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Marriage in England
- Thread starter MemeFan
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But isn't a vow basically a promise to perform a particular action? "I promise to..." blah blah blah (not to insinuate that "blah blah blah" is inconsequential). I see it more like a contract(for lack of a better term). Perhaps we get caught up in the connotation of "vow". Contractual obligations can be anything you want at the beginning when negotiating. A foolish contract is open ended without performance guarantees, e.g "for life". God promised Israel and Judah to bless them but not if they played the whore. enter stage right the phrase, "If you do X then I will do X". I find very few marriage vows with exceptions as they are all all flowery and beautiful without any mention of breaking the contract. So no penalties for non-performance is included. But is that what we are really after? "Happily ever after" is hardly quantifiable or even qualified and on what basis? Many assumptions are hastily made to get to the good part.
So I think about marriage instead as being a purchase and sale agreement in defiance of the popular marriage vow. When the purchase is concluded then she belongs to him, either as his woman or his concubine.
So I think about marriage instead as being a purchase and sale agreement in defiance of the popular marriage vow. When the purchase is concluded then she belongs to him, either as his woman or his concubine.
This might be tangential, but there are some relationships that I would consider "covenental" that don't involve an actual oral or written vow by anyone.
The father-son relationship would be one of these. A father has a responsibility to protect his son, to provide for, lead, and train him up in the ways of the Lord. The son has a reciprocal responsibility to honor his father all his days, to obey him in his youth, and to help care for him in his old age.
Neither father nor son ever made a vow, but the responsibilities of something like a covenant are still there.
The father-son relationship would be one of these. A father has a responsibility to protect his son, to provide for, lead, and train him up in the ways of the Lord. The son has a reciprocal responsibility to honor his father all his days, to obey him in his youth, and to help care for him in his old age.
Neither father nor son ever made a vow, but the responsibilities of something like a covenant are still there.
You are presuming to define a vow as excluding an agreement.
Let’s have a Biblically based definition of a vow.
It’s that simple.
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You know I have the utmost respect for your wisdom and your senior in the faith. I will be happy to have a discussion here about the biblical definition of what a vow is.
But as soon as we finish that conversation I’m going to ask what the relationship of a vow to marriage is.
Is there somewhere we have a biblical definition of what a marriage is? Maybe we have discussed this elsewhere on the forum.
I had made a longer post, but I think that you are right in suggesting a discussion.
This is too important of a topic to leave buried in this thread.
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Lol, apparently I’ve wasted a lot of time on this forum.
Everywhere! That most obvious question has been the topic of a surprising amount of dispute. Start here:
0: When does marriage begin? - Structured discussion
This issue has been thrashed out many times, and never gets anywhere. Instead, everyone keeps reiterating the same points over and over in different ways and becoming more entrenched in their individual views, often without fully understanding the position of those with differing views. I don't...
www.biblicalfamilies.org
I'm perplexed and confused by the fact that you don't seem to regard marriage as an agreement, covenant, or vow.
I realize our modern cultural tradition of publicly exchanging vows, and signing documents with the state isn't what makes a marriage a marriage.
Isaac took Rebecca into the tent and she became his wife. That's pretty straightforward. The two shall be one flesh. What God has joined, let no man put asunder.
I also realize marriage isn't a covenant in exactly the same sense that God made a covenant with Abraham involving walking between halves of cut up animals, or exactly like that God made with Israel at Sinai.
On the other hand, the relationship between God and His people is called a covenant, and the relationship between a man and his wife or wives is said to reflect that of God and Israel, Christ and the Church.
There are two parties in a marriage, and they both have certain rights and responsibilities.
It seems undeniably obvious to me that a marriage is an agreement, and that Torah seems to indicate that virgins under their father's authority are not authorized to independently choose to enter into agreements.
I have the impression that you aren't taking the text seriously, and that your strong emotions are blinding you in regard to this issue.
Then again, some people here at biblical families have some absolutely insane ideas about sex and marriage and this is a forum where we are able to openly discuss such topics. I enjoy the fact that we have the freedom to discuss topics that are normally considered "outside the box".
This is the best argument I’ve heard for marriage being a covenant.
A vow is when a person promises to refrain from doing something. For example, not cutting their hair, not drinking alcohol or eating meat, not getting married.
If a person makes a vow and doesn't keep it, they are punished.
So what Moses was saying in Numbers 30 is that if the father doesn't accept his daughter's vow, she won't be punished if she doesn't keep it.
Marriage is a covenant, not a vow.
If a person makes a vow and doesn't keep it, they are punished.
So what Moses was saying in Numbers 30 is that if the father doesn't accept his daughter's vow, she won't be punished if she doesn't keep it.
Marriage is a covenant, not a vow.