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My next set of questions
- Thread starter bobnsandy
- Start date
bobnsandy
New Member
Re: My next set of questions II
OK here I go again , from what I have learned form your posts you seem to have a varied church background.
1. does the church you attend accept you PM? or do they know? or do most of you avoid Church membership?
2. How many of you started out from the start in a PM ("married" the same day)
3. Do most of you feel the laws on poly will be changes soon, given the rise of "gay"marrages?
To me it seems the law can't allow one type over another. It make take a court test.
4. How many of you have regular Bible study in your home?
OK here I go again , from what I have learned form your posts you seem to have a varied church background.
1. does the church you attend accept you PM? or do they know? or do most of you avoid Church membership?
2. How many of you started out from the start in a PM ("married" the same day)
3. Do most of you feel the laws on poly will be changes soon, given the rise of "gay"marrages?
To me it seems the law can't allow one type over another. It make take a court test.
4. How many of you have regular Bible study in your home?
brYce
Member
Re: My next set of questions II
2. I'm not sure I understand the question.
3. I doubt that the law will change to allow polygyny, as the forces in this world are evil and forced-monogamy allows Christian men a way out of their indiscretions. Since they don't have to take responsibility for the women then bed, they merely "repent" and move on in their marriage to woman #1. Most men want to have mistresses, not wives.
4. I love to study Scripture every day, but I have to do it online due to my current circumstances.
1. I have been asked to not attend both services of my congregation because of my approval of polygyny.bobnsandy said:
2. I'm not sure I understand the question.
3. I doubt that the law will change to allow polygyny, as the forces in this world are evil and forced-monogamy allows Christian men a way out of their indiscretions. Since they don't have to take responsibility for the women then bed, they merely "repent" and move on in their marriage to woman #1. Most men want to have mistresses, not wives.
4. I love to study Scripture every day, but I have to do it online due to my current circumstances.
1. Yes and no; yes, the leadership knew; we no longer belong. My testimony is here:
"Godly Authority in marriage"
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=376&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
(And I have long avoided 'membership' in any licensed 'church'.)
2. Not many (any?) that I know of. It took me decades just to come to understand that His Word is in fact His Word. But the fact that "what I had been told" about marriage was not at all "what He Wrote" was a big part of that revelation.
3. Hardly. But it doesn't matter, because God ordains marriage, and not Caesar. Any apparent changes in that "law" should be recognized as the trap that they will be. "Make no treaties with the inhabitants of the land" still makes sense -- especially when one understands the point of what it means for a master to give his slave a wife in Exodus 21:1+.
4. We certainly do, whether it's reading, or listening to a torah study on Erev Shabbot or during the day.
"Godly Authority in marriage"
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=376&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
(And I have long avoided 'membership' in any licensed 'church'.)
2. Not many (any?) that I know of. It took me decades just to come to understand that His Word is in fact His Word. But the fact that "what I had been told" about marriage was not at all "what He Wrote" was a big part of that revelation.
3. Hardly. But it doesn't matter, because God ordains marriage, and not Caesar. Any apparent changes in that "law" should be recognized as the trap that they will be. "Make no treaties with the inhabitants of the land" still makes sense -- especially when one understands the point of what it means for a master to give his slave a wife in Exodus 21:1+.
4. We certainly do, whether it's reading, or listening to a torah study on Erev Shabbot or during the day.
Re: My next set of questions II
Lifelong, 3rd generation Seventh-day Adventist, in my case, now disfellowshipped over PM.
I've moved around the country in the last 10 years for work and, with one exception, have had open talks with the pastors of the churches I attend. All have welcomed me to worship. Their reaction as relates to my ministering while in their congregation in my gift of music has varied from "Not until you give it up and reconcile with your (first) wife." to "I'm still your pastor, and will consider you a member of my church and worship team, but won't make you a legal member, so that if you ever DO show up with a second wife, I won't have to deal with it as per official church policy."
Not me. Wondered about it since childhood. Was always told it was wrong, but without proof. In my late 30s before I developed enough self confidence (overcame a lifetime of put-downs by family elders who were, in reality, insecure themselves and both terrified and bewildered by this precocious child's intelligence and constant tough questions. *sigh* ), to stand on my own with a simple 'thus saith the Lord' in the face of family, extended family, church, etc. Especially at the cost of a wife, but that's another tragic story so far, and hopefully not over until a happy ending occurs. My second, current, equally beloved wife, came along a couple of years later. Praise be to Yah!
Logically, this is entirely true. It has even been acknowledged by a US supreme court judge. However, a) the devil isn't interested in justice or logic, any more than the gay movement is (they oppose PM, too.) and b) If it is made legal, it may well have a twist in it, or be an intentional method for the government to gain control of a sector that isn't acknowledging its supremacy. So, I wish it would become legal, but am suspicious of results and motivations if it does -- and I'm not a very, or even sufficiently, suspicious person, according to my wife.
A bit tougher. My wife and I both do a lot. Not as formally as in morning and evening worship with the whole family. There are several reasons for that that would take a while to explain but come down to drawing rather than pushing teenage family members who had their attitudes towards God seriously damaged before entering our home/family. We do go to both church and prayer meeting on a weekly basis, and I attend a men's study/prayer group as well.
Plus all the great, GREAT fellowship with folks here at BF !
bobnsandy said:
Lifelong, 3rd generation Seventh-day Adventist, in my case, now disfellowshipped over PM.
I've moved around the country in the last 10 years for work and, with one exception, have had open talks with the pastors of the churches I attend. All have welcomed me to worship. Their reaction as relates to my ministering while in their congregation in my gift of music has varied from "Not until you give it up and reconcile with your (first) wife." to "I'm still your pastor, and will consider you a member of my church and worship team, but won't make you a legal member, so that if you ever DO show up with a second wife, I won't have to deal with it as per official church policy."
Not me. Wondered about it since childhood. Was always told it was wrong, but without proof. In my late 30s before I developed enough self confidence (overcame a lifetime of put-downs by family elders who were, in reality, insecure themselves and both terrified and bewildered by this precocious child's intelligence and constant tough questions. *sigh* ), to stand on my own with a simple 'thus saith the Lord' in the face of family, extended family, church, etc. Especially at the cost of a wife, but that's another tragic story so far, and hopefully not over until a happy ending occurs. My second, current, equally beloved wife, came along a couple of years later. Praise be to Yah!
Logically, this is entirely true. It has even been acknowledged by a US supreme court judge. However, a) the devil isn't interested in justice or logic, any more than the gay movement is (they oppose PM, too.) and b) If it is made legal, it may well have a twist in it, or be an intentional method for the government to gain control of a sector that isn't acknowledging its supremacy. So, I wish it would become legal, but am suspicious of results and motivations if it does -- and I'm not a very, or even sufficiently, suspicious person, according to my wife.
A bit tougher. My wife and I both do a lot. Not as formally as in morning and evening worship with the whole family. There are several reasons for that that would take a while to explain but come down to drawing rather than pushing teenage family members who had their attitudes towards God seriously damaged before entering our home/family. We do go to both church and prayer meeting on a weekly basis, and I attend a men's study/prayer group as well.
Plus all the great, GREAT fellowship with folks here at BF !
Let me turn the tables on you, Bob.
Ever noticed that the pastors make a big point at weddings about talking about how Christ needs to be the center of your home, life, and marriage?
Ever thought about what he's saying amounts to the fact that you are ALREADY iin a PM of sorts? If Christ is the spiritual husband of both you and your wife, then in a spiritual sense you are already living as sister wives! There's one to wrap your head around.
And once you get peeled off the ceiling from that one, with the whole "man is the head of the woman, and Christ is the head of man, and ..." thing, you as husband aren't head-of-household anyway! You're just middle management. Considering that there are 2 levels above you, make that LOWER middle management.
Remembering all that goes a long way towards keeping me from turning "Patriarchal" into "Puffed-up-archal"! *grin*
Ever noticed that the pastors make a big point at weddings about talking about how Christ needs to be the center of your home, life, and marriage?
Ever thought about what he's saying amounts to the fact that you are ALREADY iin a PM of sorts? If Christ is the spiritual husband of both you and your wife, then in a spiritual sense you are already living as sister wives! There's one to wrap your head around.
And once you get peeled off the ceiling from that one, with the whole "man is the head of the woman, and Christ is the head of man, and ..." thing, you as husband aren't head-of-household anyway! You're just middle management. Considering that there are 2 levels above you, make that LOWER middle management.
Remembering all that goes a long way towards keeping me from turning "Patriarchal" into "Puffed-up-archal"! *grin*
Normal people do not have Bumbleberries.
SweetLissa
SweetLissa
A
Anonymous
Guest
Normal people must have an awful dull life. sigh... we just have one adventure after another. ..wait... i thought we were normal... maybe we arent ..lo Cecil my lord, is there something wrong with us??
Lifelong, 3rd generation Seventh-day Adventist, in my case, now disfellowshipped over PM.
which does not make sense to me. When i was baptized after Cecil and I got married the pastor knew what we both believed and yet said he was fine with me as a member but not Cecil. I wonder what his true feelings and beliefs on PM are.
Lifelong, 3rd generation Seventh-day Adventist, in my case, now disfellowshipped over PM.
which does not make sense to me. When i was baptized after Cecil and I got married the pastor knew what we both believed and yet said he was fine with me as a member but not Cecil. I wonder what his true feelings and beliefs on PM are.
Tlaloc
Member
1.Haven't broached the topic with my church yet in deference to not having a living example of how it works to present. If we don't get to continue with our church we have many believers we can continue to fellowship with that understand polygyny or at least accept us. If I fail to persuade the key members of my church then I will have to small group fellowship until one of my poly acceptable buddies becomes a pastor.
2. Not I
3. In SK the Homestead act technically protects polygyny already, and has for decades its just no one goes to ask their lawyer about it. Winston Blacmore's trial has very high potential to legalize polygamy as the crown case is very bad and has been admitted to be several times. He was taken in as a political move just before elections, the politician that had him arrested knows very well he will get off, but he wanted a big show before election time.
4. Irregular, but fairly often.
2. Not I
3. In SK the Homestead act technically protects polygyny already, and has for decades its just no one goes to ask their lawyer about it. Winston Blacmore's trial has very high potential to legalize polygamy as the crown case is very bad and has been admitted to be several times. He was taken in as a political move just before elections, the politician that had him arrested knows very well he will get off, but he wanted a big show before election time.
4. Irregular, but fairly often.
bobnsandy said:
Fair enough. But are you at this moment BETROTHED to Him? Does that not mean a wife in the making, sorta?
Mainly intended to spark interesting thought. I'm not out to evangelize you to my school of thought.
And I do enjoy your posts and am glad you're still here.
Clarification please?
I always thought of the bride as up to and including the actual wedding. So to my thinking the title bride is worn from engagement (betrothal) till the day she becomes a wife? Right?
Hubby and I had this talk awhile back. It bugs me when the papers post engagement announcements and call her the "bride elect". Sorry, she is a bride until she is a wife.
Any opinions?
SweetLissa
I always thought of the bride as up to and including the actual wedding. So to my thinking the title bride is worn from engagement (betrothal) till the day she becomes a wife? Right?
Hubby and I had this talk awhile back. It bugs me when the papers post engagement announcements and call her the "bride elect". Sorry, she is a bride until she is a wife.
Any opinions?
SweetLissa
And it feels like there was voting involved.
LOL
SweetLissa
LOL
SweetLissa
bobnsandy
New Member
We may be splitting hairs here on the def of bride/wife/bride elect. let me do some searching on a more defined answer.
mark,
repetitively redundantly redundant That is a good one. I think I'll start using it
I can't think of any thing I hate more that repetitious redundantcy, except overuse of the word at at the end of a sentance such as:
" Where are you at?"
mark,
repetitively redundantly redundant That is a good one. I think I'll start using it
I can't think of any thing I hate more that repetitious redundantcy, except overuse of the word at at the end of a sentance such as:
" Where are you at?"
Just found this and I also have questions. Thanks in advance for forming this group - as a happily married Christian man in my 30's, I value your insights and experiences in addressing them. I can see some of the practical benefits of an arrangment like this, but I wonder about the emotional/romantic aspects - and how that might complicate things?
Having grown up in literally in the front pew of church, (my wife was also raised all her life by strong Christians) I have seen just about everything in terms of relationships among believers. The good, the bad, and the ugly (ha!). A few factors that I'm sure have been observed by others that has been in the back of my mind for years now:
1. The apparent lack of strong male spiritual leadership in proportionate numbers to female believers. It's just sad to see the growing numbers of single mothers, and godly women who have enough disernment to NOT jump into relationships - who wind up never getting married because - well because somehow our culture is failing. Somewhere along the way the American Church has failed to capture the hearts of men... where are they?
2. Believers engaging in what I call "serial relationships". Either jumping into a romantic relationship without using wisdom, or going from relationship to relationship (or even marriage to marriage) without seeking any input, or premarital counseling.
3. I didn't come here to get into political arguments, but I know that Jesus warned us of troubled times before his return. I am one of many who see that America has been wandering from it's Constitution and spiritual moorings for decades. With current international events, and fiscal policy - I am beginning to take steps to prepare my family (just me and my wife at the moment) for an emergency situation. Nothing drastic - just stocking extra food items, planting several fruit trees, berries, grapes, and prepping a garden area. I just would never want my family to be in a position where my failure to forecast puts us in a bad situation. In any case, I bring this subject up because again - I wonder what will happen to our church if and when something bad happens?
3. I am blessed with a gorgeous, intelligent, witty wife. I remember people saying, "The first year is always the hardest" - we just looked at each other and were like: "If that was the hardest year - our lives will be cake!". She has jokingly said from time to time - I think I need a wife aroud here to help with stuff. (We both work) But I don't take it seriously. In fact, I think she would really struggle with hurt or jealousy in a poly situation. I'm certainly not going to suggest it! I guess these pre-points begin my real questions for the group:
a) How did this subject come up in your marriage? Did the wife bring it up? How did she respond?
b) How does PDA work? By that I mean, when I come home (or my wife - whichever of us gets home last) the first thing I do is wrap my arms around her and give her a kiss. Not full on making out - just a loving kiss - ask her how her day was. But would that be problematic with sister-wives? Forgive me if that is bad manners to ask - I just am thinking in terms of practicalities.
c) Do you all go out as a family to church? Did you have to leave your home church?
d) Is there a "pecking order" among the wives or are they all considered equals? Again, forgive me if these questions seem insensitive - I'm just wondering about dynamics in terms of things I imagine would come up like: decorations, furnishings, style and taste differences, etc. For example, when we got married our tatse in furniture was different. Fortunately we found a couple stores we both liked and furnished our house with that. But as time went on, my attention went to outdoor projects and the garage - and I just let her do most of the interior stuff. But I could see how bringing in another person could complicate everything. How do you work that stuff out?
e) How do family and in-laws respond?
f) Do the sister-wives take on the husband's name also?
g) Do children attend public schools? Private?
h) how does the courtship process work?
Thanks!
Having grown up in literally in the front pew of church, (my wife was also raised all her life by strong Christians) I have seen just about everything in terms of relationships among believers. The good, the bad, and the ugly (ha!). A few factors that I'm sure have been observed by others that has been in the back of my mind for years now:
1. The apparent lack of strong male spiritual leadership in proportionate numbers to female believers. It's just sad to see the growing numbers of single mothers, and godly women who have enough disernment to NOT jump into relationships - who wind up never getting married because - well because somehow our culture is failing. Somewhere along the way the American Church has failed to capture the hearts of men... where are they?
2. Believers engaging in what I call "serial relationships". Either jumping into a romantic relationship without using wisdom, or going from relationship to relationship (or even marriage to marriage) without seeking any input, or premarital counseling.
3. I didn't come here to get into political arguments, but I know that Jesus warned us of troubled times before his return. I am one of many who see that America has been wandering from it's Constitution and spiritual moorings for decades. With current international events, and fiscal policy - I am beginning to take steps to prepare my family (just me and my wife at the moment) for an emergency situation. Nothing drastic - just stocking extra food items, planting several fruit trees, berries, grapes, and prepping a garden area. I just would never want my family to be in a position where my failure to forecast puts us in a bad situation. In any case, I bring this subject up because again - I wonder what will happen to our church if and when something bad happens?
3. I am blessed with a gorgeous, intelligent, witty wife. I remember people saying, "The first year is always the hardest" - we just looked at each other and were like: "If that was the hardest year - our lives will be cake!". She has jokingly said from time to time - I think I need a wife aroud here to help with stuff. (We both work) But I don't take it seriously. In fact, I think she would really struggle with hurt or jealousy in a poly situation. I'm certainly not going to suggest it! I guess these pre-points begin my real questions for the group:
a) How did this subject come up in your marriage? Did the wife bring it up? How did she respond?
b) How does PDA work? By that I mean, when I come home (or my wife - whichever of us gets home last) the first thing I do is wrap my arms around her and give her a kiss. Not full on making out - just a loving kiss - ask her how her day was. But would that be problematic with sister-wives? Forgive me if that is bad manners to ask - I just am thinking in terms of practicalities.
c) Do you all go out as a family to church? Did you have to leave your home church?
d) Is there a "pecking order" among the wives or are they all considered equals? Again, forgive me if these questions seem insensitive - I'm just wondering about dynamics in terms of things I imagine would come up like: decorations, furnishings, style and taste differences, etc. For example, when we got married our tatse in furniture was different. Fortunately we found a couple stores we both liked and furnished our house with that. But as time went on, my attention went to outdoor projects and the garage - and I just let her do most of the interior stuff. But I could see how bringing in another person could complicate everything. How do you work that stuff out?
e) How do family and in-laws respond?
f) Do the sister-wives take on the husband's name also?
g) Do children attend public schools? Private?
h) how does the courtship process work?
Thanks!
A) I prayed that God would show her this because I was such a wretched husband, I knew that if I brought it up, she would shoot me dead, or laugh herself to death at the thought of me being a strong enough man to be worthy of marriage with two women. She eventually came out of our bedroom during her personal Bible study time holding her Bible and said, “Where did the whole polygamy thing go wrong? I have not found it anywhere, OT or NT.” I told her that she could not find it because it was not in there, but we would study it together so that she and I would know for sure. This forum, the fellowship, and a retreat behind us, finds us here today.
B) I have only DeeAnn, so I don’t know, but I think it does depend on one house or two. Also, my kids get the first come, first serve when I come home, so it might work like that as well. If the older one is doing the dishes, she is the last to get the Daddy hug and tickle.
C) We would not be welcome in the church that we left. I know of some families alternate the husband going to church with each wife alternating weeks at separate churches, many home church due to the way they see the established church today.
D) I do not know of any successful plural family that has any pecking order other than the husband is the head, and the wives are the helpmeets. Lots of sacrifice, lots of communication, and lots of working things out in love. For the most part, if someone is that caught up in decorations and furniture, then the others will probably let that one go for it out of not really caring about the little things like that, the color of the carpet is about the last thing that you will have time to deal with, for better and worse if you know what I mean.
E) Family and in-laws will be a mixed in their reactions. Don’t forget that if they accept you, they eventually have to deal with what their own friends think. They will have to put forth effort to justify your family structure. You will have many that fiercely oppose you, and some that are indifferent, and then those that are supportive, in a split that goes about 80-15-5, and I am probably being generous.
F) Most of the second marriages are not “legal”, meaning no certificate from the state. Some women want the name change, others don’t care, based on the covenant being the important issue, not the paperwork or name. The real issues come from the children of the second, insurance, death benefits, SS payments, and the similar.
G) Family specific. I would say that many homeschool the kids, but did so before becoming plural.
H) Again, specific to the family. Many would advise you to that the best way is to marry a friend, or find someone that you already know that is compatible with your wife. This is a long process. Most would have very strong mixed feelings about the internet poly dating sites. (yes, they do exist, kind of like the wild west of polygamous romantic connections).
The thing to remember is that this is all kept very low key, and not advertised to the world. There have been lost jobs, businesses, and family relationships when this is not received well. The families don’t lie, but they don’t serve it up hot and steaming to the masses either.
Others will comment with their thoughts, I am sure. Welcome to the Biblical Families, err, family.
Paul
B) I have only DeeAnn, so I don’t know, but I think it does depend on one house or two. Also, my kids get the first come, first serve when I come home, so it might work like that as well. If the older one is doing the dishes, she is the last to get the Daddy hug and tickle.
C) We would not be welcome in the church that we left. I know of some families alternate the husband going to church with each wife alternating weeks at separate churches, many home church due to the way they see the established church today.
D) I do not know of any successful plural family that has any pecking order other than the husband is the head, and the wives are the helpmeets. Lots of sacrifice, lots of communication, and lots of working things out in love. For the most part, if someone is that caught up in decorations and furniture, then the others will probably let that one go for it out of not really caring about the little things like that, the color of the carpet is about the last thing that you will have time to deal with, for better and worse if you know what I mean.
E) Family and in-laws will be a mixed in their reactions. Don’t forget that if they accept you, they eventually have to deal with what their own friends think. They will have to put forth effort to justify your family structure. You will have many that fiercely oppose you, and some that are indifferent, and then those that are supportive, in a split that goes about 80-15-5, and I am probably being generous.
F) Most of the second marriages are not “legal”, meaning no certificate from the state. Some women want the name change, others don’t care, based on the covenant being the important issue, not the paperwork or name. The real issues come from the children of the second, insurance, death benefits, SS payments, and the similar.
G) Family specific. I would say that many homeschool the kids, but did so before becoming plural.
H) Again, specific to the family. Many would advise you to that the best way is to marry a friend, or find someone that you already know that is compatible with your wife. This is a long process. Most would have very strong mixed feelings about the internet poly dating sites. (yes, they do exist, kind of like the wild west of polygamous romantic connections).
The thing to remember is that this is all kept very low key, and not advertised to the world. There have been lost jobs, businesses, and family relationships when this is not received well. The families don’t lie, but they don’t serve it up hot and steaming to the masses either.
Others will comment with their thoughts, I am sure. Welcome to the Biblical Families, err, family.
Paul