Marriage paperwork?

[JustAGuy]

I thought a prenuptial agreement could be used and lightly customized but then I realized... Aren't they designed to be used in addition to a wedding license? But government wedding license isn't available for a second marriage because our USA government doesn't offer that (yet). So won't this prenup paperwork need to be significantly enhanced to be sure it gave all the normal things a marriage license offers? http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/prenuptial-agreement/

Does anyone have recommended paperwork to use as a starting point for a second marriage?

 

[andrew]

Interesting can of worms you've opened....

The irony of all this is that pre-nups are typically designed to over-ride certain assumptions that are made for married couples (particularly in community property states and common-law (or 'informal') marriage states) and tend to put the parties more in a position of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours", which is basically where you are with a polygamous union anyway, because those assumptions aren't going to be made, because you aren't legally married and can't be if you're legally married to someone else.

Our whole situation (in Anglo/western culture) with the state's involvement in regulating marriage is about to go completely off the rails (which might be good for us). Meanwhile, just about everything you want to agree to with a prospective wife can be covered with ordinary contract agreements, as if it were a business, which it is, it's just that people in our culture don't think that way.

[Quick aside: The word "economics" is from oikos nomos - the law (nomos) of the household(oikos) (Latin: familias; English: family). Our entire science of the management of material resources is an extrapolation of household management.]

Bottom line is: In your situation I don't think you're going to want to use agreements derived from state-licensed relationships. Better to start from scratch.

I'll PM you with some more thoughts.

 

[JustAGuy]

May 7, 2014:

• 
  Although Massachusetts recognizes same-sex marriages, the state does not recognize polygamous ones. Nevertheless, the three women still entered into the three-way relationship. Brynn told The Sun newspaper: “In our eyes we are married. [highlight=yellow]We had specialist lawyers draw up paperwork so our assets are equally divided.[/highlight]” Brynn insists that, despite their novel lifestyle arrangement, that they are “very traditional people” and “perfectly normal.” Massachusetts officials will allow the “throuple” arrangement to stand without interference. http://www.westernjournalism.com/three- ... tts-marry/

 

[steve]

It must be the new math.
I would have thought that 3 women and 1 man would work out to a 4 way relationship and that they would be a quouple.
I thought that with 2 wives, we were a thruple.

"will allow"
sheesh, how incredibly magnanimous!

 

[FollowingHim2]

Steve, it's 3 women in a relationship, no man involved.

 

[JustAGuy]

I found it interesting they mentioned paperwork challenges.

You think their paperwork addressed child custody and child support in the case of a divorce?

 

[steve]

Oh wow, Sarah!
I completely did not read that one slowly enough. I know that the word polygamous includes more types of relationship and that the word polygyny is specific, but I was flying Assumption Airlines that time!

JAG,
it would be interesting to see the contract, a good one for that situation would have to be quite extensive.

 

[andrew]

a good one for that situation would have to be quite extensive.

Only as extensive as the estate you're trying to manage. In most cases it should be pretty straightforward.

 

[FollowingHim]

Note too that in their situation there is no legal marriage to complicate matters. From a legal perspective forming such a contract between three independent people stating that all assets were now jointly owned and specifying how they should be divided in a future event should be relatively straightforward, it's just like forming a business partnership. The complexity would come if you have one state-registered marriage and one or more marriages that are not registered, because then you've got legal obligations that come with the state marriage that may encroach on the provisions you'd like to make for the other wives, and that you may be unable to override with a contract. The simplest legal solution may be to get a state divorce so all marriages are then on an equal footing, however even if your first wife fully agrees logically that the paperwork is meaningless this may still greatly upset her emotionally so is best avoided if possible.

Best advice for single people - start how you intend to carry on, don't get a marriage licence even for the first. Wish I'd thought this through back before we got married, could have saved us the cost of a licence as well as simplifying potential future arrangements.

Even with no marriage contract, some countries recognise legal obligations around asset splitting for de-facto couples after a certain period living together (in New Zealand after you've lived together for 3 years you have exactly the same rights and obligations as if you have a state marriage). I need to read through the rules on this, I'm not sure what issues those could throw up, since they'll be worded on the assumption of monogamy and equal asset splits.

 

[andrew]

Does anyone have recommended paperwork to use as a starting point for a second marriage?

I've been digging into this since you asked the question and have some answers and some documents. If anyone has questions please PM me..

 

[JustAGuy]

I'd like to propose BF make it priority to publish a working draft for people in the USA to use as a starting template.

If none of us feel qualified, then suggest we jointly hire a family practice lawyer experienced in this area (like Diana Adams, etc).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

JAG

...Diana Adams, the other co-president of Open Love NY and a founding partner of a New York City law firm serving LGBTQ and non-traditional clients, has worked with polyamorous households. Sometimes she helps draw up agreements between married poly clients to prevent marital problems from arising because of their sexuality.

The policy concerns for poly community generally regard securing domestic partnerships among the members of a polyamorous relationship. Some of Adams’s poly clients want to opt out of the adultery ground for divorce and do so in out-of-court contracts.

“At this point, polyamorous people are not seeking to redefine marriage as a whole for all Americans,” Adams told NRO. “They are seeking to find stability within existing legal institutions, with creative use of the law as it is now.” http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... ina-durgin

 

[andrew]

I don't know if strictly speaking that's a BF priority, but I'm working on that exact project now and am planning to go public at or around the time of the retreat. PM or email me if you'd like more information.