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Imputed righteousness and Torah observance

One of the biggest issues I had, to the point of seeing suicide as one of the only valid rectifications of a apparent conundrum in Christianity, specifically with the Reformed side, was the absence of personal authority, while being saddled with ultimate responsibily... The very definition of tyranny.

If the Lord pre-ordains whether someone loves Him or not, then punishes them accordingly, then He is a tyrant as you point out, so I think you are seeing that same problem I saw. I had to find a way for the Lord to be soveriegn, AND have balanced personal authority to choose our actions, and responsibility for our choices.

I can thankfully credit R.C.Sproul for being a lying manipulator of scripture for helping me break out of my orginal "Reformed" set of assumptions. Once I saw how badly Sproul was butchering scripture I gained awareness of how badly I was interpretting scripture myself. Personal responsibility HAD to come with personal choice and agency.

In my first post on this thread, I did not use pre-ordained at all, in the sense of the Lord puppeteering our actions. Instead He ordained ordinances. His decreed actions. He stated His will quite clearly, and His will is spelled out in excruciating detail in the Torah. Now we have full authority to choose to obey or rebel. He has absolute sovereignty to judge us for our choices.

By changing the Reformed doctrine of the Lord decreeing whether you blink in the next few seconds and you have no agency to alter that, you only think you chose to hold your breath, to the Lord decreeing Torah; Suddenly all of scripture becomes more cohesive, and the Lord stops being a tyrant.

You do not need the predestination doctrine to hold imputed righteousness. He has soveriegnty to judge as He will, and He has already stated He intends to curse 10 generations of those who hate Him, and bless 1000 gens of those who love Him. That mercy is extreme! But ultimately, the Messiah came as a mediator, a go-between, so that the sins of Israel will not be charged to Israel, but will instead fall on the husband of Israel. Since His righteousness was so great, and His love of the Lord so complete, that His love covers over a multitude of sins.

He only covers His people though, he doesn't cover everyone. He makes it quite clear that those who love Him and obey Him, who work toward salvation with fear and trembling through obedience, those are the ones He claims. So we must make personal choice, and we are rewarded for our good deeds, and if we truly love and obey Him then our past sins, as stated in the terms of the Renewed Covenant of Jer31, those past sins will not be remembered, because they are charged on the account of the Messiah, who is able to be a covering for us, thus imputing His righteousness on those He claims as His. For Israel was bought for a price.
 
One of the biggest issues I had, to the point of seeing suicide as one of the only valid rectifications of a apparent conundrum in Christianity, specifically with the Reformed side, was the absence of personal authority, while being saddled with ultimate responsibily... The very definition of tyranny.

If the Lord pre-ordains whether someone loves Him or not, then punishes them accordingly, then He is a tyrant as you point out, so I think you are seeing that same problem I saw. I had to find a way for the Lord to be soveriegn, AND have balanced personal authority to choose our actions, and responsibility for our choices.

I can thankfully credit R.C.Sproul for being a lying manipulator of scripture for helping me break out of my orginal "Reformed" set of assumptions. Once I saw how badly Sproul was butchering scripture I gained awareness of how badly I was interpretting scripture myself. Personal responsibility HAD to come with personal choice and agency.

In my first post on this thread, I did not use pre-ordained at all, in the sense of the Lord puppeteering our actions. Instead He ordained ordinances. His decreed actions. He stated His will quite clearly, and His will is spelled out in excruciating detail in the Torah. Now we have full authority to choose to obey or rebel. He has absolute sovereignty to judge us for our choices.

By changing the Reformed doctrine of the Lord decreeing whether you blink in the next few seconds and you have no agency to alter that, you only think you chose to hold your breath, to the Lord decreeing Torah; Suddenly all of scripture becomes more cohesive, and the Lord stops being a tyrant.

You do not need the predestination doctrine to hold imputed righteousness. He has soveriegnty to judge as He will, and He has already stated He intends to curse 10 generations of those who hate Him, and bless 1000 gens of those who love Him. That mercy is extreme! But ultimately, the Messiah came as a mediator, a go-between, so that the sins of Israel will not be charged to Israel, but will instead fall on the husband of Israel. Since His righteousness was so great, and His love of the Lord so complete, that His love covers over a multitude of sins.

He only covers His people though, he doesn't cover everyone. He makes it quite clear that those who love Him and obey Him, who work toward salvation with fear and trembling through obedience, those are the ones He claims. So we must make personal choice, and we are rewarded for our good deeds, and if we truly love and obey Him then our past sins, as stated in the terms of the Renewed Covenant of Jer31, those past sins will not be remembered, because they are charged on the account of the Messiah, who is able to be a covering for us, thus imputing His righteousness on those He claims as His. For Israel was bought for a price.
It's a good point that one doesn't have to believe in predestination/election to hold to imputed righteousness (though I believe both). My dad and brother are solidly Wesleyan-Arninian, rejecting the Calvinist view of election, but when pressed on the topic of imputation told me that they do hold to it.
 
Ahhh... Reformed guys do love their theological towers... I once was locked in them and thought myself wise... then I started to ask questions that led to freedom. Freedom from doctrines and theological explanations for very simple things...

(Not knocking anyone, just expressing how incredibly freeing to toss the Westminster Divines and their lying Confession out the window.)

Faith followed by simple obedience. His Torah is very light, contrary to the forked tongue of those who say otherwise... I haven't thought about imputation, election, etc in nearly a decade...

Scripture clearly teaches faith, but it must be followed with obedience. His Law has never changed. Never will, either.

Torah is the most freeing thing I ever experienced once I got over the inculcated voices in my head trying to lead me down manmade paths...
 
Ahhh... Reformed guys do love their theological towers... I once was locked in them and thought myself wise... then I started to ask questions that led to freedom. Freedom from doctrines and theological explanations for very simple things...

(Not knocking anyone, just expressing how incredibly freeing to toss the Westminster Divines and their lying Confession out the window.)

Faith followed by simple obedience. His Torah is very light, contrary to the forked tongue of those who say otherwise... I haven't thought about imputation, election, etc in nearly a decade...

Scripture clearly teaches faith, but it must be followed with obedience. His Law has never changed. Never will, either.

Torah is the most freeing thing I ever experienced once I got over the inculcated voices in my head trying to lead me down manmade paths...
Strange 🤔
Trusting in my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ was the most freeing thing I ever experienced.
 
Scripture clearly teaches faith, but it must be followed with obedience. His Law has never changed. Never will, either.
Has your stance on this changed? You’re treating them as separate and distinct. Do works follow faith or as you have indicated before, are the works themselves faith?

From your blog post titled “The faith of Abraham. A thought.”
“Ya’acov (James) says, ‘Faith without works is dead.’ Avraham demonstrates that the works that justify (according to Ya’acov) is Torah.

Lest anyone misunderstand, we are saved by faith through grace to DO good works prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. I.e ‘walk as Yeshua our Messiah walked.’ (1 John 2:3-7)”

Here’s the link to the blog post:

 
Do works follow faith or as you have indicated before, are the works themselves faith?
Yes.... (both are/can be true)

Often the keeping proves the faith. Not keeping proves there was no faith.
 
True, but the works themselves are not the faith, correct? They bear witness to the faith that is already there, correct?
I'll buy that.

I'm not saved by my works if that's what you're aiming at.
 
I'll buy that.

I'm not saved by my works if that's what you're aiming at.
So, if you aren't saved by your works, then you are actually saved by Christ's Work (and then you do Torah because you have faith in God). Got it
Imputed righteousness even if you prefer not to use that terminology 👍
 
Ahhh... Reformed guys do love their theological towers... I once was locked in them and thought myself wise... then I started to ask questions that led to freedom. Freedom from doctrines and theological explanations for very simple things...

(Not knocking anyone, just expressing how incredibly freeing to toss the Westminster Divines and their lying Confession out the window.)

Faith followed by simple obedience. His Torah is very light, contrary to the forked tongue of those who say otherwise... I haven't thought about imputation, election, etc in nearly a decade...

Scripture clearly teaches faith, but it must be followed with obedience. His Law has never changed. Never will, either.

Torah is the most freeing thing I ever experienced once I got over the inculcated voices in my head trying to lead me down manmade paths...
I forgot to say it earlier, but thank you for your response.
 
So, if you aren't saved by your works, then you are actually saved by Christ's Work (and then you do Torah because you have faith in God). Got it
Imputed righteousness even if you prefer not to use that terminology 👍
I don’t understand why Torah keeping gets people so wrapped around the axle. Why is something that Christ and every hero of the Bible did now suddenly so controversial ? It was once a requirement of interacting with God and now it’s forbidden?

Answer me this, does your faith begin and end at salvation? Or, like the Pilgrim’s Progress, does your faith begin at the Cross and end at death?
 
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