the part of your post I emboldened, I'm not certain I agree; though I'll concede that our difference may simply be semantic.
Likely so, I think it revolves around our understanding of the intensity of the word "need".
Alone does not equate to incomplete.
 
DocInKorea said:
Steve,

Maybe you are 'completely' complete now, eh?

Doc
no, brother
i do not believe that any of us still drawing breath cannot, and have no need of becoming, more complete.

let me hasten to add that collecting wives is not the goal in moving toward being "all that we can be".
 
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