I agree. I don't like it when someone suggests doing something differently but I do appreciate it if they can show me a way to do something better.
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General Let's talk Submission!
- Thread starter Bria
- Start date
I agree. I don't like it when someone suggests doing something differently but I do appreciate it if they can show me a way to do something better.
Ooo! I like the way you said that. Definitely food for thought! I don't think my husband and I view this phrase like this, but that could be something that needs correction and could explain why we(okay mostly I) get defensive when this is said
I will bring it up to my husband and make sure our understanding of this lines up!
I love Mrs.HisPossession's post on this thread. I agree submission is a beautiful thing!
I have always had a more submissive personality, but growing up in America I thought I had to become completely independent as soon as possible. As my 18 birthday approached I had a job, a car, and was well on my way to be independent, just like I wanted...right? I realized quickly with all the independence that I was gaining, I was also gaining all the responsibility that came with it. It was stressful to do so much on my own. God helped and blessed me all the way through it, but it wasn't what I really wanted. I wanted someone to take care of me and protect me (like how my brother in law did for my sister lol).
As My husband, sisterwife and I all learned more and more about patriarchy I became thrilled that that is how God designed the family structure. I didn't have to be this strong independent woman like everyone said. What a relief!
I don't know why, but I have always been okay with just taking orders from someone and doing whatever they ask of me as long as they love and take care of me. I love being able to serve my husband to the best of my ability and see the pleasure it brings him. Lol in one of the first few weeks of being married my husband asked me to put a blanket downstairs and I guess I looked excited to do so, but that reaction was very pelasing to my husband and he pointed it out to me and comended me for it. I love being able to put all my energy into making life as easy and enjoyable as possible for my closest friend. It also gets my mind off myself which is so much more fulfilling.
Giving all my time and energy to my one husband definetly takes all of me though lol. I still don't understand how a man can love two women as himself and treat them of both of them so well, at the same time. But I've seen first hand that it's possible. So I can't really say anything otherwise.
My husband does not just order his wives around, he is very kind and loving how he treats us, which I appreciate so much. I think that makes it all the more enjoyable to submit to him, at least that's how it is for me.
I have always had a more submissive personality, but growing up in America I thought I had to become completely independent as soon as possible. As my 18 birthday approached I had a job, a car, and was well on my way to be independent, just like I wanted...right? I realized quickly with all the independence that I was gaining, I was also gaining all the responsibility that came with it. It was stressful to do so much on my own. God helped and blessed me all the way through it, but it wasn't what I really wanted. I wanted someone to take care of me and protect me (like how my brother in law did for my sister lol).
As My husband, sisterwife and I all learned more and more about patriarchy I became thrilled that that is how God designed the family structure. I didn't have to be this strong independent woman like everyone said. What a relief!
I don't know why, but I have always been okay with just taking orders from someone and doing whatever they ask of me as long as they love and take care of me. I love being able to serve my husband to the best of my ability and see the pleasure it brings him. Lol in one of the first few weeks of being married my husband asked me to put a blanket downstairs and I guess I looked excited to do so, but that reaction was very pelasing to my husband and he pointed it out to me and comended me for it. I love being able to put all my energy into making life as easy and enjoyable as possible for my closest friend. It also gets my mind off myself which is so much more fulfilling.
Giving all my time and energy to my one husband definetly takes all of me though lol. I still don't understand how a man can love two women as himself and treat them of both of them so well, at the same time. But I've seen first hand that it's possible. So I can't really say anything otherwise.
My husband does not just order his wives around, he is very kind and loving how he treats us, which I appreciate so much. I think that makes it all the more enjoyable to submit to him, at least that's how it is for me.
I was rereading this thread and I just want to thank you all for your words. Also good to read that I am just a normal woman, recognizing my struggles in your stories. For me it all makes sense in my head too, but to actually live it……… Luckily I have a patient husband, always giving me a next possibility to do it right.
My 2 cents is that Submission to my husband is obedience to Yah. I need the tshirt. Lol 
Hi! It’s Jennifer. We met at the retreat. I was just thinking today about what sub means to me and how best to describe it to others. I’m a little rusty but right now submission means that my concerns are with my home. The rest are my husband’s concerns. Maybe my username should change to “Learning”
Yes! Thank you for sharing Jennifer! It's nice to see you on here!Hi! It’s Jennifer. We met at the retreat. I was just thinking today about what sub means to me and how best to describe it to others. I’m a little rusty but right now submission means that my concerns are with my home. The rest are my husband’s concerns. Maybe my username should change to “Learning”
1) One of the greatest realizations I had in regards to scripture and submission is that practically any verse about Our Father and His people can be applied directly to wives and submission. Same thing goes for worship songs.
At the retreat we just sang, “I don’t wanna abuse your grace. God, I need it every day…” And it’s been stuck in my head ever since. Only applied to marriage and the forgiveness that I unfortunately repeatedly need from @The Revolting Man. You know the Hebrews are so relatable. We are steeped in stubborn, selfish, and sinful behavior. 2) The easiest thing is to say you will submit. The hardest thing is to actually do it. Especially when you don’t recognize the problematic behavior for what it is, a power grab. Wait, what?! Hindsight is always 20/20.
3) Hard no. My mom touts mutual submission. My dad plays along. Happy wife, happy li—
4) I wish I could say I had advice but the truth is I haven’t traveled as far as I think I have. I seem to cruise steadily along for a time then forget to turn the headlights on and start careening wildly in the dark.
5) I am absolutely indebted to my husband for not only the force in which he has laid down the law and expects me to adhere to it, but it is he who brought me back to the Father and continues to wash me in the word (Eph 5:26). It’s dirty business and I don’t envy his responsibility at all.
6) Just a few comments on these amazing replies:
It’s interesting because I always feel the opposite. Maybe similar to MeganC’s experience with faith coming after marriage…?
This is huge!! If there’s a possibility of creating a new life with your marital relations, best be in the right frame of mind! In addition to that initial submission, pregnancy and childbirth is an absolute perfect way to practice relinquishing control. I often think about a sermon in our former church when the pastor listed all the areas in which God should rule our lives: job, schools, relationships, home, and (maybe since he was talking to college kids) rooms. I thought how close it sounded like “wombs” but oh no, they would never add that to the list! Everything else, but not that! “I surrender all…lalalalala” Oh surrrrre
This statement sums up what many in the world just don’t understand (IMO). Having the covering of your husband makes life that much more simple!
It is currently popular to say that women are oppressed by this notion, but submission is not about being walked on by a man…it’s about choosing a life where you submit as unto Christ. And that’s the part that seems to always be left out.
Rarely would one question a woman who chose to do, or not do, a certain thing if she said she believed it went against what Jesus had for her. But you substitute in the word husband and people lose their minds!
We have come to a point in society where the world doesn’t want to be under the authority of anyone (God, governments, spouses, pastors, teachers, etc.) and thus the idea that anyone would willingly submit to another person (especially a man!), must be the definition of oppression and abuse. We are not oppressed, we are not abused, we are not walked on, we are not without opinion, and we have a say…we simply choose to allow our husbands to use the authority granted him by our Father. And in doing so, we are blessed for our faithfulness.
The hardest part of submitting is doing it when you are most strongly against the options presented by your husband. True wifely and Biblical submission gives over those difficulties to our husband, as we would give them to the Father in prayer.
Mrs. S
So true. There was a show on Netflix I heard about from someone I just met and in the beginning there was a show and tell situation where parents were allowed to go to and this young (I'm guessing 11ish) girl was shouting "down with the patriarchy! Burn it! They say every good man had a good woman behind him but I say no! Every woman stood beside a good man not behind!" (Or something like that) And she was being applauded and her mother was cheering her on and it just broke my heart. Her father stood there silently until she pulls out a lighter to literally "burn" something and then he says to his wife "is someone going to stop her?"
Just the whole thing rubbed me the wrong way, I am thankful God opened my eyes to biblical submission because if he hadn't I'm sure I would be hooting and hollering with the rest of those ladies, blind to the truth, and not knowing any better. It's just hard watching that creep into the church too. It's always so interesting too as we meet knew women as potentials with the understanding that we live in a patriarchal household they also say "I have never been loved like this" it's so interesting how that is just engrained in us women to find a good leader and how letting a Godly man lead the house is freeing and loving.
Just the whole thing rubbed me the wrong way, I am thankful God opened my eyes to biblical submission because if he hadn't I'm sure I would be hooting and hollering with the rest of those ladies, blind to the truth, and not knowing any better. It's just hard watching that creep into the church too. It's always so interesting too as we meet knew women as potentials with the understanding that we live in a patriarchal household they also say "I have never been loved like this" it's so interesting how that is just engrained in us women to find a good leader and how letting a Godly man lead the house is freeing and loving.
I saw that trailer and just about threw up! Agenda much?? Ughh...
Submission is a topic I struggle with as it is really wrapped up in the church I grew up going to. Like many things I've had to take it back to biblical roots and YHVHs true plan. This means separating it from church institution rules/interpretation and what the world/feminism teaches.
What was the hardest or easiest thing for you to do when it came to the concept of Submission?
The hardest thing for me to to do has been accepting submission on a biblical basis again. I swung away from it due to examples from childhood, adults who misused it, and the influence of feminism in culture. I had developed a self sufficient way of life growing up due to family dysfunction. Its been hard releasing control and trust back to YHVH and in turn my husband.
Where you born and raised around it?
I was born into a very traditional Catholic family (Latin mass, pre V2 strict rules, etc.). They Definitely had the whole submission and men being head woven into beliefs. The church was such a dominating factor that I feel like it took away from the mans authority. The churches rules and influence on how you should live your life were so encompassing it didn't leave any room for the man to do anything but enforce them. I feel like the men and boys of our congregation lacked personality and personal drive and dominance due to this. Most cases the wives were the driving factor behind the religious side of the family and in turn in charge. In this way I feel like they were the ones leading the families. My mom and dad are divorced. I know the main topic of argument was religion. My dad was not really religious, Sunday only catholic, and my mom was all onboard to follow and apply all of the rules daily to the utmost degree. They fought constantly because my dad didn't want to. My mom had no respect for his authority in anything religious because of this.
Advice for those who are just starting out on this path?
Pray, study the bible, and be willing to let YHVH work and change your heart on a consistent daily basis.
Learning to accept biblical submission is learning to reprogram all that I was able to witness in my life and culture. Its hard to do in a broken world but the spiritual rewards are great.
Hi. I’m new here and not sure I’m using this right. This seems like the place I’m looking for. I’m a new wife in a fairly happy marriage. But there are some challenges coming up. I’ve been married to my husband for maybe half a year. I’m not from a Christian background and my husband knew that. I married him willing to make changes and have been adapting to his Christian lifestyle. This is all so new to me. I love so many aspects of it but I’m struggling with others. How do you ladies handle submission? How do you swallow your pride? My husband and I are best friends and I’m a career woman and have built a successful business and things aren’t completely traditional. But in behavior and expectation he is expecting me to submit to him biblically and I’m still learning. I’m not wanting this to come off as me talking bad about him. He’s very patient with me and we’re in love. I’ve just always been told submitting to a man is against feminine belief and self empowerment. I am new to women being empowered through submission. For instance we have a great new sex life and I am very attracted to him. Recently he made a request for something sexual I wasn’t in the mood for and I said no. And he demanded sexual service from me and expected me to submit and please him. A part of me thought his dominance and leadership here was very attractive and felt good I also felt rebellious and prideful and strange. I fought him on it and he told me he was going have to teach me my place in the marriage and spanked me. It’s hard to describe. I felt injustice fear pain anger sadness and shock. But I also felt a little secure in my marriage. It was a really intense spanking because it took me a while to stop fighting him and submit. When I did I ended up pleasing him like requested. Part of me felt safe and right about my place and another felt humiliated and angry and belittled. I can’t tell if I feel safe and in happy leadership or humiliated and treated unfairly. I am so conflicted. I can be rebellious so I’ve been spanked a few times. I struggle with submitting to spanking and to sexual requests. It feels wrong if I’m not in the mood but I’m not seeing the whole point. If anyone can help me understand my place in the marriage and how to assimilate better I could use any help. I really do want to be a good submissive wife to him but I’m so new to all of this
Not sure exactly what you’re fishing for but we’re not biting here in this part of the forum (except our tongues, that is).
I’m not sure I’m in the right forum. This is what a friend referred
Hi, while we do address marital issues on here it's typically from a Biblical perspective and I get it that this isn't necessarily going to resonate for you.
I grew up outside of the faith and would not mind taking this discussion into email if you want. I don't know if I can help but I can listen and share experiences.
Megan
megancwinkler at yahoo.com
I'm sure this is going to vary. If you married with an understanding of your role, and an understanding of who your husband is, then submission is really just doing what you said you would....your job.
In business it's really easy to have happy customers, you just do what you said you would. In marriage the complications are usually from people having a different idea of how something would go in real life....misscommunication kind of stuff.
Again, if there was agreement, then it's just doing your job. Otherwise you are either learning each other better, dealing with unforseen aspects or trying to negotiate a different arrangement after the marriage has been begun.
I've been married for many years, but ours was never a marriage that involved discipline, other then self discipline. We each do what is needed and forgive each other for mistakes. Life is challenging, trying to support each other through it all has been our focus.
I don't know if that is any help, but hope you guys continue to work toward understanding and unity in your marriage.
Is your friend on here? Who referred you to BF?
It's one thing following a Christian lifestyle, and another thing being one. Truly being a Christian will help you in your marriage, particularly in being submissive. Where are you at with your relationship with God?
Sorry to butt into the ladies area, but I thought I should reply as site admin to this:
Christian marriage is not about one-way control of the wife by the husband, but is a two-way arrangement. Check out Ephesians 5:22-33. This passage first says that wives are to submit to their husbands "in every thing" - but then goes on to talk in greater length about the responsibilities of husbands to love, care for, and cherish their wives. This two-way arrangement makes for a balanced marriage:
1) Wives must obey their husbands - but husbands must not order them to do something that would be unloving.
2) Husbands must love their wives - but cannot allow themselves to be controlled by their wives, as then their wife would not be in submission to them.
In a marriage running along these lines, a wife will never be abused, and a husband will never be hen-pecked.
The details of what this looks like, especially in the bedroom, will differ between marriages as every couple is different. What one considers loving, another may consider abusive - and we have freedom in the marriage bed to work with our spouse to determine that line for ourselves.
This is the right place to find answers to questions on submission in marriage. However, I think the ladies would be much more comfortable discussing the intimate matters you raise in private. You are able to start private conversations with @julieb and @FollowingHim2 (ladies ministry), and @MeganC has given you her email address. If you truly need advice and support in this area, I would strongly encourage you to contact one or more of these women.
@Obedientgirl1, when most people say "submission", they do not usually mean "physical discipline" etc. They just mean willingly following their husband's lead. They also are not usually referring to sexual acts that make one spouse uncomfortable, but submission in normal everyday matters. The issues you have raised are so extreme and emotive that most people here do not encounter them in their lives, and may find it difficult to know how to respond, particularly on a public forum.
Christian marriage is not about one-way control of the wife by the husband, but is a two-way arrangement. Check out Ephesians 5:22-33. This passage first says that wives are to submit to their husbands "in every thing" - but then goes on to talk in greater length about the responsibilities of husbands to love, care for, and cherish their wives. This two-way arrangement makes for a balanced marriage:
1) Wives must obey their husbands - but husbands must not order them to do something that would be unloving.
2) Husbands must love their wives - but cannot allow themselves to be controlled by their wives, as then their wife would not be in submission to them.
In a marriage running along these lines, a wife will never be abused, and a husband will never be hen-pecked.
The details of what this looks like, especially in the bedroom, will differ between marriages as every couple is different. What one considers loving, another may consider abusive - and we have freedom in the marriage bed to work with our spouse to determine that line for ourselves.
This is the right place to find answers to questions on submission in marriage. However, I think the ladies would be much more comfortable discussing the intimate matters you raise in private. You are able to start private conversations with @julieb and @FollowingHim2 (ladies ministry), and @MeganC has given you her email address. If you truly need advice and support in this area, I would strongly encourage you to contact one or more of these women.
This post is so resonant with stuff that the men here are exploring at the moment. Would it be possible for me to have permission to share it with my husband? Many thanks. Kerry.I've been wanting to weigh in on this page for a few weeks now but I figured I should probably relook at the scriptures and pray and talk to my husband before I shared my understandings of it. So here it is..
Biblical Submission
This is what God has taught me about submission so far, (I say so far because I think I will keep on learning how to be a better and submissive wife till the day I die). This is the kind of stuff though that makes the women in the American Church cringe when they hear it. Women worry about how they will be treated if they submit to their husband like scripture says, but I propose.. What if you just obey God and let Him be your protector? What if you just have faith in Him and His plan for marriage whether or not your husband is a good bible following man(1 Peter 3:1), (1 Peter 4:19)&(1 Peter 5:6-7)?
I approach being a wife from the perspective of how I teach my children. You can only control your actions..you can't force your husband to be a biblical man, whether he is or he isn't. You can't make him do something anymore than my child can make a kid on the playground be nice to him. What you can do is focus on yourself and who God wants YOU to be.. Which is being the best wife that you can be for your husband. Whether he's a believer or an unbeliever..whether he's nice or harsh.. In the end.. we aren't living for ourselves right? No, we are living to please our heavenly master and that means doing what He says. YOU are responsible for your obedience to God. God says that those who love Him keep His commandments(1 John 5:3). Do you believe the scripture that says "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose"(Romans 8:28)? So do you love God? Your husband whether good or bad cannot make you do what God says or not, only you can decide to obey the Lord.
So when it comes to submission to your husband..
1Peter 3:6
as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.
(Another interpretation for Lord in that verse is Master)
(In 1 Peter 2:18 it talks about how a slave should behave towards their earthly masters)
1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.
(Most women in America would say, "but wait! We aren't slaves to our husbands!" I would say, but aren't we? Didn't we choose to willingly serve only him for the rest of his life? To show my point, I point you back to the model of Christ and the church, the specific model for marriage.)
(Here's a few slaves of Christ verses although there's so many more)
*1 Corinthians 6:19-20-bought with a price
*Romans 6:22-23-you have become slaves of God
*Luke 17:5-10-unprofitable servant
*2 Timothy 2:3-4-good soldiers don't entangle themselves with the affairs of this life
I really like the literal translation of the YLT bible (Youngs Literal Translation bible) in this verse.. It puts what the wives are actually supposed to do in perspective.
*Ephesians 5:22-24
The wives! to your own husbands subject yourselves, as to the Lord, because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body, but even as the assembly is subject to Christ, so also are the wives to their own husbands in everything
Since the kind of subjection the church is to have unto Christ is as a slave to a master-I apply that straight over to a wife to husband relationship.
Ask yourself what place did God make for women?
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 - For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
Genesis 2:18 - And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”
(So women in these verses are said to be for man, for companionship and for helping him.)
You are owned by your husband, you are his possession just as the church is Christ's possession. And in turn you are to obey everything that he would ask of you unless you know it to be something that disobeys your heavenly master who is your husband's master as well.
An example of the authority that your husband has over you is the whole chapter of Numbers 30.. (When a woman makes a vow it is bound to her soul. Your husband at any time can break that vow.. A father, only if you're a youth living in his house, can only break your vow on the day he first hears about it. A husband can break your vow at any time.)
So to bring this all together we are submissive to our husbands because we are being submissive to Christ and doing what Christ has asked us to do. If we love Christ we will do what He says, if He is our Lord we will do what He says(1 John 5:3 & Luke 6:46).
Ephesians 6:5-8
Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
You chose for your husband to be your master or lord just as you chose Christ to be your Master or Lord. So to please our God we must do what He says and obey our husbands. This isn't to say if something is bothering you that you can't mention it to your husband but then be willing to accept what your husband decides to do without arguing with him.
The fruit of following this..God tells us the servant who does His will is called His friend so I compare this relationship to us and our husbands..that our actions of obeying God to be submissive like Sarah will cause a positive reaction from our husbands of friendship.
So this is how I've understood these scriptures so far.. Please if anyone has any critiques or additions let me know.
Btw.. I use nkjv and ylt usually for my studying in case anyone was wondering what translations I pulled from. Thanks for reading